[Cante Ista]

Quote:

 
I think people should wait until the reports on sonic differences from alternative cables come from blind ABX tests before investing in such cables.
 
I do not wish to discredit the experience of those who claim these differences, but they are well within the realms of suggestion and autosuggestion.
 
I have written a short article on suggestion and autosuggestion and there is a link to this in my signature.
 
What is not understood is that the human perception of hearing is extremely flexible, it does not behave like a recording machine.
 
All these issues such as the bass being a bit flabby, the silver bringing nuances etc. these are all well within the realms of autosuggestion.
 
Autosuggestion is extremely powerful and everyone is susceptible including myself.
 
This problem exists in the assessment of all Hi Fi components of course.
 
The way to combat the influence of suggestion or autosuggestion is with blind ABX tests.
 
I believe that blind ABX testing should form the basis of reviewing Hi Fi equipment in publications (web and print).
 

That's fine. I hear where you are coming from and I respect your position. I would love more double blind studies on this stuff, but it is not that simple.
 
For me, some of the changes I have experienced were obvious. WIth the variability in how we hear and what we hear, etc., double blind studies are very difficult. There are so may intervening variables to account for that I question reports of negative results. Keep in mind that some people do not hear a difference between different headphones -- i.e. my wife. Does that mean that there is no differences between headphones? 
 
 
I was very skeptical of cable having impact initially, but when I recalled my HD800 the change was undeniable, same with the k550.
 
Also BTW, I cannot be hypnotized (tried it three time with three different professional and no give) so I am not very susceptible to suggestion. 
 
I am not discounting that some of the perceived changes can be psychologically driven (in fact I bet some are), but not all are. Just because you show that some people are suggestible and some people do not perceive differences in cables, that does not prove that cables do no change anything. Like I said, way too many variables at play.
 
And yes, they are majorly overpriced, so if you are looking at priceerformance ratio, dont change your cable.
 
If you dont hear differences, dont recable. But dont write it off just because someone did a study or failed to show impact. Tons of findings are overturned by better studies with better controls. For now, all we can do is relay on your own experiences. 

 

[j0s3pH]

any of you use any carrying case for k550? been trying v hard to find one but couldnt find anything that fits!

 

[Lorspeaker]

Quote:

 
They use different methods for fitting. I can't see it happening easily.
 

 
thanks Pat....

 

[Danthrax]

Quote:

That's fine. I hear where you are coming from and I respect your position. I would love more double blind studies on this stuff, but it is not that simple.
 
For me, some of the changes I have experienced were obvious. WIth the variability in how we hear and what we hear, etc., double blind studies are very difficult. There are so may intervening variables to account for that I question reports of negative results. Keep in mind that some people do not hear a difference between different headphones -- i.e. my wife. Does that mean that there is no differences between headphones? 
 
 
I was very skeptical of cable having impact initially, but when I recalled my HD800 the change was undeniable, same with the k550.
 
Also BTW, I cannot be hypnotized (tried it three time with three different professional and no give) so I am not very susceptible to suggestion. 
 
I am not discounting that some of the perceived changes can be psychologically driven (in fact I bet some are), but not all are. Just because you show that some people are suggestible and some people do not perceive differences in cables, that does not prove that cables do no change anything. Like I said, way too many variables at play.
 
And yes, they are majorly overpriced, so if you are looking at priceerformance ratio, dont change your cable.
 
If you dont hear differences, dont recable. But dont write it off just because someone did a study or failed to show impact. Tons of findings are overturned by better studies with better controls. For now, all we can do is relay on your own experiences. 

 
TBH I think that these cans get a lot better over time, and that using lower AWG cable in general makes them better. The stock cable is really really thin so it can fit through the headband. The only real option is to have cables going to each side, which involves drilling the outside and somehow making them look nice. But some decent Mogami Quad mic cable does these headphones wonders.

 

[Cante Ista]

Quote:

 
TBH I think that these cans get a lot better over time, and that using lower AWG cable in general makes them better. The stock cable is really really thin so it can fit through the headband. The only real option is to have cables going to each side, which involves drilling the outside and somehow making them look nice. But some decent Mogami Quad mic cable does these headphones wonders.

Yes. I do have the split mod with cables drilled to each cup. Perhaps this could be the culprit in better resolution I experienced. Cannot rule that out. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[PanamaHat]

The k550 is now $220 on amazon, quite tempting. Should I buy now or wait and buy mad dogs? Im so conflicted!

 

[GravY]

I have BTG Starlight cables(SPC) on my Shure E530 CIEMs.. switching between those and the Westone cable I can tell you that there is a definite difference in the highs with the BTG.  The BTG cable delivers highs that are crisper/clearer with more detail  and seperation. With that, I believe cables can make a difference in sound quality.

 

[p a t r i c k]

Quote:

That's fine. I hear where you are coming from and I respect your position. I would love more double blind studies on this stuff, but it is not that simple.

 
Thank you for respecting my position, and of course I do respect yours, and your experiences.
 

For me, some of the changes I have experienced were obvious. WIth the variability in how we hear and what we hear, etc., double blind studies are very difficult. There are so may intervening variables to account for that I question reports of negative results. Keep in mind that some people do not hear a difference between different headphones -- i.e. my wife. Does that mean that there is no differences between headphones? 

