[direcow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will. However, the Zero has had many hours of usage and the Compass not and in my experience, the hours make a difference. A quick listen has the non-burned in Compass bettering my heavily-used Zero with 3x HDAMs with more detail and better soundstage. Edit: The sound has opened up a bit now I've had it running for a few hours. I'm using one of Kingwa's power cables, so it could be that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, Kingwa told me he has had a lot of feedback from people about the Compass sounding warm and soft. He thinks his fully-burned in Compass doesn't sound that way, so I plan to leave mine on for 4-5 days straight to give it another 100 hours at least before I write more about it.

Sounds like I'm pretty much ordered! Feeling a little trigger happy, and I can't wait

Good thing it's the Holidays though, which means Kingwa probably can't start sending out orders soon. A little more time to read for me. Pretty much a done deal though.

Edit: Yep, no shipping till the 5th. What a long wait...

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif The only way to verify the burn-in process for the HDAMs goes as follows: 1) Receive two brand fresh HDAMs of the same type 2) Verify they both sound the same at the beginning. If not - the test will fail. 3) Burn one in for a week or two, leave another untouched. 4) Compare both after burn-in period. All other reports make no sense in terms of burning in electronics.

Hi,
Nice review you wrote up. So you noticed no huge difference from 20 hours burn in onward? I see where you said you would let them burn in a little longer and reassess.

 

[dario]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif The only way to verify the burn-in process for the HDAMs goes as follows: 1) Receive two brand fresh HDAMs of the same type 2) Verify they both sound the same at the beginning. If not - the test will fail. 3) Burn one in for a week or two, leave another untouched. 4) Compare both after burn-in period. All other reports make no sense in terms of burning in electronics.

I have done this with zero and sun hdam (I have 3 sun and 1 earth), no difference (with hd 650) changing one of the two sun in the headamp section (150h+ vs 0h) I think that for electronics is only suggestion (imho), for headphone it's a complete different story (imho)...

 

[K3cT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by direcow /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds like I'm pretty much ordered! Feeling a little trigger happy, and I can't wait Good thing it's the Holidays though, which means Kingwa probably can't start sending out orders soon. A little more time to read for me. Pretty much a done deal though. Edit: Yep, no shipping till the 5th. What a long wait...

Indeed. It's the same situation with me too, friend.

I think I'm looking forward to tomorrow's reunion dinner a little bit more at the moment though. BTW, I heard it's going to be a 2-weeks holiday in China.. Damn, I'm envious.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dario /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have done this with zero and sun hdam (I have 3 sun and 1 earth), no difference (with hd 650) changing one of the two sun in the headamp section (150h+ vs 0h) I think that for electronics is only suggestion (imho), for headphone it's a complete different story (imho)...

You're talking two different types of break ins, ehh? One is like putting a new door hinge on a door on your house. Out of the wrapper, the hinge might be a little tight, but as the door moves open and closed, it starts working "normal" in short order. The other type of break in(Electronic) can be shown to happen on a Oscilloscope, but not to the extent claimed, ie months and months.

All due respect to Curra, there is no way to divest this thread from a break-in discussion. In the last 10 posts about the new Compasses and how they sound, how many referenced break-in? Your last post referenced Kingwa saying to Break in. If Break in does not exist, than the Compasses are "soft". If it does exist, they will "improve". Improve how much and for how long, hmmm, that's the debate isn't it!

 

[sandchak]

Any more Compasses received?? think mine is stuck in Heathrow at least till Monday !!

 

[Doorknob]

I personally believe that burn in is true based on my experiences with my newly bought Zero and a soundcard (for optical cable plugging in purposes). First time I hooked it up and heard it, I was hearing echoes everywhere (Even clicking with my mouse on things did that) with my A900 which was about a month older then Zero when I had received it. Next day the echoes were mostly gone and that happened to be one of my audio experiences which doesn't seize to puzzle me. Anyway, that's my personal experiences, and I won't discuss further about burn in and the such.

As for the Compass, I'm willing to give it a week of burn in before giving the second impressions, another week for third, and so forth. It's my first time ever doing any kind of audio review, so I might as well as use that time to look up some more audio vocabs.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Any more Compasses received?? think mine is stuck in Heathrow at least till Monday !!

Heathrow?? That's a long long way from Georgia!

 

[sandchak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heathrow?? That's a long long way from Georgia!

Yeah, it kind of takes a long route before reaching this place - HK - Germany - UK - Georgia, and since there is no flights from UK to this place on Saturday, it will take the Sunday evening flight and should reach me on Monday, thats always been the case.. well, I guess we will celebrate together!!

 

[bjojoj]

This thread is turning out to be extremely interesting to follow! Units arriving, initial impressions, discussion on the burn-in phenomenon. Beats any thriller known to mankind

While we're (you're) at it, how do you evaluate the sound character of audio gear? What I mean is that there is so much talk about warm, flat, neutral etc. but to be able to conclude that a unit is neutral you would have to know what the original sound is like and compare that with the "sound" coming out of the unit, right? Is this possible? I mean, you're probably used to the sound of your equipment and you've heard a number of other units as well and made comparisons, but how would you know which system or unit is more coloured and which is more true to the original recording? I always read as many reviews I can find when buying something, but when it comes to audio I feel most (if not all) reviews are pointless for me to read at least other than to avoid utter crap. Your thoughts?

