[angelom]

in the short listening session till now, i found ST has better details but less bass (aka less fun ). for my listening habit (e.g. pops and ACG mostly), i think 5909 is much more fun

If you listening to 5909 in BT-only mode (no ANC on) and no EQ, the bass in the ST is definitely better. You need increasing the bass in the app of the 5909 for similar bass level of factory bass in ST.

But when you have ANC on in the 5909 the bass is increasing very noticeably, so in this case probably lowering bass or leaving in 'normal' bass mode is best.

The bass in the 5909 is changing in every mode (BT/ANC/cabled). The great thing about the ST is that its tonal balance is VERY consistent in ALL the modes, and this is NOT common in ANC headphones.

For me the bass is ideal 95% of the time (except in some old masters), but I understand that some people wanting more lift in low frequencies because is their preference. I hope T+A updating the app with custom EQ soon (they confirming this) because now the "bass up" preset EQ setting is very high in bass for my taste.

but i just not really like the idea that a german brand with almost all products made in germany chose to build their high end wireless headphone in china

Is very possible that if the ST is made in Germany, T+A charging a lot more money. If the present price is already not option for some / many people, a ANC headphone costing (maybe) 1700-1900 euros (my guess) is even less good decision from business perspective.

I know that "Made in Germany / France / Austria / USA / UK, etc" is very important for some people, specially outside of this countries, but Apple and many other companies are manufacturing their products in China and keeping very good quality control. If this companies don't doing this, and charging a lot more for manufacturing in Europe / USA, sales very, very possibly decreasing substantially.

Is important understanding that the tech of the ST isn't like any other ANC headphone, and the research and development for achieving this by T+A is costing money. Some people already saying that they thinking the ST price is maybe low for what this headphone is offering.

People that buying a Patek Philippe aren't necessarily the same people that buying the ST.

 

[C_Lindbergh]

Would be interesting to have a leather option when it comes to earpads!

But doubt T+A will offer it... :/

And the sale volume is probably too low for third parties.

 

[ddlo]

If you listening to 5909 in BT-only mode (no ANC on) and no EQ, the bass in the ST is definitely better. You need increasing the bass in the app of the 5909 for similar bass level of factory bass in ST.

But when you have ANC on in the 5909 the bass is increasing very noticeably, so in this case probably lowering bass or leaving in 'normal' bass mode is best.

The bass in the 5909 is changing in every mode (BT/ANC/cabled). The great thing about the ST is that its tonal balance is VERY consistent in ALL the modes, and this is NOT common in ANC headphones.

For me the bass is ideal 95% of the time (except in some old masters), but I understand that some people wanting more lift in low frequencies because is their preference. I hope T+A updating the app with custom EQ soon (they confirming this) because now the "bass up" preset EQ setting is very high in bass for my taste.

thanks for the tips! i kept anc mode to low for both 5909 and ST but haven't try other modes. i'll explore more in the next few days.

Is very possible that if the ST is made in Germany, T+A charging a lot more money. If the present price is already not option for some / many people, a ANC headphone costing (maybe) 1700-1900 euros (my guess) is even less good decision from business perspective.

yes indeed. similar situation many chinese DAP manufacturers facing now i believed. from what i read online, seems the sales target is usually only a few thousands unit for each model they sold. fiio already mentioned the possibility that the might stop making android based DAP in the future due to the excessive development cost (even they already used standard package solutions from service provider to save the development cost). the cost on developing the software and compliance certification for an electronic product could be very high and likely make it infeasible for low volume niche market products. i guess a few thousands is already a very high annual sales target for high end headphones/iems. short product cycles also make things worse. i'm not from a business background but i suspect most of the development/certification cost is basically fixed cost that T+A might be able to substantially bring down by boasting the sales volume (lowering the price hoping for higher sales vol or spreading the fixed cost by expanding product family?) manufacturing cost differences in china against US/Germany/Japan may be not as big as many people will imagine. e.g. schiit makes most of their products in the US of A at a price comparable to chinese competitors. not to mention hifiman is charging similar prices (or even higher) price for their TOTL headphones against most other foreign brands.

