Good place to be in - enjoy!It's been a couple of weeks since I've been on Head-Fi. It's rather weird, in my perspective, at least, to abstain from a community that I greatly enjoy interacting with. Plus, this forum contains a plethora of information on a(n)obsessionhobby that has been a huge part of my life for the past 12 years, or so.
Anyway, without sounding melodramatic, I've been very satisfied with my headphones (and my gear) at this juncture. Currently, I'm using my Fostex TH900 Mk2, Denon AH-D9200, and my Audeze LCD-XC on a daily basis. I haven't actually found the need (read: desire) to try something new at the moment, and that's, apparently, a good thing.
I'm still looking forward to trying the Rögnir (if it ever hits my shores), but that itch to buy something has been quelled, at least for the time being.
Happy listening, folks!
The Closed-Back Headphone Thread (Plus Comparisons & Reviews)
- Thread starter Malevolent
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@Malevolent for sure, the feeling of contentment is great when you are lucky enough to get there. The rat race of upgrade-itis gets super old for me too....I actually "left" the hobby for over 5 years until "coming back" about a year ago now.
I've also been out of touch for awhile, and a bit pleasantly surprised and shocked by some of the DT-770 love here! 
Like some other folks, I'm also not totally in love with the out-of-box sound on my 250-ohm DT-770's, so I definitely do a bit of tweaking with an EQ, when listening to music with them. Here is a recent diffuse field plot which compares the 250-ohm version with new (red curve) and used (orange curve) pads to a few other headphones that I think are in sort of the neutral-ish range.
https://headphonedatabase.com/oratory/headphones?ids=148,81,76,46,12
The Apple APM (purple curve) is probably too withdrawn in the low treble around 6-7k imo though. So I'd ignore the dips there.
I base my EQ-ing on sort of an average of the two DT-770 curves. And I think the dip at 80 Hz in the bass is likely an artifact of the pads bouncing, so I only do a small correction for that. I do boost the level at around 220 Hz by a couple dB though, to partially correct the dip there. (Though I think that could also be somewhat related to the pads flapping on the measurement rig.)
The upper mids and treble are a little more involved. What I generally look for though there is a sort of a smooth-ish hump between about 2.2k and 20k, sort of like what the other headphones are showing (except for the APM at 6-7k), that doesn't substantially exceed the levels in the midrange at 1000 Hz. That's why I tried to center the 0 dB gridline on the graph at approximately that level. There should also be noticeable notches in the treble at around 9.5, 15, and 20 kHz on Oratory's graphs imo.
Imo, the 250-ohm DT 770 is a bit too bright and harsh-sounding at around 2k in the upper mids, where the other headphones dip down a bit more. And the DT-770 is a bit too withdrawn at around 3.3k, where its curves dip down more. So I make corrections of a couple to a few dBs in both of those spots.
The treble on the DT-770 is also too bright from about 5 to 6 kHz upwards. The response is a bit uneven though. So it kind of takes some playing around to get the levels smooth in that area. The vicinity right around the dip at ~9.5k tends to be the most troublesome for me. Because there should really be a more pronounced dip there imo, like on the other HPs. If I try to lower that area too much though, then I seem to start losing a bit too much detail at around 8k or so.
The 250-ohm DT-770 also doesn't seem to need quite as much correction in the higher treble as it does in the lower treble. YMMV on that though. Because that is a harder area for me to hear. I use the average of the new and worn levels there as my general guide though, like with the rest of the frequency range.
I also like to leave a little bit of a U shape in the DT-770's response, since that's sort of its natural sound signature. So I don't necessarily lower either the bass, or the treble quite as much as the above plots might seem to suggest. I tend to listen at lower volumes though, where a more U-shaped sound works ok. So it's kind of a matter of personal preference.
The frequency response on the 80-ohm version is slightly different than the 250-ohm version btw. Crinacle has plots of both though, so you could possibly use his graphs for the 80-ohm as a basis for some EQ-ing on those.
https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/
When you select the DT-770 Pro on his graph, the plot for 80-ohm version comes up by default, so if you want the 250-ohm version, you have to select it using the options below the graph.
