[Pricklely Peete]

Interesting observations thus far Currawong.

This is going to be a long 36 hours till mine shows up

Peete.

 

[peanuthead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Kingwa told me in an email that the C2C had a very wide frequency response, 1Hz to 100kHz.

That seems like an outlandish claim.

 

[sandchak]

I might be wrong out here, but to me neutral is more to sounding natural, I have personally been playing piano and sax for the last 15 years and I can call it my serious hobby, not profession or professional. I presume anyone who is is used to playing any instrument does get accustomed to that sound more than what you hear through hifi gears.
There are a lot of CDs or Lps which are basically mic to mic recording ( specially small ensemble) without mixing and too much mastering, I usually refer those when I want to hear how an equipment sounds, I find them as a good reference to judge the sound of hardware. Of course the best thing would be to have the exact setup as the recording studio where the source was recorded to know how exactly it sounded - even in that case, one cant be sure that it is the true sound as it goes through a lot of mixing and mastering.

I don't know if it makes sense, but that how I do it.

 

[decayed.cell]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Kingwa told me in an email that the C2C had a very wide frequency response, 1Hz to 100kHz. I was having an issue with sibilance and thought that maybe the C2C was a bit bright. I imagined that the Compass would be the same, with the "soft" options allowing that to be tamed. It seems he tamed the sound and added a soft option, which was a bit much. Some of it probably has to do with my Denons, which I listen through a lot, as taming the bass in them made them a bit bright.

Hmm that might do well with the JVC HP-M1000's since a couple of people noted sibilance issues. Although personally I don't mind it makes it more fun sounding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree completely (all joking aside)......if you are five feet away from a string quartet in a small setting, no amplification...you are hearing the instruments as a direct source to your ears....there is no added coloration of artificial means...this a reference neutral moment and will give you a base experience SQ for each of those instruments you've witnessed that day. Peete.

Agreed but imo depending on what you're listening to can change the apparent sound of an instrument, like the cello may sound more mellow if its playing a smooth bass line against a light melody whilst the viola may sound harsh if its playing high staccato etc etc etc. Which is why I guess its important to get exposure to many composers/artists and setups as you mentioned earlier

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif I might be wrong out here, but to me neutral is more to sounding natural, I have personally been playing piano and sax for the last 15 years and I can call it my serious hobby, not profession or professional. I presume anyone who is is used to playing any instrument does get accustomed to that sound more than what you hear through hifi gears.

Ha no way I play the piano and sax as well, 15 and 9 years respectively, starting to learn the guitar now

 

[sandchak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by decayed.cell /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ha no way I play the piano and sax as well, 15 and 9 years respectively, starting to learn the guitar now

Well, its kind of strange, when someone plays an instrument for so long and does not know how that instrument sounds naturally.. but then that may be the case too, depends person to person.

I mean its all about exposure, whether you are exposed much to live music or you are playing the instrument yourself..

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree completely (all joking aside)......if you are five feet away from a string quartet in a small setting, no amplification...you are hearing the instruments as a direct source to your ears....there is no added coloration of artificial means...this a reference neutral moment and will give you a base experience SQ for each of those instruments you've witnessed that day. Don't think of Neutrality in the literal sense, think of it as starting point for getting the fundamental characteristics of the instrument being recorded onto the track as closely as possible to what it really sounds like live. Peete.

I didn't make myself clear obviously. What I'm saying is that when we get a sample of recorded music, like a CD, there is nothing Natural about it. Neither before it became a CD, or after you get ahold of it to try to listen to it. Comparing it to live, or natural, or neutral makes no sense. It is by it's nature artificial. It is also the creation of the Engineering staff that produced it. Then we take a system with a million colorations and try to listen to it.

That's why I said the most neutral way to Listen to a CD was to put it up to your ear and listen to it.

 

[mbd2884]

When it comes to the music I listen to, proud to say I have seen the majority of the bands live, I always make a distinction when someone asks me about the bands. Every band I have seen sound different from their studio album. Live vs Studio recorded music are two completely different things.

