[rated1975]

+1. I auditioned a pair of transmission line floor standers some 15 years ago, and listened to a cathedral pipe organ recording. When we added a REL stadium subwoofer to the setup, pushing 35Hz and below, the spatial soundstage increased dramatically.
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It is bass that provides spacial cues to a recording.

 

[dagothur]

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Well you could say all pornstars are sluts, which would be the general consensus, but how would you know what their true personalities are without meeting them personally? Testimonials, that they are sluts, rather than personal experience does not make pornstars "less reliable" to be sluts. See the fallacy in your argument now?

That's not accurate.  To say that somebody is 'a person' encompasses more than the direct experience with a headphone does.  We're talking about sound characteristics.  You can trust a general consensus if that's what you're talking about, as AiDee did mention 'the general consensus that I get'.  He's offering his conclusion based on what they've said and in no way indicated it was the same as having direct experience with the headphone.  My argument is not fallacious.

 

[beaver316]

Unless your music is poorly mastered 128/256 kps, then the LCD-3s would be the better cans. But as you mentioned, nothing in this price range offers linearity in terms of price vs. performance. Maybe start with the LCD-2s and make sure the Audeze sound is for you.

All my music is in flac, but poorly mastered. Most of my music has dynamic compression as a result of 'the loudness wars' and exhibit some clipping. In this case isn't the LCD2 the better choice?

 

[Girls Generation]

I think I was pointing to another post but anyways, the fact that sound and hearing is completely subjective, because perception is easily tainted and biased, should tell you that an argument made on the grounds of another's subjective perception is invalid. I get your argument, and I agree that we can all agree on the basic characteristics of certain headphones, but to single out a specific characteristic and form it into a solid argument, and taking it even further by berating other members based on that fact, is... wrong.
 
By the way, I'm not directing this towards anyone specific, since I am molding a number of arguments made by different members together in order to get my point across more clearly.
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That's not accurate.  To say that somebody is 'a person' encompasses more than the direct experience with a headphone does.  We're talking about sound characteristics.  You can trust a general consensus if that's what you're talking about, as AiDee did mention 'the general consensus that I get'.  He's offering his conclusion based on what they've said and in no way indicated it was the same as having direct experience with the headphone.  My argument is not fallacious.

 

[dagothur]

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I think I was pointing to another post but anyways, the fact that sound and hearing is completely subjective, because perception is easily tainted and biased, should tell you that an argument made on the grounds of another's subjective perception is invalid. I get your argument, and I agree that we can all agree on the basic characteristics of certain headphones, but to single out a specific characteristic and form it into a solid argument, and taking it even further by berating other members based on that fact, is... wrong.
 
By the way, I'm not directing this towards anyone specific, since I am molding a number of arguments made by different members together in order to get my point across more clearly.

That depends on how you qualify your argument.  If I haven't heard a headphone and I'm not stating a given - the K1000 and HE-6 are hard to drive, you need an ES amp to drive ES headphones, etc. - I always say that I've read it or that the consensus seems to be.  I don't think the original statement was even an argument.  A conclusion, definitely.  As long as you always state the nature of your opinion - a conclusion based on what other people say - then I don't see the harm in it.  If a lot of people are experiencing the same thing with a product, that lends credence to the experience, no?
On a far more related note, how does changing from single ended to balance affect the sound of the LCD-2?

 

[scootermafia]

I'd probably sell off most if not all of those cans and go for the LCD3.  I don't have any reservations about them, they are a nice all around can and are a lot more interesting than LCD2, although their price is heinous.

 

[DefQon]

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On a far more related note, how does changing from single ended to balance affect the sound of the LCD-2?

As with most balanced headphones (considering you've gone balanced all the way which will allow you to hear any difference), soundstage is a bit wider, their is slightly more detail in the treble range. In the end it all comes down to your source, crap in - crap out.

 

[Chris_Himself]

Oh boy, it's been 2 days and this is still goin?
 
LOL.
 
You guys like your LCD-2's, it doesn't make the HD800 any worse. It has it's perks. Thats speaking objectively.
 
Subjectively, I could go either way, they're both really good. I wish I could listen to T1 and just take the mother of all headphone pics.. I suppose the LCD-3 oughta be the next thing I get but dat be a lotta money yo.

