[kukrisna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks, I guess that will be my next headphone purchase then. For a long time I was thinking about getting a HD600 instead, but as of late I'm really starting to think those might be way too coloured for me.

i dont particularly like telling others what to do unless they ask me to, but in this case, i would like to suggest to you that if it's at all possible, try what you can before you settle down because that's the only way you'll really end up knowing what you like

 

[kukrisna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FourierMakesFunk /img/forum/go_quote.gif As it should be! Here here! (though just looking at the internals of either, we can safely say the HD600 is technically superior, as this is ignoring how they sound) I love my neapolitan mandolin. I bought it in Italy from the maker. It's a piece of sh!t (not that bad, but it is a cheap one used as a display model). However, I've tried other expensive mandolins, but none feel as good or give me the sound I like, so I stick with good old Giovanni (because every loved instrument needs a name, right? Maybe my Grados have earned a name by now...) until I can get my hands on some antique neapolitans... or not.

mandolins sound so neat! i've always wanted to pick up either the mandolin or the banjo to mess around with...

and yes...there are some things that no matter how puzzling or kitsch or downright bad they may seem to others, we end up falling in love with them and that's what matters - i will cheers to that!

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukrisna /img/forum/go_quote.gif i dont particularly like telling others what to do unless they ask me to, but in this case, i would like to suggest to you that if it's at all possible, try what you can before you settle down because that's the only way you'll really end up knowing what you like

I know, but I'm coming to this based on quite a bit of information and some experience at least. I would love to try the HD600 if I had the chance to (but we all know how difficult it is to get the opportunity to "try before you buy" with headphones). I'm far from completely convinced the SA5000 is for me either, I'm actually afraid the way they handle highs might sound too unnatural to me (one of my gripes with the DT880 too), but I do feel that I have to try them.

Oh, and rest assured, I'm not 'settling down', I'll keep on trying different things in the future to see if they give me new perspectives on music. (Future plans include: AKG K1000, AKG K340, HD800, hi-end Stax, etc. And that's just the headphones...)

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know, but I'm coming to this based on quite a bit of information and some experience at least. I would love to try the HD600 if I had the chance to (but we all know how difficult it is to get the opportunity to "try before you buy" with headphones). I'm far from completely convinced the SA5000 is for me either, I'm actually afraid the way they handle highs might sound too unnatural to me (one of my gripes with the DT880 too), but I do feel that I have to try them. Oh, and rest assured, I'm not 'settling down', I'll keep on trying different things in the future to see if they give me new perspectives on music. (Future plans include: AKG K1000, AKG K340, HD800, hi-end Stax, etc. And that's just the headphones...)

Not sure you will like the SA5000. I know most are turned off by the lack of engagement with the DT48. It's more like viewing the music instead of being apart of it. In that sense the SA5000 are better. The DT48 is faster, more detailed with better resolve and clarity. And as good as the SA5000 is will seperation, the DT48 does it better. You will find the SA5000 to be less natural sounding with a emphasis in the treble region.

 

[sengman]

sorry to jump in again..

i'm looking for natural, good soundstage, detailed, balanced cans..
and i read what you all wonderful guys posted here and it seems that it's a suitable cans for me..
i am thinking to buy one , DT 48 e , for the price of $400

would it be proper price? i dont know about the actual street price.
would it be ok to drive it using Xcan V8? or even Head direct EF1?
anyone tried it before?

 

[kool bubba ice]

You can buy used between 100-275. New around 330 from B&H. The V8 should be fine.. Tubes do give them some warmth. Neutral timbre and tone... Yes, the DT48e should be for you.

 

[PaulyT]

Hi all! Well, I spent some more time with these and while I do appreciate the excellent noise isolation, and perhaps more neutral tone of these compared to my K701s with some recordings, they're just not for me for general use. Mine are up for sale. It's been fun to compare, though!

Thanks, all.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulyT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi all! Well, I spent some more time with these and while I do appreciate the excellent noise isolation, and perhaps more neutral tone of these compared to my K701s with some recordings, they're just not for me for general use. Mine are up for sale. It's been fun to compare, though! Thanks, all.

Sorry to hear it, but glad that you gave them a try. What is your main complaint against them? What was lacking most in them? (Just so other people can get a better idea too.)

 

[PaulyT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry to hear it, but glad that you gave them a try. What is your main complaint against them? What was lacking most in them? (Just so other people can get a better idea too.)

For me, with mainly classical music, it just didn't quite have the clarity and resolution I am looking for, things seemed a little (just a little) muddled in some middle ranges (bass was nice and tight though, I did like that). I noticed it most with piano music, being a pianist myself, I just couldn't quite make out all the details of the "small" noises of the piano that I can hear with the K701 - the hammer attack, some of the resonances, even the movements of the pedal mechanisms. The soundstage also wasn't quite as broad or deep, which I think is connected, detail/resolution being the key to that as well IMHO. Sorry, again I'm bumping up into language here, not sure exactly how to describe what I mean.

