[aaronjensen]

The ST and iO-12's tonal balance and presentation is clearly different not similar, more than maybe you're imagining. The ST's sound is, maybe initially, seeming little boring and very intimate (soundstage difference with the IO-12 is significant). BUT the sound of the ST, with little patience, maybe you discovering soon is very true/honest and you acquiring a taste for this clean window to sound.



I only using the ST with telephone calls (not Zoom or Teams) and I never having complaints from other side, this is the best I can telling you.



Absolutely no problem in both aspects in my experience.



I using the ST sometimes for 4-6 hrs maximum and only stopping because I must doing something different not because of comfort problems. Comfort is never a problem for me with the ST, but this maybe different for you. Is definitely NOT so comfortable like the absolute king of comfort (for me at least), the Bose QC35. I have problem with comfort with the Bose NC700 and Sony XM4 but not with the Sony XM3 (but the QC35 is even better).

About advice before "pulling the trigger", only the usual advice for a very expensive product like this: Try this headphone if possible before buying, or try buying from a place with good returns policy if you can't trying in a shop.

Thanks for the response. Yeah, the closest shop is 2 hours, but I found an online store that has a good return policy. I do wish I could hear them first. Will wait to hear back from Dali on if they are going to update the firmware or not. That's interesting that your king of comfort is QC35. I actually find the IO-12 quite comfortable. But it's hard to ignore how light the Bose are. And I do feel like they made the 45 and QC 2023 worse in the comfort department. I think it's the headband.

 

[angelom]

That's interesting that your king of comfort is QC35. I actually find the IO-12 quite comfortable. But it's hard to ignore how light the Bose are. And I do feel like they made the 45 and QC 2023 worse in the comfort department. I think it's the headband.

Oh, the iO-12 is incredibly comfortable for me, for many hours of use --- and, in difference with the ST and several others headphones, I never needing adjusting the position once the headphone is in my head (I love this about the iO-12!).

BUT, in my long experience with ANC headphones, nothing is more comfortable than the QC35 (one aspect is the weight, of course, buy isn't only that). BUT, unfortunately, the QC35 having a BIG problem for me personally, and this is that the artificial leather earpads making my ears hot very soon and making sweating my ears too. Only the ST, and recently the new Bose QC Ultra, are the only not-genuine leather earpads headphones that I can using for several hours and not having problems with heat and/or sweat. All others not-real leather earpads headphones, including the AirPods Max (this is even more problematic), are terrible for me.

 

[WDitters]

I would add that the T+A Solitaire T and Oppo PM3 also sound different from one another. The PM3 are semi-open Planars while the Solitaire T are dynamic headphones.

The PM3 operate at 26 Ohm / 102db while the Solitaire T operate at 64 Ohm / 106db. One would think this puts them fairly close to each other but in fact the Solitaire T are slightly more difficult to drive. To the SolT, the possibility of driving them in balanced mode definitely is an advantage.

Aside from that, being a semi-open Planar, the PM3 have a slightly better wider soundstage but also slightly dryer bass (typically Planar). In comparison I would say that the Solitaire T may have a slightly narrower soundstage but also a slightly warmer and more intimate sound (without sounding euphonic). And with a balanced cable and decent amp, the Solitaire scale up beautifully,

Although its been a while since I last owned and listened the PM3, my preference is squarely with the SolT. The PM3 are no slouch, but the SolT sound audibly more balanced and (to my ears) better and more enjoyable ...

(And that's without mentioning that by combining wired and wireless capabilities in a pair of headphones of which the target sound signature was realized first, before adding wireless capabilities, the SolT offer a much more complete package ...)

 

[aaronjensen]

Oh, the iO-12 is incredibly comfortable for me, for many hours of use --- and, in difference with the ST and several others headphones, I never needing adjusting the position once the headphone is in my head (I love this about the iO-12!).

