[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees /img/forum/go_quote.gif PA? A symphony orchestra has plenty of warmth. The warm timbre of the wood instruments is very present. Nothing cold to it. Not extremely detailed either for that matter. The hyper detail is usually something that is added in the recording, not something you'll hear in a live concert.

Yeah, forgot about the wood. I can see wood and warmth..

 

[kool bubba ice]

On a side note, isn't digital 'cold.' and analog 'warm?' Maybe hearing a LP version of a live event will make the instruments sound 'warm' and 'real' to the listener using the DT48.

 

[Ishcabible]

But if it isn't warm live, I doubt it can get much warmer through a recording...

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukrisna /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi All, Sorry it took so long to get back here. Long story short, I ended up returning the DT48E, and actually not buying anything to fill its niche. I don't record often enough to warrant another headphone, and I don't have a very complicated setup, so I figured from now on, I'll just use my Shure E4 as I tend to edit with my monitors anyway. That being said, the DT48E was rather detailed at the recital. It was flat and neutral, if you want to call it that, but not natural in any sense as the highs went up farther than what I naturally perceived, and they did not present the cello as warm as I actually heard it. The piano sounded rather convincing however. But as I've mentioned before, these phones did not wow me to the point of wanting to keep them around. They're great at what they were meant for, but for my needs for recording, and my needs for aural pleasure, they did not fit the bill. And don't get me wrong, they're not bad. Just not what I needed or was looking for. -Keith

If your only other phone is HD600, that could explain such reaction.
DT48 may certainly sound cold in comparison to those. Some phones that I own or used to, 2005 DT770, 2005 DT880 250Ohm, K702, all sounded colder than DT48E. Its warmth/coldness is somewhere on par with SA5000 and ER4S, at times I even find them a bit warmer than those two. That's with standard impedance jack, adding 120Ohm resistor tips the warmth scale even more.

 

[kukrisna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif On a side note, isn't digital 'cold.' and analog 'warm?' Maybe hearing a LP version of a live event will make the instruments sound 'warm' and 'real' to the listener using the DT48.

i dont think there's necessarily a need to go vinyl to hear warmth...i feel that, depending on the artist and the music, anything on any format can sound warm regardless of production or playback equipment because of what the sound itself can potentially conjure up

as mentioned earlier, certain instruments will sound warmer by default, like the cello but of course there are so many aspects involved with sound that can add to coloration

we can go back to the composer why not...what was his/her mood, reason for writing the piece, point in history, external influences, etc...then the edition of the piece by a certain publisher - did they change certain bowings or add dynamics for a certain effect?...then the school and change in cello tradition and technique...who is the performer? what school is he or she representing? does that said person have a particular trademarked sound? then we go the the recording - is it a live or studio recording? who's the producer? what label is this being recorded for?

back to the instrument, a cello's sound can be dependent on everything from the artist, the strings, the maker, the age, the bow, the rosin, and even the environment (humidity, temperature, air pressure)

then when the recording process begins...the room, the mics, the cables, the positioning, the engineer, the preamps, the power source, etc etc...and then it gets mixed and mastered and somehow the recording gets pressed and into your hands

what then? is it analog or digital? how many components are in your rig? how well matched is everything? how clean is your power? what mood are you in?

and i suppose my point is driven dead by now...but really there are so many things that influence sound and our perception of it - trying to describe sound is such a humorous process at times because it's such an untouchable ethereal concept and we try to use terms and concepts grounded in a much more solidified world to discuss it

 

[limpidglitch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif On a side note, isn't digital 'cold.' and analog 'warm?' Maybe hearing a LP version of a live event will make the instruments sound 'warm' and 'real' to the listener using the DT48.

There's no doubt that source and amp will have some impact on 'warmness'.

Those who find the DT48 to render instruments realistically, what's your setups?