Sorry for poluting the thread but there is at least some relevance this time around.

 

[AudioPhewl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Any more Compasses received?? think mine is stuck in Heathrow at least till Monday !!

Mine hit London, Heathrow, on the 23rd at 8.36am. It landed at the Birmingham facility 24th January, 7.15am. I'm hoping it'll hop through customs and be out for delivery Monday 26th, though I do think Tuesday 27th is looking likely.

My views on burn-in... contradict much of those from members on here. I've heard the difference between capacitors in the signal path - burn in does happen here, IMO. But semiconductors - transistors, opamps, etc... I have never found any audible evidence of "burn-in". There is - really is - a difference to me between cold and hot equipment, but I am unable to find any difference between a opamp with 1000+ hours of use, and one fresh out of the packet(once both are up to temperature). I can also understand why there can be a difference between new and used with electromagnetic headphones.

IMO, "burn-in" is a myth for the most part(aside from capacitors in the audio signal path). I do, however, firmly believe that it takes a long time for the human mind, and ears, to properly appreciate the sonic characteristics of a product. As one becomes more accustomed with the product in question, it becomes more familiar, and pleasing to the user. Familiarity plays a major part in being able to find the minor, hidden details with recordings.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I've never seen anything that can accurately or scientifically determine the effect on a repeat basis. All I see - on a repeated basis - is the comments of some individual users with a solitary piece of equipment and their memory of tonal reproduction several days, weeks or even months ago.

Having been able to compare two Zero's next to each other - one with thousands of hours use, the other with a handful... when both units have the same capacitors installed in the signal path with lots of hours on them, there was absolutely no discernable difference between the two.

~Phewl.

 

[DayoftheGreek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjojoj /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread is turning out to be extremely interesting to follow! Units arriving, initial impressions, discussion on the burn-in phenomenon. Beats any thriller known to mankind While we're (you're) at it, how do you evaluate the sound character of audio gear? What I mean is that there is so much talk about warm, flat, neutral etc. but to be able to conclude that a unit is neutral you would have to know what the original sound is like and compare that with the "sound" coming out of the unit, right? Is this possible? I mean, you're probably used to the sound of your equipment and you've heard a number of other units as well and made comparisons, but how would you know which system or unit is more coloured and which is more true to the original recording? I always read as many reviews I can find when buying something, but when it comes to audio I feel most (if not all) reviews are pointless for me to read at least other than to avoid utter crap. Your thoughts? Sorry for poluting the thread but there is at least some relevance this time around.

I think reviews have a large amount of both useful and useless information. You have to be able to accurately wade through the incredibly subjective parts to find what you want. Some things are pretty universally accepted and those are the things I look for. I also look for things like quality of build to make sure the product will stand up to the test of time. When people start describing cables or tubes with ridiculous words like "danceable" or thing of that nature, I tend to ignore them.

I also look at the gear people use prior to their upgrades. If someone has the same cans as me, I tend to weigh their opinions more. If someone using SR80's upgrades to SR325i and loves it, but someone who came from Sen HD555 doesn't like it, I would tend to give the SR80 guy more weight in my decision, because those are the cans I am currently using. Since audio is so opinionated and comparative, I might as well listen to someone who has similar tastes and comparisons. I will also trust people with lots of gear, because they have the ability to directly compare two products.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, it kind of takes a long route before reaching this place - HK - Germany - UK - Georgia, and since there is no flights from UK to this place on Saturday, it will take the Sunday evening flight and should reach me on Monday, thats always been the case.. well, I guess we will celebrate together!!

Wow, that's quite a journey. That's goes some way to explain the rather high shipping costs to Eastern Europe. (Although I'm not really sure if Georgia would fall under Eastern Europe as a shipping zone.)
As long as it gets there eventually, that's the main thing.

 

[csroc]

Mine appears to have made it to Ohio and was "processed" today. Hopefully it makes its way up here for Monday.

 

[sennsay]

Hmm, having just looked over the latter pages of this thread recently, there seems to be an awful lot of intellectualising and arguing to be right, and bugger all of allowing people of differing experience to just relate their experiences without it being judged.
A point to make here; if I remember rightly, Kingwa told me that he and the team run each unit in for 100 hours before sending it out, right? That's a pretty good start on the burn-in process. Those big Nover PS caps do take a while to form properly, my own a-gd power supply took well over the 200 hour mark to really settle down.

For me personally, the burn-in process of ALL of my electronics here has been a fascinating journey; my HDAMs improved out of sight in gobsmacking ways at 50 hours plus and continued to do so more subtly at regular intervals, the PIOs took 50 hour steps that are repeatable (PP has spoken of this many times before and I've heard it myself with every single unit).
Both KHA I.5 and II amps changed dramatically on running in, same for the a-gd power supply and again as the bypass caps burned in.
For those among you who don't hear any change at all, good for you, you can just get on and enjoy your listening straight away and not bother about wondering if you might enjoy the experience any more as time goes by.
Easy really.

I've enjoyed my own journey thoroughly. It's about enjoying the music, when you come down to it - that IS what you bought the gear for, right? - 'cos I sure as hell ain't going to spend $500NZD on a Compass just to critique it!

S-Man