BUT, in my long experience with ANC headphones, nothing is more comfortable than the QC35 (one aspect is the weight, of course, buy isn't only that). BUT, unfortunately, the QC35 having a BIG problem for me personally, and this is that the artificial leather earpads making my ears hot very soon and making sweating my ears too. Only the ST, and recently the new Bose QC Ultra, are the only not-genuine leather earpads headphones that I can using for several hours and not having problems with heat and/or sweat. All others not-real leather earpads headphones, including the AirPods Max (this is even more problematic), are terrible for me.

How do you find the ST comfort wise in comparison? Are the ear cups big enough for average or slightly larger ears?

Also, regarding the sound, I enjoy good separation, snares you can feel, etc. How would you describe the ST?

 

[angelom]

How do you find the ST comfort wise in comparison? Are the ear cups big enough for average or slightly larger ears?

Like I saying before, the ST is very comfortable for me for long listening sessions, and is seem that, in general, is very comfortable for the several owners in this thread too (but some people, definitely not many, having problems with this).

About "big enough for average" ears? I think yes. "Slightly larger"? I don't know because, if I want being completely honest, I'm not sure what is 100% average or 100% "slightly larger" --- slightly larger maybe for some is average or maybe more large than "slightly". This is why I insisting that, if possible, you must trying in a shop or buying from a place with good returns policy.

Also, regarding the sound, I enjoy good separation, snares you can feel, etc. How would you describe the ST?

Separation is better in the iO-12 that you owning right now. But, in my opinion, the less separation in the ST isn't making the ST less good, honestly, and is maybe actually little more realistic in the whole presentation in this aspect (comparing with real life exposure to combined sounds playing at same time [band or orchestra]).

About snare drums, this is one important aspect that I mentioning in this thread one or two times, where I think the reproduction of this is excellent in the ST (in difference with so many others headphones wired or not). Better than the iO-12's reproduction of snare drums?? Unfortunately I don't have my ST anymore for giving you exactly the difference and which is better for me personally in this very important instrument. BUT I know that the iO-12's mids and treble reproduction is really very remarkable and I don't have complaints about snares (or cymbals, that is also very problematic with so many headphones/earphones).

The ST, if you're coming from the iO-12, will not impressing you immediately...and maybe the opposite, actually ("What is this sound for 1300 EUR/$1600 USD"?!), but if you give the ST few days, you maybe seeing what not pretentious sound and very natural sound is coming from this headphone... a sound that isn't 'spicing the food' for attracting your ears. If you reading this thread more, specially in the beginning, I often describing the sound as "boring", BUT a boring that becoming quickly very exciting for me and very true, a good clean window for sound.

 

[aaronjensen]

Like I saying before, the ST is very comfortable for me for long listening sessions, and is seem that, in general, is very comfortable for the several owners in this thread too (but some people, definitely not many, having problems with this).

About "big enough for average" ears? I think yes. "Slightly larger"? I don't know because, if I want being completely honest, I'm not sure what is 100% average or 100% "slightly larger" --- slightly larger maybe for some is average or maybe more large than "slightly". This is why I insisting that, if possible, you must trying in a shop or buying from a place with good returns policy.



Separation is better in the iO-12 that you owning right now. But, in my opinion, the less separation in the ST isn't making the ST less good, honestly, and is maybe actually little more realistic in the whole presentation in this aspect (comparing with real life exposure to combined sounds playing at same time [band or orchestra]).

About snare drums, this is one important aspect that I mentioning in this thread one or two times, where I think the reproduction of this is excellent in the ST (in difference with so many others headphones wired or not). Better than the iO-12's reproduction of snare drums?? Unfortunately I don't have my ST anymore for giving you exactly the difference and which is better for me personally in this very important instrument. BUT I know that the iO-12's mids and treble reproduction is really very remarkable and I don't have complaints about snares (or cymbals, that is also very problematic with so many headphones/earphones).