The reason I'm posting this info here btw (rather than in a DT-770 topic), is because the same principles could also be used to EQ other closed-back HPs, if you know the type of sound signatures you want. Oratory's graphing tool also contains a few of the more popular mid and higher prices closed-backs discussed here, such as the Sony Z1R and Z7M2, and Denon D9200. And you can find some others on Crin's page. (Crin's graphing tool is not quite as useful for making comparisons between different headphones though, because it only displays one at a time.)
If you like the 80-ohm DT-770, and have a separate amp than can drive a higher impedance headphone, then you might also give the 250-ohm version a try some time. There isn't a huge difference in sound quality between the two. But I auditioned both of them before getting the 250-ohm. And decided I liked it's sound a little better. It is not as loud though, so may not be as good for lower-impedance portable devices. And the 250-ohm also has a long coiled cable, which is more of a nuisance imho. Aside from that, I think the only difference between the 32, 80 and 250 ohm versions are the voice coils. And the 250 ohm has the thinnest of the three.
The main reason I like these Beyer headphones, btw, is because of their size and comfort, and fairly durable construction. And easily washable and replaceable earpads. So it's less about their out-of-box sound signature, which I frankly find a little bright, grainy and lacking in some warmth to my ears. WIth a little EQ-ing though, they can sound pretty decent imo.
I don't use the TP trick on mine btw, because I figure that would alter the FR too much from the above graphs
Like some other folks, I'm also not totally in love with the out-of-box sound on my 250-ohm DT-770's, so I definitely do a bit of tweaking with an EQ, when listening to music with them. Here is a recent diffuse field plot which compares the 250-ohm version with new (red curve) and used (orange curve) pads to a few other headphones that I think are in sort of the neutral-ish range.
https://headphonedatabase.com/oratory/headphones?ids=148,81,76,46,12
The Apple APM (purple curve) is probably too withdrawn in the low treble around 6-7k imo though. So I'd ignore the dips there.
I base my EQ-ing on sort of an average of the two DT-770 curves. And I think the dip at 80 Hz in the bass is likely an artifact of the pads bouncing, so I only do a small correction for that. I do boost the level at around 220 Hz by a couple dB though, to partially correct the dip there. (Though I think that could also be somewhat related to the pads flapping on the measurement rig.)
The upper mids and treble are a little more involved. What I generally look for though there is a sort of a smooth-ish hump between about 2.2k and 20k, sort of like what the other headphones are showing (except for the APM at 6-7k), that doesn't substantially exceed the levels in the midrange at 1000 Hz. That's why I tried to center the 0 dB gridline on the graph at approximately that level. There should also be noticeable notches in the treble at around 9.5, 15, and 20 kHz on Oratory's graphs imo.
Imo, the 250-ohm DT 770 is a bit too bright and harsh-sounding at around 2k in the upper mids, where the other headphones dip down a bit more. And the DT-770 is a bit too withdrawn at around 3.3k, where its curves dip down more. So I make corrections of a couple to a few dBs in both of those spots.
The treble on the DT-770 is also too bright from about 5 to 6 kHz upwards. The response is a bit uneven though. So it kind of takes some playing around to get the levels smooth in that area. The vicinity right around the dip at ~9.5k tends to be the most troublesome for me. Because there should really be a more pronounced dip there imo, like on the other HPs. If I try to lower that area too much though, then I seem to start losing a bit too much detail at around 8k or so.
The 250-ohm DT-770 also doesn't seem to need quite as much correction in the higher treble as it does in the lower treble. YMMV on that though. Because that is a harder area for me to hear. I use the average of the new and worn levels there as my general guide though, like with the rest of the frequency range.
I also like to leave a little bit of a U shape in the DT-770's response, since that's sort of its natural sound signature. So I don't necessarily lower either the bass, or the treble quite as much as the above plots might seem to suggest. I tend to listen at lower volumes though, where a more U-shaped sound works ok. So it's kind of a matter of personal preference.
The frequency response on the 80-ohm version is slightly different than the 250-ohm version btw. Crinacle has plots of both though, so you could possibly use his graphs for the 80-ohm as a basis for some EQ-ing on those.
https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/
When you select the DT-770 Pro on his graph, the plot for 80-ohm version comes up by default, so if you want the 250-ohm version, you have to select it using the options below the graph.