And I'm being really picky, and admit that this may well boil down to personal taste. I agree that the K701 can be bright, and there are some recordings that do sound better with the DT48, in terms of tone/timbre. But in others I felt the DT48 lacked some on the high end. And in some ways it's easier to hear certain things with the DT48, simply because the noise isolation really gets you in there with little to distract - which is exactly what a monitor style HP should do. But I typically listen in a quiet room (home office) where this isn't a big issue.

And I don't mean that the K701 is necessarily my "holy grail", but it's what I've liked best of the relatively few things I tried so far (also HD580), and don't have the $$ to try the more pricey gear ATM. Plus as I mentioned before, I've worked on my tube amp to be a good match with the K701, so maybe it's not surprising that it doesn't match the DT48 as well. I'm just not up for redoing all of that rolling...

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulyT /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me, with mainly classical music, it just didn't quite have the clarity and resolution I am looking for, things seemed a little (just a little) muddled in some middle ranges (bass was nice and tight though, I did like that). I noticed it most with piano music, being a pianist myself, I just couldn't quite make out all the details of the "small" noises of the piano that I can hear with the K701 - the hammer attack, some of the resonances, even the movements of the pedal mechanisms. The soundstage also wasn't quite as broad or deep, which I think is connected, detail/resolution being the key to that as well IMHO. Sorry, again I'm bumping up into language here, not sure exactly how to describe what I mean. And I'm being really picky, and admit that this may well boil down to personal taste. I agree that the K701 can be bright, and there are some recordings that do sound better with the DT48, in terms of tone/timbre. But in others I felt the DT48 lacked some on the high end. And in some ways it's easier to hear certain things with the DT48, simply because the noise isolation really gets you in there with little to distract - which is exactly what a monitor style HP should do. But I typically listen in a quiet room (home office) where this isn't a big issue. And I don't mean that the K701 is necessarily my "holy grail", but it's what I've liked best of the relatively few things I tried so far (also HD580), and don't have the $$ to try the more pricey gear ATM. Plus as I mentioned before, I've worked on my tube amp to be a good match with the K701, so maybe it's not surprising that it doesn't match the DT48 as well. I'm just not up for redoing all of that rolling...

I disagree in terms of detail/resolution. I do agree on the sound stage.. Have you tried the 48 with a SS amp? & you have the 200 ohm version? I think Erik described those as sounding not as good as the 25 ohm version. Maybe he can speak on this.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulyT /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me, with mainly classical music, it just didn't quite have the clarity and resolution I am looking for, things seemed a little (just a little) muddled in some middle ranges (bass was nice and tight though, I did like that). I noticed it most with piano music, being a pianist myself, I just couldn't quite make out all the details of the "small" noises of the piano that I can hear with the K701 - the hammer attack, some of the resonances, even the movements of the pedal mechanisms. The soundstage also wasn't quite as broad or deep, which I think is connected, detail/resolution being the key to that as well IMHO. Sorry, again I'm bumping up into language here, not sure exactly how to describe what I mean. And I'm being really picky, and admit that this may well boil down to personal taste. I agree that the K701 can be bright, and there are some recordings that do sound better with the DT48, in terms of tone/timbre. But in others I felt the DT48 lacked some on the high end. And in some ways it's easier to hear certain things with the DT48, simply because the noise isolation really gets you in there with little to distract - which is exactly what a monitor style HP should do. But I typically listen in a quiet room (home office) where this isn't a big issue. And I don't mean that the K701 is necessarily my "holy grail", but it's what I've liked best of the relatively few things I tried so far (also HD580), and don't have the $$ to try the more pricey gear ATM. Plus as I mentioned before, I've worked on my tube amp to be a good match with the K701, so maybe it's not surprising that it doesn't match the DT48 as well. I'm just not up for redoing all of that rolling...

Thanks a lot for sharing this! I more or less concur with KBI's comment though. Although separation really goes hand in hand with width of soundstage of the headphones (and also amp and source) and I know the DT-48 is at a disadvantage there, it's hard for me to see them as less detailed than the K701. That said, I haven't heard the K701, just its predecessor the K500. But, although the K701 is probably more detailed than the K500. There's such a huge gap in detail retrieval between the K500 and the (my) DT-48, that I can't ever imagine the K701 bridging that. (I also have the DT-48 200 ohm version, by the way.)

So I guess there are three possible answers:
1. We have different ears. (Happens all the time.

)
2. There was a synergy issue. It could be that the 200 ohm performs less wel with tubes than with solid state.
3. (And you probably don't want to hear this.) Since you said that your DT-48 was probably never used before it could well be that they went through insufficient burn-in. I can certainly well imagine drivers that are built like those of the DT-48 needing very extended burn-in times to show them at their best. But we haven't got much of a handle on this issue yet, because most of us are buying them used.