Either way, I think this conversation has gone way off topic, lets get back to reviewing and discussing the Compass.

 

[direcow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Kingwa told me in an email that the C2C had a very wide frequency response, 1Hz to 100kHz. I was having an issue with sibilance and thought that maybe the C2C was a bit bright. I imagined that the Compass would be the same, with the "soft" options allowing that to be tamed. It seems he tamed the sound and added a soft option, which was a bit much. Some of it probably has to do with my Denons, which I listen through a lot, as taming the bass in them made them a bit bright.

since kingwa tested with his own pair of Denons, I wonder if he noticed it was soft at the high end too, since I'm thinking his denons aren't modded.

Looks like I'll be sticking to neutral - Curra are you listening to neutral right now?

 

[K3cT]

It's very interesting so far. For me the Zero has an overall smooth sound so it's looking that the Compass may retain the same signature.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree completely (all joking aside)......if you are five feet away from a string quartet in a small setting, no amplification...you are hearing the instruments as a direct source to your ears....there is no added coloration of artificial means...this a reference neutral moment and will give you a base experience SQ for each of those instruments you've witnessed that day. Don't think of Neutrality in the literal sense, think of it as starting point for getting the fundamental characteristics of the instrument being recorded onto the track as closely as possible to what it really sounds like live.

Good post, Peete! I started out reading your previous post expecting to disagree and found myself agreeing almost completely. Getting to know instruments intimately, up close and personal and in small settings can be the only reference that is really relevant to judge the naturalness of sound reproduction.
I'm always amazed about people claiming that their search in Hi-end audio is for the closest thing to a live a concert. I can still imagine this when we're talking about a string quartet or just a man with his guitar. When it comes to amplified music (especially stadium concerts) I do sincerely hope that those of us who have invested quite a bit in their equipment at home have sound quality that is far superior to that heard at those concerts.
But even when were talking about a good symphony orchestra in a good hall, I find the experience quite different from the sound I can manage to get from a cd. Sure, in many ways the live experience can't be beat, for naturalness of sound, the sheer sense of being enveloped in music, the occassion... But when it comes down to, for example, being able to differentiate the instruments, focussing on individual instruments or instrument groups, I actually find a recorded version to be superior to the real thing. And I'm not just talking about modern multi-miked stuff either, good classical recordings from the 60's already offer that kind of resolution. Moreover, there is no ideal spot in a concert hall, depending on the place of your seat you'll get a different perspective on the sound. While none of those correspond with your "listening position" in a recording (e.g. the position of the main microphones) which hang about 3-4 meters above and right in front of the orchestra. Well, these are just my 2 cents, based on an awful lot of listening experience at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam with an assortement of world class orchestra's.

On a different note, how is the Compass listening group coming along Peete?

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Ok Les... I understand your point but we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Sandchak that is exactly what I mean ...your term natural (to describe something as it sounds for real) is what I call neutral or realistic....the terms are interchangeable.

Peete.

 

[Currawong]

I can't wait till all you guys get your Compasses and stop crapping on about this stuff.

 

[K3cT]

Currawong, it's great to see you at last today! How'd the Compass cooking so far, does it sound a lot better than the Zero already?

 

[sandchak]

Well, since I do not have my Compass yet, maybe I can do a little bit more of crapping!..

I just did some reading about the vocabs such as neutral, soft and bright in audio gears. What I assume from the readings, is that a DAC is neutral when it adds no colorations to the the source like the CD, if its recorded bright, what you get ultimately is bright, and if soft the output is soft..

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandchak /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just did some reading about the vocabs such as neutral, soft and bright in audio gears. What I assume from the readings, is that a DAC is neutral when it adds no colorations to the the source like the CD, if its recorded bright, what you get ultimately is bright, and if soft the output is soft..

Uhm, yes, the only problem being that the only reference here would be how it relates to other DACs. How do you know what the actual CD sounds like, if not through a DAC? (This was part of Les's point, I believe.)