[Luminette]

Late to the thread

I have to contest WitTR being overrated - maybe it's just that you don't get it? It's pretty unlikely for them to have no foundation in their rising to respected / somewhat-famed status - especially given the number of BM acts there are that are unknown due to the reasons you gave

WitTR make really great choices on progressions - everything feels perfectly executed

I'll also state that I tend not to like straight black metal. But BM involving prog / ambience / avant / fusions of anything else are usually winners for me

Examples-

Dodheimsgard - Supervillain Outcast
Tvangeste - Firestorm
Kadenzza - The Second Renaissance
Ulver - Bergtatt (and how old this one is and already they were leaving the molds behind)
Vesania - God the Lux

and countless more involving more ambient spins

like Blut Aus Nordd - The Work Which Transforms God


I'll take Gorgoroth because I think Gaahl is a great person and I support what is being expressed / what agenda is being carried out in the music of Gorgoroth.

I just think that stale BM being not-progressive is so inaffectual. I don't think that it is too much to ask that they produce something that has more thought and creativity to it than for constant repetition - and I am not really complaining about droning guitars or blast beats that last a long time - it's just that the whole structure of the stuff tends to be hard to enjoy if you have plenty of things with more integrity to choose from.

I guess I look at BM as something that is a good core but shouldn't be limited to that confinement of style. Let alone when it is obviously (through existing acts) so possible to blend it with other things to create something even more useful. That is, assuming it's BM with an agenda and not just BM because the musicians are just fanboys reproducing stuff.

Sorry to bring such elitism in an area where it seems likely that I disapprove of most of what is enjoyed here, but, in the effort of expansion and the right to my own voice, voila

 

[Luminette]

Also, for anyone who seems somewhat similar to my angle on things - check out these guys I found a few days ago (in the new arrivals section on The End Records <-- how much BM I've discovered through them as a distributor!)

MySpace.com - From Ashes - FI - Metal / Gothic / Classical - www.myspace.com/fromashesmetal

 

[ezkcdude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminette /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just think that stale BM being not-progressive is so inaffectual. I don't think that it is too much to ask that they produce something that has more thought and creativity to it than for constant repetition - and I am not really complaining about droning guitars or blast beats that last a long time - it's just that the whole structure of the stuff tends to be hard to enjoy if you have plenty of things with more integrity to choose from.

Can you give us examples of the "not-progressive" black metal bands that you find "hard to enjoy"?

 

[ezkcdude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminette /img/forum/go_quote.gif MySpace.com - From Ashes - FI - Metal / Gothic / Classical - www.myspace.com/fromashesmetal

This is not black metal!

 

[Luminette]

Ahh, true, but it is very close in a folk-like surrounding flavor to it, among other similarities. Apologies, then, for being off-topic - had only meant to share a new find

As for examples of straight BM that I dislike.. let me go hunt some down - I'll look through some of the posts on this thread and grab youtube names of a few bands I know to not be what I like

Ahh, on checking out every single name mentioned, it actually seems that most nothing mentioned here yet is actually straight black metal. And that most people here are actually fans of forward-thinking BM. I actually like a heavy amount of bands mentioned previously.

Jeez, looking around it is actually hard to find straight black metal. I see plenty of things listed as BM that hardly even contain recognizable traces of

So - to clarify what would be an example of confined BM that I don't like - we'll say repetitive and simplistic, with songs being so very similar throughout the whole album, and/or the artist's discography? Something made up only of the prime characteristics that are black metal, and nothing else.

 

[ezkcdude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminette /img/forum/go_quote.gif So - to clarify what would be an example of confined BM that I don't like - we'll say repetitive and simplistic, with songs being so very similar throughout the whole album, and/or the artist's discography? Something made up only of the prime characteristics that are black metal, and nothing else.

Do you like any of the following (all of which I consider black metal):

Gris
Maniac Butcher
Silencer
Lugubrum

 

[Luminette]

Already a fan of Silencer, checking out the others now, I've heard Lugubrum's name before I think.

Gris sounding nice.

Hmm, Lugub is sounding great - lot of nice prog and instrumentation going around.. drumming also particularly stuck out at me from the page you linked. Dynamics are in play here more than usual in BM.

Maniac Butcher reminds me some of Venom with that old heavy metal style - ahh, which just shifted into something I'd more call black metal. Silly that the band that put out an album with the genre coining term does not represent the popular definition of black metal?

I'm interested in listening to more of all of these artists after having listened to a few tracks each.

As it is, I don't consider any of these bands not to be black metal - but I consider them to be more than black metal. The black metal is of course there, but the ambient aspects are frequent as well as hints of other characteristics. Ambience (what a blanket term) surely serves as the most common splash with Black Metal but depending on the band, it can be as present if not more than the BM side of things - and so I think it's a distinction to be made

Perhaps the issue is that the popular definition of black metal is not the truth of black metal - but this becomes a very heavily contested debate on what it is really supposed to encompass.. becoming muddier by the contrasts of it's use in different time periods.

Perhaps I could actually say that I prefer modern black metal (that is a result of forward thinking) or older black metal that was forward thinking / abstract for it's time period? I am not sure, though - there are examples of sterility and originality in BM from start to present

 

[ezkcdude]

Maybe you're just discovering the fact that black metal is a broader genre than you thought. That's a good thing.

 

[Luminette]

 

[MaZa]

Just listened the Silencer. That is good stuff! Though it does suffer from same thing as Demilich, the singers style gets on my nerves quite badly, but I can endure it since the music is great.

 

[ezkcdude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just listened the Silencer. That is good stuff! Though it does suffer from same thing as Demilich, the singers style gets on my nerves quite badly, but I can endure it since the music is great.

You see, I completely "get" that this style of "singing" (if we can call it that) is offputting for the uninitiated. If you played Silencer to someone off the street, they'd think you were crazy. However, there are many people for whom this style of ****ed up vocals is the thing. You know what I mean? I actually seek this stuff out, so I know what I'm getting myself into. It's one of those things that you either love or hate - but there's not much middle ground.

 

[MaZa]

I dont mind having wierd... singing (or should we say, cat being sodomized?

) but when it stands out too much it distracts me from the flow of the music. I think this is such case. The title track Death Pierce Me is awesome song, one of the best atmospheric blackmetal songs I have heard, but the singer always tries to rip me back awake from my trance instead of sinking me deeper which it SHOULD in this type of music.

 

[Gazza]

I got Solefald's The Circular Drain in the mail the other day. Not only was it individually signed and numbered but it came with a small notice identifying me (my name was hand written) as part of the Solefald hardcore for having bought the CD.

Cool.

 

[japc]

I agree that Silencer vocals get too much in the way of the music. And that's a shame because music is top notch.

 

[MONVMENTVM]

Imo Enslaved got a step back from their progressive Rock stuff on Ruun to some more atmospheric aproach of progressive Black Metal.