The reason I'm posting this info here btw (rather than in a DT-770 topic), is because the same principles could also be used to EQ other closed-back HPs, if you know the type of sound signatures you want. Oratory's graphing tool also contains a few of the more popular mid and higher prices closed-backs discussed here, such as the Sony Z1R and Z7M2, and Denon D9200. And you can find some others on Crin's page. (Crin's graphing tool is not quite as useful for making comparisons between different headphones though, because it only displays one at a time.)
If you like the 80-ohm DT-770, and have a separate amp than can drive a higher impedance headphone, then you might also give the 250-ohm version a try some time. There isn't a huge difference in sound quality between the two. But I auditioned both of them before getting the 250-ohm. And decided I liked it's sound a little better. It is not as loud though, so may not be as good for lower-impedance portable devices. And the 250-ohm also has a long coiled cable, which is more of a nuisance imho. Aside from that, I think the only difference between the 32, 80 and 250 ohm versions are the voice coils. And the 250 ohm has the thinnest of the three.
The main reason I like these Beyer headphones, btw, is because of their size and comfort, and fairly durable construction. And easily washable and replaceable earpads. So it's less about their out-of-box sound signature, which I frankly find a little bright, grainy and lacking in some warmth to my ears. WIth a little EQ-ing though, they can sound pretty decent imo.
I don't use the TP trick on mine btw, because I figure that would alter the FR too much from the above graphs
Last edited:
soundblast75
Headphoneus Supremus
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I feel fortunate to have the Stellia, Z1R, and D9200 at the moment. Of course, at this level they are all competent cans and I could live with any one of them as my only headphone. But, to my preferences:
Comfort: Z1R > Stellia >>> 9200
Build: Z1R > Stellia = 9200
Treble: Stellia = 9200 > Z1R
Mids: 9200 = Stellia > Z1R
Bass: ? Hardest to answer….I feel the Z1R has the most effortless bass, but the Stellia and 9200 are tighter, cleaner. The Denon has the best slam/impact. The Z1R is the loosest, most wooly of the bunch, but for me there’s a sense of heft it conveys that the others simply do not.
I had the ZMF VC earlier this year, but found it to be too veiled for my tastes. I like all these cans, if I could only pick one it would be between the Z1R and the 9200. The Z1R is significantly more comfortable on me, so that might be the decision maker in my case.
Terriero
Headphoneus Supremus
I miss you a lot. I'm very glad that you are ok. I though that with less COVID restrictions in your area, you started to do your job outside and didn't have time to visit frequently the forum... (I also though about a future little Tim)It's been a couple of weeks since I've been on Head-Fi. It's rather weird, in my perspective, at least, to abstain from a community that I greatly enjoy interacting with. Plus, this forum contains a plethora of information on a(n)obsessionhobby that has been a huge part of my life for the past 12 years, or so.
Anyway, without sounding melodramatic, I've been very satisfied with my headphones (and my gear) at this juncture. Currently, I'm using my Fostex TH900 Mk2, Denon AH-D9200, and my Audeze LCD-XC on a daily basis. I haven't actually found the need (read: desire) to try something new at the moment, and that's, apparently, a good thing.
I'm still looking forward to trying the Rögnir (if it ever hits my shores), but that itch to buy something has been quelled, at least for the time being.
Happy listening, folks!
Come here (to your thread
) once a week or something like that... There are some people that needs Malevolent closedbacks knowledge 
Terriero
Headphoneus Supremus
Thank you very much for sharing your impressions about your headphones. Will be a lot appreciated for some people that are considering one TOTL closed backs but is difficult for them to decide.
I feel fortunate to have the Stellia, Z1R, and D9200 at the moment. Of course, at this level they are all competent cans and I could live with any one of them as my only headphone. But, to my preferences:
Comfort: Z1R > Stellia >>> 9200
Build: Z1R > Stellia = 9200
Treble: Stellia = 9200 > Z1R
Mids: 9200 = Stellia > Z1R
Bass: ? Hardest to answer….I feel the Z1R has the most effortless bass, but the Stellia and 9200 are tighter, cleaner. The Denon has the best slam/impact. The Z1R is the loosest, most wooly of the bunch, but for me there’s a sense of heft it conveys that the others simply do not.