The ST, if you're coming from the iO-12, will not impressing you immediately...and maybe the opposite, actually ("What is this sound for 1300 EUR/$1600 USD"?!), but if you give the ST few days, you maybe seeing what not pretentious sound and very natural sound is coming from this headphone... a sound that isn't 'spicing the food' for attracting your ears. If you reading this thread more, specially in the beginning, I often describing the sound as "boring", BUT a boring that becoming quickly very exciting for me and very true, a good clean window for sound.

Thanks. I should also note that I don't intend to passively drive much, other than to hook them up to the QC35 II PC Gaming Controller... I actually wonder if that can drive them well enough. I don't know anything about its specs. I do this so that I can hook a boom mic up to them for wired calls.

 

[aaronjensen]

Like I saying before, the ST is very comfortable for me for long listening sessions, and is seem that, in general, is very comfortable for the several owners in this thread too (but some people, definitely not many, having problems with this).

About "big enough for average" ears? I think yes. "Slightly larger"? I don't know because, if I want being completely honest, I'm not sure what is 100% average or 100% "slightly larger" --- slightly larger maybe for some is average or maybe more large than "slightly". This is why I insisting that, if possible, you must trying in a shop or buying from a place with good returns policy.



Separation is better in the iO-12 that you owning right now. But, in my opinion, the less separation in the ST isn't making the ST less good, honestly, and is maybe actually little more realistic in the whole presentation in this aspect (comparing with real life exposure to combined sounds playing at same time [band or orchestra]).

About snare drums, this is one important aspect that I mentioning in this thread one or two times, where I think the reproduction of this is excellent in the ST (in difference with so many others headphones wired or not). Better than the iO-12's reproduction of snare drums?? Unfortunately I don't have my ST anymore for giving you exactly the difference and which is better for me personally in this very important instrument. BUT I know that the iO-12's mids and treble reproduction is really very remarkable and I don't have complaints about snares (or cymbals, that is also very problematic with so many headphones/earphones).

The ST, if you're coming from the iO-12, will not impressing you immediately...and maybe the opposite, actually ("What is this sound for 1300 EUR/$1600 USD"?!), but if you give the ST few days, you maybe seeing what not pretentious sound and very natural sound is coming from this headphone... a sound that isn't 'spicing the food' for attracting your ears. If you reading this thread more, specially in the beginning, I often describing the sound as "boring", BUT a boring that becoming quickly very exciting for me and very true, a good clean window for sound.

The measurements in your other post make it seem like the ear cups are similar in size to Bose qc, which I have used comfortably for years.

Does anyone know if the ST have a side tone feature for calls?

 

[avkauppi]

The measurements in your other post make it seem like the ear cups are similar in size to Bose qc, which I have used comfortably for years.

Does anyone know if the ST have a side tone feature for calls?

I can verify that the size of the ST cups is similar to Bose qc35. I have both. I don’t think that ST has sidetone feature. Maybe you could use transparency mode instead?

 

[aaronjensen]

I can verify that the size of the ST cups is similar to Bose qc35. I have both. I don’t think that ST has sidetone feature. Maybe you could use transparency mode instead?

The IO-12 force transparency mode for calls, which isn't too bad. I appreciate just having the voice come through, and I also appreciate the switch being automatic. Obviously, these are hi-fi headphones, not call center cans, but I'm looking for an all-in-one. I could maybe live w/ switching manually when I wanted it. I did that w/ the Px8 for a while.

Thanks for the information on the cups.

 

[aaronjensen]

Ok, I pulled the trigger. The return policy isn't without risk, but at this point I'm out of options, so hopefully this is the one for me.

I have a question about running these in passive mode. I've never done that before and I'm not sure I want to dive into it or if it's worth it for me. I think what I'd ideally want doesn't exist, and if I should ask in a different forum, I can, but what I want is something that could drive the Solitaire T with balanced wiring, but also had a way for me to hook up a TRRS to boom mic + 3.5mm TRS like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BJ17WKK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details AND have sidetone. So far, the only thing I've found that will let me do all of those things is this: https://legacy.presonus.com/products/Revelator-io44/tech-specs

But I have no idea if that dac/amp is good enough for anything (i.e., would bluetooth be better, heh). Any suggestions on this front? I'm not looking to spend a ton more money on this, but I can spend some.