 

[kukrisna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishcabible /img/forum/go_quote.gif But if it isn't warm live, I doubt it can get much warmer through a recording...

there are wonderful (or terrible) things that can happen during the production and post production process

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif If your only other phone is HD600, that could explain such reaction. DT48 may certainly sound cold in comparison to those. Some phones that I own or used to, 2005 DT770, 2005 DT880 250Ohm, K702, all sounded colder than DT48E. Its warmth/coldness is somewhere on par with SA5000 and ER4S, at times I even find them a bit warmer than those two. That's with standard impedance jack, adding 120Ohm resistor tips the warmth scale even more.

i bought the HD600 the same day i bought the DT48E - up until then, i've had the K701 for almost 2 years being driven out of the same rig...i wasnt searching for a new sound till maybe 6 months ago when i felt the K701 started to not do it for me in terms of representing what i wanted in bass and that its treble energy at times became too piercing...after 14 weeks in London with many nights at various concert halls i confirmed to myself that the K701 did not represent that which i heard for the reasons i deduced before my trip...because my internship compensated me quite nicely towards the end, i decided to buy some headphones upon my return and after a lot of research and dialogue around head-fi, i decided to audition the DT48E and the HD600...and out of the two, with my equipment, which i did not want to change for reasons that if you're curious i will explain, i preferred the HD600...not because it was necessarily more neutral and who knows if it's more natural...but because it fulfilled my wants and reflected my experiences in the concert hall more so than the DT48 - i dont care if it's not technically as superior, or if it's not as neutral, or if it's more colored and artificial...it's the sound that i wanted and that i preferred and so im quite happy with my decision

at this point i dont know what's warm or cold or neutral or natural...comparatively i can give an opinion sure, but when it comes down to it, i guess i have a desired sound in my head, and the headphones i will settle with will be those that reflect that ideal the best

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by limpidglitch /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's no doubt that source and amp will have some impact on 'warmness'. Those who find the DT48 to render instruments realistically, what's your setups?

Home rig - Chord DAC64 with Headamp GS-1
Office rig - Stello DA100 with GLite.
Sounds equally stunning in both systems. Distorted bass guitars through them is something to die for, never heard them sound that good, bring all old well known metal tunes to the new level. Try some Messhugah with them, just jaw dropping.

And no, it doesn't sound good straight out of Zune. When paired with Pico it was on the thin side too.

 

[limpidglitch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Home rig - Chord DAC64 with Headamp GS-1 Office rig - Stello DA100 with GLite. Sounds equally stunning in both systems. Distorted bass guitars through them is something to die for, never heard them sound that good, bring all old well known metal tunes to the new level. Try some Messhugah with them, just jaw dropping. And no, it doesn't sound good straight out of Zune. When paired with Pico it was on the thin side too.

That do sound enticing, thanks.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Home rig - Chord DAC64 with Headamp GS-1 Office rig - Stello DA100 with GLite. Sounds equally stunning in both systems. Distorted bass guitars through them is something to die for, never heard them sound that good, bring all old well known metal tunes to the new level. Try some Messhugah with them, just jaw dropping. And no, it doesn't sound good straight out of Zune. When paired with Pico it was on the thin side too.

I'm very impressed on well these things scale..Being only 25ohm and senitive. I would love to have a GS1. Very neutral and detailed. It must take the 48's to another level. I'm using my Yamaha receiver. 1800. I'm amazed at how they sound with my receiver. Some CDs with a lot of clapping, using shakers, hand drums, etc, are of the jaw dropping variety. Even more so considering these are from a 70 yr old design. I might balance mine and use the DAC1. They are neutral too. My Yamaha is warm and a bit on the bright side. Still have things to sell.

 

[FourierMakesFunk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you sure? I can't find it now, but I recall reading that the DT48 had a small following among audiophiles back in the Fifties. I don't think headphone listening gained widespread popularity until the HD-414, though. I (I like the HD-414, too )

A couple of years ago I helped a guy through out a custom made "hi-fi" speaker from the 50s, not exactly great sounding...in addition: let's just say a couple hundred pounds (actual weight)

Analog is thought of as warm because it stereotypically is distorted, digital is stereotypically cold due to low sample/bit rates (I hate the term bit rate, it's just wrong). With modern high digital recording and well designed analog systems, the differences are almost nonexistant or can be warm or cold on either end. Now lets have none of that nonsense! I wonder if I will ever listen to a classical recording and think "I wish he would use rosin X instead of this darn rosin Y."

