[K3cT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doorknob /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wouldn't know for sure (And can't since the unit is broke anyway) right now. My Zero had went through various changes, including HDAM replacement and the FrankenMod. If my memory serves right, Compass right off the bat seems to sound much like a fully burned in Zero only with slightly lower decibels on the higher frequency ranges which starts somewhere from the upper mids and seems to lack slight amount of soundstage. FrankenZero, I wouldn't know for sure, but the only fondest memory I had was that I was playing air guitar while listening to some of Takajii's works before the thing suddenly died. Shoot, and I was having such a great time.

Aw, shucks.

But thanks anyway. Things may change though because it seems that audio-gd gears take ages to burn-in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten Heh, let me partially answer this question. He won't know for certain, because Audio Memory is very short lived and... wait for it..... wait for it... His Zero is Broken!!! Yeah!!!, Yeah!! And the Fans go Wild!!!!

Aren't you a happy camper?

I guess I'll have to find out the hard way eh? I have to wait until the end of Chinese New Year though because I also celebrate it around here and it's even a bigger holiday over there in China.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

The way I look at it...18 of us have the perfect opportunity to observe the possibility of "break in" first hand...the results of which (will have no right or wrong impression IMO) may be valuable in as much as the knowledge gained will put in perspective the long term commitment it takes to observe any such changes and knowing that is does take some considerable time....the self discipline to follow through with it even if you feel enough time has passed. It's takes considerable effort to note these changes once let alone a number of times back to back ad nauseum.....believing me or my experiences matters not when you come down to it rather do you trust the person giving this advice in the first place ?

Who has put in the time, what have they to gain from those conclusions ? These are questions to be asked and answered honestly and truthfully. IMO a long burn in period isn't a positive.....so nothing is gained by declaring such a thing, the manufacturer gains nothing and the person observing these changes gains nothing.....

I repeat...here we have a unique opportunity with a large "test group" of people all starting out with the same DAC/Amp at the approximate same time....to me this opportunity should not be passed up and will I will now ask those that can keep an open mind to document their findings and keep tabs on any changes (if any) over a long period of time. At the end we can compare findings and let those chips fall where they may.

I'm up for that challenge...who else is willing to participate ? Speak up please in this thread and we will co-ordinate the effort via PM or email once we have at least 10 participants or more...hell, all of you would be great.

Peete.

 

[Tb311]

This is amp is sounding very promising. So how do I get one for the promo price?

 

[dBs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanx for that about the Transisters? So with a good Background in EE, what do you think of the various Burn In Claims/Observations RE how long it will take and whether these things are 1) Measurable? 2) Audible? I saw an Oscilloscope analysis of some Caps over on the DIY audio forum that showed Cap break in pretty good. However, it would seem to me you would see a relatively rapid change in "character" and then a very long relatively flat plateau in "character" before "AGE" would show significant changes. Or that the AGE changes would be a slow drift. I would think if I had a change on relatively new gear that took place constantly over 6-12 months, I would look at Temperature and seasonal changes as much as anything else. Your thoughts?

To be honest, I dont know for certain how this would be. I suspect that "burn in" would be most effected by the materials involved than the transistor length or width. This is more to do with the chemical properties of the materials involved than anything else.

As I mentioned before, electrons are attracted to the gate to act as a bridge for the current from the source to the drain. If the gate does not have a charge, then the electrons re-disperse throughout the substrate and the bridge dissolves. What can happen over time is that these electrons form an unusually high concentration in the area of the gate so that a current forms.

If I remember correctly, at least in the cases of LEDs and laser diodes, the graph I showed has less and less amplification (the linear region gets shorter and shorter in length) and the knee voltage (the point at which the linear region begins) pushes further away (requires more voltage). This would make for less amplification.

The nature of how these changes occur over time would vary by the chemical processes involved and the inherit chemical nature of the materials. How many valence electrons the materials have, the nature of the chemical bonding, how fast the electrons can move, and the pace of how fast these electrons lose their even dispersion to congregate at the gate when no gate charge is present.

These sorts of things arent covered until you hit grad school classes, and even then, not by all colleges. I may not get a course in this. Generally though, these sorts of break downs take a long time to occur. These usually arent problems in amplifier purposes so much as digital purposes like in processors. Usually then the problem is quantum tunneling.