Edit: I just found a reasonable software sidetone solution for macOS. Hardware would still be better, but I think this opens me up to any dac/amp that has a mic input. Looking at Schiit Hel+ maybe?

 

[StokeNewingtonJohn]

I would add that the T+A Solitaire T and Oppo PM3 also sound different from one another. The PM3 are semi-open Planars while the Solitaire T are dynamic headphones.

The PM3 operate at 26 Ohm / 102db while the Solitaire T operate at 64 Ohm / 106db. One would think this puts them fairly close to each other but in fact the Solitaire T are slightly more difficult to drive. To the SolT, the possibility of driving them in balanced mode definitely is an advantage.

Aside from that, being a semi-open Planar, the PM3 have a slightly better wider soundstage but also slightly dryer bass (typically Planar). In comparison I would say that the Solitaire T may have a slightly narrower soundstage but also a slightly warmer and more intimate sound (without sounding euphonic). And with a balanced cable and decent amp, the Solitaire scale up beautifully,

Although its been a while since I last owned and listened the PM3, my preference is squarely with the SolT. The PM3 are no slouch, but the SolT sound audibly more balanced and (to my ears) better and more enjoyable ...

(And that's without mentioning that by combining wired and wireless capabilities in a pair of headphones of which the target sound signature was realized first, before adding wireless capabilities, the SolT offer a much more complete package ...)Thats

Thank you. That's all helpful. I've been really happy with the PM3s, but the siren call of a major upgrade may be too much to resist.

 

[aaronjensen]

Ok, just got the Solitaire T. @angelom I'd say they sound pretty good to me out of the box. Not the same soundstage as the IO-12 at all, but they sound quite nice. Comfort wise, they seem to work for me, but I'll know more after I spend the day with them.

On the call side, the mic seems fine. The 2.5mm port works well for a boom mic when I want to be wired. The lack of sidetone is disappointing, and I don't think that conversation mode is a good substitute for it because it lowers the volume a decent amount.

I get a lot of static pops, not quite as bad as the Bose QC45/2023, but when stopping or skipping tracks, or switching modes, there are occasional pops that aren't pleasant.

I'm still debating an amp for them. I'm leaning towards the Schiit Hel+, but the Chord Mojo 2 came across my radar too. I'd still prefer something w/ a mic input for my desk, and portable doesn't matter for me. I'd want something that'd make these sound good, but I don't want to drop a lot of $. Mojo 2 is probably the most I'd spend. Compact is good too for my desk. Any suggestions?

 

[WDitters]

Schiit Hel+

You could also have a look at the JDS Labs series Element or Atom … But to be honest I haven’t heard those. I myself have settled on something a little higher up, the Cayin C9. Reason for this was its versatility.. (Solid state/Tube mode, Class A/AB, line-in and Pre-in)

But there are plenty options available at that level .. I’d say enjoy the investigation

 

[aaronjensen]

You could also have a look at the JDS Labs series Element or Atom … But to be honest I haven’t heard those. I myself have settled on something a little higher up, the Cayin C9. Reason for this was its versatility.. (Solid state/Tube mode, Class A/AB, line-in and Pre-in)

But there are plenty options available at that level .. I’d say enjoy the investigation

Thanks for the suggestion. That Cayin C9 looks nice... definitely outside of what I want to spend right now.

Have you noticed any of the popping I was describing? It happens quite often.. I play a track for a while, then pause it and it'll crackle in the right ear. Play again, crackles again.

 

[TheOneInYellow]

Ok, just got the Solitaire T. @angelom I'd say they sound pretty good to me out of the box. Not the same soundstage as the IO-12 at all, but they sound quite nice. Comfort wise, they seem to work for me, but I'll know more after I spend the day with them.