 

[pp312]

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That's not accurate.  To say that somebody is 'a person' encompasses more than the direct experience with a headphone does.  We're talking about sound characteristics.  You can trust a general consensus if that's what you're talking about, as AiDee did mention 'the general consensus that I get'.  He's offering his conclusion based on what they've said and in no way indicated it was the same as having direct experience with the headphone.  My argument is not fallacious.

 
No, but given all those sluts and porn stars involved it could be a little salacious.

 
BTW, I still come down on the side of drawing reasonable conclusions based on a large concensus of opinion. If 300 people, even those who own and like it, write that the HD800 is a touch bright, it's reasonable to conclude that it's a touch bright, and even to infer that it may not be best choice for harsh, bright recordings. The fact that a few owners with fairly deep pockets have managed to ameliorate that brightness down to acceptable levels by careful choice of equipment does not alter the fact that most users with typical equipment find the HD800 bright. It may not be a fact to some people that it is bright, but it's certainly a fact that most people--not just here but across the Net--hear it as bright. It's two different things, and we need to differentiate between them.    

 

[LugBug1]

Can I also add.. that I am a self confessed headphone person. I go through headphones like theres no tomorrow!
The dark sultress that is the LCD2 has seduced me recently though, and i'm actually thinking about settling down.. don't need anything else, she does everything right to me. Must be love!

 

[Girls Generation]

I won't argue with you since that is what I think as well. However, I think Head-fi is just hostile towards it altogether because it's difficult to censor what is "unreasonable" against what is reasonable. Sure there may be very reasonable conclusions based off of a very large consensus of opinions from extremely experienced members. But there are also conclusions that are just ridiculous and people just keep regurgitating it everywhere. Then, soon after, there will be a large consensus of opinions saying such conclusions were somehow "reasonable." Now it's much more tricky to pick out these conclusions and censor them. And I think this is exactly how hype-trains are conceived, and exactly why people shun "general consensus" statements/inputs/advice/suggestions that are without any personal experience. :|
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No, but given all those sluts and porn stars involved it could be a little salacious.

 
BTW, I still come down on the side of drawing reasonable conclusions based on a large concensus of opinion. If 300 people, even those who own and like it, write that the HD800 is a touch bright, it's reasonable to conclude that it's a touch bright, and even to infer that it may not be best choice for harsh, bright recordings. The fact that a few owners with fairly deep pockets have managed to ameliorate that brightness down to acceptable levels by careful choice of equipment does not alter the fact that most users with typical equipment find the HD800 bright. It may not be a fact to some people that it is bright, but it's certainly a fact that most people--not just here but across the Net--hear it as bright. It's two different things, and we need to differentiate between them.    

 
 
As DefQon said, a proper through-and-through balanced setup will widen the soundstage, and some other subtle things that you just have to hear for yourself. However, FWIW, I found that SE had a bit more center focus and depth in soundstage. YMMV.
 

On a far more related note, how does changing from single ended to balance affect the sound of the LCD-2?
 

 

[DamageInc77]

How well will the LCD-2's sound straight out of an Asus Essence ST?
 
I don't have the funds for a nice amp currently, so will my "high end" sound card do fine until I get an amp?

 

[Argo Duck]

I can't resist one comment. Dagothur and pp312 make good points.
 
If I and my colleagues had to personally repeat every study and experiment that bears upon some new piece of research, no science would get done. Generally we don't have to, because we have confidence in past findings based on some better-than-zero reliability (and non-zero validity and various methodological and other structural priinciples).
 
Now, consensus of itself does not meet the strict standards of scientific reporting. Nevertheless, if we dismiss it entirely as any basis upon which to speculate or hypothesize about how things may be - that is, we assign it zero reliability - then we must presumably assign zero reliability to the individual reports that comprise this consensus.
 
An interesting thought, for in this case why do we audiophiles bother to report and discuss anything at all?
 
^ Btw GG, I get what you are saying and I agree with the difficulty you highlight.

 

[DefQon]

Let's all just drop it and move on with the topic of this thread.

 

[pp312]

Or maybe we could talk about cable burn-in or whether you can hear the difference between 320 MP3 and FLAC.