Anywhoodle, I think we can describe sound, especially comparatively if we have well defined terms. With most hi-fi stuff though, at a certain point the differences get small and then the confusion and argueing - I mean fun and discussing! - begin.

 

[FourierMakesFunk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukrisna /img/forum/go_quote.gif i preferred the HD600...not because it was necessarily more neutral and who knows if it's more natural...but because it fulfilled my wants and reflected my experiences in the concert hall more so than the DT48 - i dont care if it's not technically as superior, or if it's not as neutral, or if it's more colored and artificial...it's the sound that i wanted and that i preferred and so im quite happy with my decision

As it should be! Here here!

(though just looking at the internals of either, we can safely say the HD600 is technically superior, as this is ignoring how they sound)

I love my neapolitan mandolin. I bought it in Italy from the maker. It's a piece of sh!t (not that bad, but it is a cheap one used as a display model). However, I've tried other expensive mandolins, but none feel as good or give me the sound I like, so I stick with good old Giovanni (because every loved instrument needs a name, right? Maybe my Grados have earned a name by now...) until I can get my hands on some antique neapolitans... or not.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by limpidglitch /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's no doubt that source and amp will have some impact on 'warmness'. Those who find the DT48 to render instruments realistically, what's your setups?

I mainly use Sony DVP-SR100 > Audio-gd Reference One DAC > Meier-Audio Corda Opera. So that's a very modest transport, with a DAC that's the perfect equivalent of the DT-48 (i.e. dead neutral), to a very slightly warm amp.
With this setup, to me the DT-48 does sound 'cold', certainly colder than my K500, probably even colder than my DT880 (but I don't have that one on hand to compare it). And yes, some of the warmth with unamplified instruments and/or venue does get lost. But what I mainly enjoy from the DT-48 is that it manages to nail the core of certain difficult to reproduce timbres of instrument, such as that of a piano or a French horn. It really does that amazingly well. For the rest it's just a matter of adjusting to its sound signature.

On a side note, I see the Sony SA5000 being mentioned a lot in comparison to the DT-48. I'm getting very curious to hear that 'phone. Could anyone tell me how coloured it is in comparison to the DT-48?

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif I mainly use Sony DVP-SR100 > Audio-gd Reference One DAC > Meier-Audio Corda Opera. So that's a very modest transport, with a DAC that's the perfect equivalent of the DT-48 (i.e. dead neutral), to a very slightly warm amp. With this setup, to me the DT-48 does sound 'cold', certainly colder than my K500, probably even colder than my DT880 (but I don't have that one on hand to compare it). And yes, some of the warmth with unamplified instruments and/or venue does get lost. But what I mainly enjoy from the DT-48 is that it manages to nail the core of certain difficult to reproduce timbres of instrument, such as that of a piano or a French horn. It really does that amazingly well. For the rest it's just a matter of adjusting to its sound signature. On a side note, I see the Sony SA5000 being mentioned a lot in comparison to the DT-48. I'm getting very curious to hear that 'phone. Could anyone tell me how coloured it is in comparison to the DT-48?

Not very colored.. It's one of the better audiophile neutral cans out today.. Bass quality and extension is very good.. No boom, bloat, or flab.. I already compared the two several times. I was thinking about selling mine since the DT48 does most things better. But I can't. The SA5000 is still different enough to keep.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not very colored.. It's one of the better audiophile neutral cans out today.. Bass quality and extension is very good.. No boom, bloat, or flab.. I already compared the two several times. I was thinking about selling mine since the DT48 does most things better. But I can't. The SA5000 is still different enough to keep.

Thanks, I guess that will be my next headphone purchase then. For a long time I was thinking about getting a HD600 instead, but as of late I'm really starting to think those might be way too coloured for me.