The soundstage is likely the only area where the Solitaire T concedes to the IO-12's, but in all other aspects, sonically the T are sublime for utterly natural sonics, passive wired and wireless.
@angelom has fantastic insight to sonic qualities, and the IO-12 do have their own addictive sonic signature according to his experience.

I have smaller ears so comfort and ergonomics of the Solitaire T are perfect for me. It helps that my experience with the Meze 99 Classics oval earpads helped me adjust to the (smaller) Solitaire T earpads too.

On the call side, the mic seems fine. The 2.5mm port works well for a boom mic when I want to be wired. The lack of sidetone is disappointing, and I don't think that conversation mode is a good substitute for it because it lowers the volume a decent amount.

I never needed an external mic for my Solitaire T when it comes to phone calls, but gaming is one area I wanted to explore.
Sadly, due to Sony's deliberate limitations for the PS5, it's a major hassle to get normal Bluetooth headphones to work with the console without using more accessories, so I just use official gaming headsets when I was game with friends.

Sidetone function has never been an interest of mine, and I never had a use case for it, which also explains how few wireless cans I've been interested have not featured them.
That said, I'd love if T+A could update both the Solitaire T and companion app to potentially add this feature, and allow users to change the Assistant button on the right earcup to a user choice, such as sidetone.
I don't think sidetone is a deal breaker feature for many, but of course if it is something required, their are cans that offer it.
Maybe in your case you could consider a cheap pair of wireless earbuds with sidetone just to have that feature for now, alongside your pair of Solitaire T?

I get a lot of static pops, not quite as bad as the Bose QC45/2023, but when stopping or skipping tracks, or switching modes, there are occasional pops that aren't pleasant.

Have you noticed any of the popping I was describing? It happens quite often.. I play a track for a while, then pause it and it'll crackle in the right ear. Play again, crackles again.

I have only ever heard pops if I overload my Solitaire T at high volume in passive balanced mode with my FiiO M17 (with this DAP set to DC input and Enhanced Over Ear Mode); that's when I know I'm listening far too loud. Blame the effortless scaling of the cans' addictive naturalness ha ha!

However, I have never had skipping or pops when using any audio apps, wireless or wired, to the Solitaire T.
Unless you can troubleshoot your source device (updates, delete cache, etc), perhaps consider contacting your dealer and request a swap to another pair.
Of course, please troubleshoot as much as you can first, maybe use another device to be on the safe side.

I'm still debating an amp for them. I'm leaning towards the Schiit Hel+, but the Moda 2 came across my radar too. I'd still prefer something w/ a mic input for my desk, and portable doesn't matter for me. I'd want something that'd make these sound good, but I don't want to drop a lot of $. Moda 2 is probably the most I'd spend. Compact is good too for my desk. Any suggestions?

This is a mindfield; we have an overflooded market of high quality amps and DAC's everywhere.

@WDitters is 100% correct, JDS Labs are king for sonic quality, objective measurements, and exceptional value. They are not the last word in sonic quality, but objectively, what any JDS Labs Atom amp version offers is astounding. It will be more than sufficient to power the Solitaire T.
Ditto your own consideration of Hel+ or Moda 2 (Verza Moda?).
Topping A50s is another powerful and affordable option too.
Or consider the recent Astell & Kern PA10, a portable amp (Class A) but no DAC.

Another recommendation is Chord Mojo 2 (single-ended, and wireless with Poly 2). This should also suffice.

If you want to use your phone as source, the FiiO BTR7 dongle is great too, with almost latest Bluetooth spec and SE + balanced outputs.

DAP's is crazy complicated to get into, but FiiO M15s is a great start imo.

There are a lot of options, so demo where you can, and consider features, benefits, lifestyle needs, and sonic quality to pair with your Solitaire T.

Hope this helps!