I had the ZMF VC earlier this year, but found it to be too veiled for my tastes. I like all these cans, if I could only pick one it would be between the Z1R and the 9200. The Z1R is significantly more comfortable on me, so that might be the decision maker in my case.
Shane D
Headphoneus Supremus
They are beautiful.I also think the place of contentment is what we ultimately want and I'm thinking i might have reached it every time i reach for these, its pure music, how can anyone want more
soundblast75
Headphoneus Supremus
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ARCTIC Magnus is here for TH900IIs, big improvement in treble mostly, no more harshness.
I thought Fostex sounded like the most open closed cans I've heard, but Rognir is just on another level of openness and in every other regard, literally zero boxy feeling
I thought Fostex sounded like the most open closed cans I've heard, but Rognir is just on another level of openness and in every other regard, literally zero boxy feeling
Attachments
Interesting to see the Arctic cable - and especially that it's flush with the cup. Does it actually "click" into place?
I'm also becoming intrigued by the Rognir (even though I definitely don't need any more headphones). More impressions would be welcome, and if you're able to compare with ZMF VC that would be especially interesting.
soundblast75
Headphoneus Supremus
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I wish i could compare, but maybe only in October at Canjam London
It clicks and its tailor made for it!
Fantastic cable.
Yet, difference with Rögnir is staggering, especially if you listen to Classical and Jazz its quite a revelation, one is the best hall in the world, the other a decent studio with slightly harsh treble speakers and enclosed stage. Will be doing a mod on Fostex and treble will improve, i can live with it, but if you've heard better including IE900s etc its like.. Why??
Good to hear on both fronts! I do like my Plussound cable for my Th900 but my OCD side is irked the termination isn't flush with the cup.I wish i could compare, but maybe only in October at Canjam London
It clicks and its tailor made for it!
Fantastic cable.
Yet, difference with Rögnir is staggering, especially if you listen to Classical and Jazz its quite a revelation, one is the best hall in the world, the other a decent studio with slightly harsh treble speakers and enclosed stage. Will be doing a mod on Fostex and treble will improve, i can live with it, but if you've heard better including IE900s etc its like.. Why??
For the Rögnir, did you order directly from them?
I would agree with almost everything you are saying, and that is a rarity for me
I feel fortunate to have the Stellia, Z1R, and D9200 at the moment. Of course, at this level they are all competent cans and I could live with any one of them as my only headphone. But, to my preferences:
Comfort: Z1R > Stellia >>> 9200
Build: Z1R > Stellia = 9200
Treble: Stellia = 9200 > Z1R
Mids: 9200 = Stellia > Z1R
Bass: ? Hardest to answer….I feel the Z1R has the most effortless bass, but the Stellia and 9200 are tighter, cleaner. The Denon has the best slam/impact. The Z1R is the loosest, most wooly of the bunch, but for me there’s a sense of heft it conveys that the others simply do not.
I had the ZMF VC earlier this year, but found it to be too veiled for my tastes. I like all these cans, if I could only pick one it would be between the Z1R and the 9200. The Z1R is significantly more comfortable on me, so that might be the decision maker in my case.
Mind you this is only my opinion, but there is nothing incredibly off on the Stellia treble, but with critical listening there is a slight metallic something to the treble fringe. For me the Stellia was fantastic once I added an Arctic Cables Signum+ cable into the mix, that combo was what was the deciding factor when I had the head to head with the VC(like cable). I cannot comment on the Z1R, but on your list the D9200 is the only one remaining.I also have a modded TH900 which I also think is an excellent headphone.
Glad the Magnus is working for you...I am paired with the D9200 as I type.
I concur, the Stellia can have a slightly metallic nature to the treble. On some tracks I've found that it adds a neat "shimmering" quality that's euphonic and enjoyable. But, on a couple I've encountered tracks the metallic quality was actually a little distracting. Either way, nothing off per se, just a slight flavor that it adds.I would agree with almost everything you are saying, and that is a rarity for me
I also have a modded TH900 which I also think is an excellent headphone.
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