But apart from the detail issue, I can well imagine someone not liking how the DT-48 presents music. I can certainly say it took me quite a while to get used to them, and I would still maintain that probably 95% of HiFi headphone users won't like them. They may appreciate them for what they can do, but really getting enjoyment out of them...I think that will never be a large group of people.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks a lot for sharing this! I more or less concur with KBI's comment though. Although separation really goes hand in hand with width of soundstage of the headphones (and also amp and source) and I know the DT-48 is at a disadvantage there, it's hard for me to see them as less detailed than the K701. That said, I haven't heard the K701, just its predecessor the K500. But, although the K701 is probably more detailed than the K500. There's such a huge gap in detail retrieval between the K500 and the (my) DT-48, that I can't ever imagine the K701 bridging that. (I also have the DT-48 200 ohm version, by the way.) So I guess there are three possible answers: 1. We have different ears. (Happens all the time. ) 2. There was a synergy issue. It could be that the 200 ohm performs less wel with tubes than with solid state. 3. (And you probably don't want to hear this.) Since you said that your DT-48 was probably never used before it could well be that they went through insufficient burn-in. I can certainly well imagine drivers that are built like those of the DT-48 needing very extended burn-in times to show them at their best. But we haven't got much of a handle on this issue yet, because most of us are buying them used. But apart from the detail issue, I can well imagine someone not liking how the DT-48 presents music. I can certainly say it took me quite a while to get used to them, and I would still maintain that probably 95% of HiFi headphone users won't like them. They may appreciate them for what they can do, but really getting enjoyment out of them...I think that will never be a large group of people.

But if 95% don't like them for music..(just making my case) for music, why the glamour for 'neutrality' & 'accuracy'? When a pleasing sound is more to their likings.. After listening to my pair 90% of the time since last fall, the bass on my other headphones sound bloated, fake, & manufactured.. Even my bass shy Technic 810 has a little bass boost & bloat.. The only exception would be my SA5000.. Major fan boy statement, detractors hold on tight..

It's hard to listen to any of my other headphones for any amount of time, cause I am losing out on the music, & feels synthetic to me. I feel they are not being truthful to me in the way the music is being presented.. So this headphone has killed my upgraditis.. The only exceptions would be the CD900ST, W5000, HD800, K1000, electro's, Q10 & the Legendary HP1/2 PS1..

About burn in.. I'm not a 100% believer in burn in.. But there is a minor difference between my 91 48e 25 ohm & 08 48e 25 ohm. 91 model. More refined, a bit smoother.. The 08 seems to have a artificial/etended crispness to it.. & a bit edgy, & generally feels tight.. Even though.. It's not enough to make a person who doesn't care for the sound to like it IMO..

About separation. I used to think size of the sound stage was the only thing that mattered. My DT48 tell me another story.. Resolve & speed have just as much impact as the sound stage size.. My DT48 seperates instruments more convincingly then the MDR F1, which surprised me.

On a side note.. I get no ringing in my ears when I listen to my DT48 at high volume. Any reason for this?

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif On a side note.. I get no ringing in my ears when I listen to my DT48 at high volume. Any reason for this?

The highs are quite rolled off, this is why. Try to listen to some high-hats with them and any other headphones (K702, SA500, K271S...), you'd notice it right away. May be all other phones are wrong and only DT48 makes it right. I agree on K701 higher resolution, they seem to have easier distinguishable micro details, may be it's soundstage and better separation between notes and not the real details, but at least this is how it's perceived. And no offense, but I would dare to say that I've heard the same and sometimes better details with K271S. And I've done A LOT of A/B with these two. Again could be just the hotter treble and better soundstage.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif The highs are quite rolled off, this is why. Try to listen to some high-hats with them and any other headphones (K702, SA500, K271S...), you'd notice it right away. May be all other phones are wrong and only DT48 makes it right. I agree on K701 higher resolution, they seem to have easier distinguishable micro details, may be it's soundstage and better separation between notes and not the real details, but at least this is how it's perceived. And no offense, but I would dare to say that I've heard the same and sometimes better details with K271S. And I've done A LOT of A/B with these two. Again could be just the hotter treble and better soundstage.

No arguments.. Just basing it off the headphones I owned.. Maybe I should rebuy another 701/2 & see..But the SA5000 is noticeably more detailed then the 701.. I had both at the time.. & the DT48 is more detailed then my SA5000, especially in the mid range.. That's how I came to that conclusion. The a model seems to have severe high roll off, if I remember correctly.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif No arguments.. Just basing it off the headphones I owned.. Maybe I should rebuy another 701/2 & see..But the SA5000 is noticeably more detailed then the 701.. I had both at the time.. & the DT48 is more detailed then my SA5000, especially in the mid range.. That's how I came to that conclusion. The a model seems to have severe high roll off, if I remember correctly.

SA5000 has more details but more recessed (neutral) mids, I guess that might confuse for a better resolution in the midrange, don't know. I just base all that observations on E model I owned, may be A is different.