 
Well the properly conducted blind ABX tests are a very reliable way to gauge if sonic differences are perceptible. In blind listening test any flaws in the test actually favour the "pro difference".
 
You mention that some people don't hear differences in headphones. I know that different people react differently to different audio components, but remember there is a great conceit of the "golden ears" that they have some ability that others do not. You wife probably isn't very interested in perceiving differences between headphones so she doesn't register any difference.
 
The perception in human hearing is extremely flexible, if the human is not interested in hearing differences then they will not hear differences.
 

I was very skeptical of cable having impact initially, but when I recalled my HD800 the change was undeniable, same with the k550. 

 
How often I read this. "I was very skeptical but then I experienced the difference for myself!".
 
The suggestion functions at a subconscious level and will reveal itself very often in this way. It is very powerful and you will have the full impression of significant sonic differences.
 
 

Also BTW, I cannot be hypnotized (tried it three time with three different professional and no give) so I am not very susceptible to suggestion. 

 
There is no "hypnotised" state as such. If the three different professionals told you there is then I hope you did not pay them
 
The idea of a hypnotised state is a myth. In hypnotherapy consciousness does not change at all. There is no change in mental state.
 

If you dont hear differences, dont recable. But dont write it off just because someone did a study or failed to show impact. Tons of findings are overturned by better studies with better controls. For now, all we can do is relay on your own experiences. 

 
Do not "recable" until someone somewhere shows in a blind ABX test that this makes a difference to the sound.
 
Please note that no such test has demonstrated this after three decades of manufacturers selling these cables.
 
If the manufacturers were able to conduct such a test and demonstrate positive results don't you think they would have done that?
 
Other things I recommend to anyone that is interested:
 
Do not believe that you are immune to suggestion or autosuggestion. Nobody is. The human psyche uses autosuggestion as part of its basic functioning.
 
The major problem audio consumers have is that the so-called reviewers of audio equipment do not believe themselves to be susceptible to suggestion, or they do not know what this is.
 
Currently none of the publications for audio on the web or in print is conducting blind ABX tests on equipment because either they don't understand why it is necessary or they understand that the manufacturers don't want these tests performed.
 
Do not believe that you have "trained ears" or that you are one of the "golden ears" and that you have some special capability to hear differences that others do not.
 
The "trained ears" phenomenon is to a significant extent simply a rehearsal of autosuggestion.
 
It has been demonstrated in blind ABX tests that people who believe themselves to have trained hearing perform no better than those who do not have this belief.
 
 
 

 

[p a t r i c k]

Quote:

I have BTG Starlight cables(SPC) on my Shure E530 CIEMs.. switching between those and the Westone cable I can tell you that there is a definite difference in the highs with the BTG.  The BTG cable delivers highs that are crisper/clearer with more detail  and seperation. With that, I believe cables can make a difference in sound quality.

 
I recommend you try this comparison in a blind ABX test.
 

 

[p a t r i c k]

Quote:

The k550 is now $220 on amazon, quite tempting. Should I buy now or wait and buy mad dogs? Im so conflicted!

 
I've never heard the Mad Dogs but I do have a pair of K550 headphones and I think that you will be very happy if you get them
 

 

[money4me247]

Quote:

The k550 is now $220 on amazon, quite tempting. Should I buy now or wait and buy mad dogs? Im so conflicted!

yay you should go for it! the k550 works fine without an amp. mad dogs you definitely need an amp according to the owners that i've asked.
 
depends what you are looking for too as they seem to have a significantly different sound signature. i've listened the akg k550 for 15 days and they are pretty sweet.

 

[Cante Ista]

p a t r i c k 
Do you believe that lower AWG cable and split mod would make a difference in k550? I am willing to admit that this is what caused the change in this case. 
I also cannot do ABX with that can because the cable is hardwired. I will do blind test on my HD800 this weekend though and post back. Will have my wife do the switching between 2 cords. Cool?

 

[PanamaHat]

yay you should go for it! the k550 works fine without an amp. mad dogs you definitely need an amp according to the owners that i've asked.

depends what you are looking for too as they seem to have a significantly different sound signature. i've listened the akg k550 for 15 days and they are pretty sweet.

I'd be using either with my Project Sunrise mkii. I think I'm going to go ahead and buy them then compare them directly to the Mad Dogs at a meet. Have you heard both? Comparisons of these two are pretty scarce so one would be much appreciated

 

[money4me247]

Quote:

I'd be using either with my Project Sunrise mkii. I think I'm going to go ahead and buy them then compare them directly to the Mad Dogs at a meet. Have you heard both? Comparisons of these two are pretty scarce so one would be much appreciated

No, sorry. just akg k550. I was looking into the Mad Dogs, but the people on the Mad Dogs thread say they only sound good w/ an amp, so I didn't want to get em until after I invested in an amp.

 

[3ternalDr4gon]

What's up guys...I looked into the K551's and apparently they don't sound great, but what attracted me a lot to them was the wired control for music via iPods. So what I'm going to do instead is get the K550's and have them customized so I replace the cord with a cord that has a control for iPods. I'm on my own when it comes down to looking for a custom cord with iPod controls though.
 
So my question is...will the custom cord effect the sound quality of the K550's (It will be removable)? Also, does anyone know a good site that sells the custom cord that I'm looking for?