I dunno if I made things more clear or just more confusing XD

 

[Doorknob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif The way I look at it...18 of us have the perfect opportunity to observe the possibility of "break in" first hand...the results of which (will have no right or wrong impression IMO) may be valuable in as much as the knowledge gained will put in perspective the long term commitment it takes to observe any such changes and knowing that is does take some considerable time....the self discipline to follow through with it even if you feel enough time has passed. It's takes considerable effort to note these changes once let alone a number of times back to back ad nauseum.....believing me or my experiences matters not when you come down to it rather do you trust the person giving this advice in the first place ? Who has put in the time, what have they to gain from those conclusions ? These are questions to be asked and answered honestly and truthfully. IMO a long burn in period isn't a positive.....so nothing is gained by declaring such a thing, the manufacturer gains nothing and the person observing these changes gains nothing..... I repeat...here we have a unique opportunity with a large "test group" of people all starting out with the same DAC/Amp at the approximate same time....to me this opportunity should not be passed up and will I will now ask those that can keep an open mind to document their findings and keep tabs on any changes (if any) over a long period of time. At the end we can compare findings and let those chips fall where they may. I'm up for that challenge...who else is willing to participate ? Speak up please in this thread and we will co-ordinate the effort via PM or email once we have at least 10 participants or more...hell, all of you would be great. Peete.

I thought we had a Compass test group thing for this? Nevertheless, I'm interested. It'll be interesting to see the progress of our Compass during the burn in timeline.

 

[ccschua]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3cT /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's always a chance that a stacked Zero is better than the Compass though.

That would be a general overstatement. It is like thinking a heavily moded Mini minor can jump up a staircase. Lol.

Here is my DAC 100. It has clocked in more than 300 hours. The DAC AH is yet to be rub off for DAC 100.

 

[AudioPhewl]

WTH is a stacked Zero, anyway?

~Phewl.

 

[csroc]

Nothing showed up for me today

 

[haloxt]

I know where Santa lives but I have no idea where DHL's hub is for customer pick-up. I guess I have no choice but to wait for Monday. DHL really should work on the website lol.

 

[Doorknob]

Finally some pics of the newly arrived Compass.

http://i41.tinypic.com/6h82mp.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2h6gal3.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/11tndvm.jpg

 

[oneway23]

Great pictures Doorknob, thanks! It's certainly larger in the depth department than I had imagined, but it definitely looks well built.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doorknob /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought we had a Compass test group thing for this? Nevertheless, I'm interested. It'll be interesting to see the progress of our Compass during the burn in timeline.

Compass test group is for the SQ,features...impressions...general stuff...what I'm proposing is outside the scope of that...to see if "burn in" is myth or fact for audio-gd gear...it's takes time some dedication and some patience for this to work...when most people have lost interest in the test group (3 weeks time) the "burn in" trial will be 1/4 of the way done.....what it means is keeping accurate track of hours on your own unit as well as spending as much time as possible listening to it while those hours tick away...usually a min of 1 hour a day of true concentrated no distraction listening often times using the same test track for reference.....it's time consuming..takes effort and willpower to see it through. I've done it countless times now and will do it once again.....

So far we have myself and 2 others.....3 of 18...need at least 6-10 to make the results worthwhile enough either bust the myth or call it fact.

Come on fellow Head Fi'ers here's your chance to contribute...take the Pepsi challenge

Peete.

 

[haloxt]

I think burn-in is irrefutable, the most direct test being to compare a burned-in audio gear with a brand new audio gear. You thought audiophile superstition was bad, just wait I'll go adapt I Ching divination to audio circuitry design while I wait for DHL to deliver.

 

[Currawong]

My compass arrived this morning at 9am (Japan time). Thankfully courier deliveries are almost all done by Sagawa, who are reliable.

The Compass is the same size as my C2C and came with a Moon HDAM installed. I also received an ST3 and 2 of Kingwa's power cables to test.

First impressions so far are of a very smooth, but soft sound, even in "neutral". Switching to the Northstar as a source and using the Compass in "Super" mode the result is a bit brighter, but still quite soft-sounding, without any jumpers on. Using the Compass as a standalone DAC to my vintage Stax, it is quite soft too, even compared to my relatively soft-sounding Northstar.

The HP amp section drives both my Denons and Senns well.

The useful thing about having the ST3 here is that I can use the pre-amp out of the compass I asked for at the last minute to connect to the ST3 for burn-in, even if I'm not listening to music.

I'll report back in a few days after I've put another 100 hours on it. I'll also probably switch to the Earth HDAM, try USB and take some pics.

 

[direcow]

so far we have 2 impressions, one with somewhat soft sound and the other with slightly less extension in the highs...

Curra, what do you mean by soft? As in lack of impact? Don't think it means volume...

I'm not sure how burn in will affect it, but I'll hold on and wait a while. It sure looks good, but it's quite a bit larger than the zero.