I know that "Made in Germany / France / Austria / USA / UK, etc" is very important for some people, specially outside of this countries, but Apple and many other companies are manufacturing their products in China and keeping very good quality control. If this companies don't doing this, and charging a lot more for manufacturing in Europe / USA, sales very, very possibly decreasing substantially.

Is important understanding that the tech of the ST isn't like any other ANC headphone, and the research and development for achieving this by T+A is costing money. Some people already saying that they thinking the ST price is maybe low for what this headphone is offering.

People that buying a Patek Philippe aren't necessarily the same people that buying the ST.

it's not where the product is made in any particular country is bothering me. hifiman susvara is my favorite headphone (chinese made) and i think my fiio DAPs are better than my AK DAPs in many ways. it's just normal that a chinese brand manufactures in china. having said that, i prefer T+A, a brand proudly emphasis its root in Herford, Germany to stick to this proud tradition and commitment. i have the impression that apple and samsung (and many big names) moved away from this stage and no longer emphasising their image of being an american or korean brand and appealing themselves more of a world brand (talking about apple, they even spent the effort to make siri to operate in cantonese - a very small market comparing with putonghua using by most chinese ethnic groups). but it may be just me concerning this trivial matter (which is totally not related to sound quality or built quality ). Major watch brands know this sentiment very well and have moved away from the tradition using good (but accessible by other brands) calibers from specialist suppliers so they could make claims on "in-house movement".

 

[angelom]

it's not where the product is made in any particular country is bothering me. hifiman susvara is my favorite headphone (chinese made) and i think my fiio DAPs are better than my AK DAPs in many ways. it's just normal that a chinese brand manufactures in china. having said that, i prefer T+A, a brand proudly emphasis its root in Herford, Germany to stick to this proud tradition and commitment. i have the impression that apple and samsung (and many big names) moved away from this stage and no longer emphasising their image of being an american or korean brand and appealing themselves more of a world brand (talking about apple, they even spent the effort to make siri to operate in cantonese - a very small market comparing with putonghua using by most chinese ethnic groups). but it may be just me concerning this trivial matter (which is totally not related to sound quality or built quality ). Major watch brands know this sentiment very well and have moved away from the tradition using good (but accessible by other brands) calibers from specialist suppliers so they could make claims on "in-house movement".

Isn't interesting that with the (often not good, but frequently ignorant) reputation of products made in China that the word "porcelain" in English is actually also, and more common, the word "china"?

 

[angelom]

New review of the ST: https://musicphotolife.com/2023/01/ta-solitaire-t-review-audiophile-wireless-headphones/?amp

Is strange that the reviewer isn't mentioning the very important BT HQ mode, and only the standard BT mode. More evidence of this is that he's only mentioning 70 hours of battery life when BT HQ mode is have 35 hours.

 

[ddlo]

when i packing up for my trip next week, just found an odd design decision of the case. i found T+A spends the effort to add a divider between two cups for protection. but they (overlook?) don't provide a divider or any protection between the L cup and the yoke when folded. or T+A could choose to use some soft material on the inner surface of yoke. hope they could take care of this in the next gen product.

 

[TheOneInYellow]

when i packing up for my trip next week, just found an odd design decision of the case. i found T+A spends the effort to add a divider between two cups for protection. but they (overlook?) don't provide a divider or any protection between the L cup and the yoke when folded. or T+A could choose to use some soft material on the inner surface of yoke. hope they could take care of this in the next gen product.

I agree, this is a weird oversight, as metal burnishing marks will occur.

You can wipe those marks away (with a soft cloth and elbow grease, nothing else!), but if you leave them then it will get harder or stay.

It's common on watches with bracelets, where the end-links touch the watch case lugs; case-in-point are Tudor North Flag timepiece (which I own).

This burnishing is basically metals polishing each other.
The areas of the Solitaire T that are pearl blasted and textured will hardly get them, instead nicks and chips more likely over time depending on usage and general care (only so much babying one can do, and accidents happen).
However, the areas were it is smoother on the Solitaire T, specifically where you have stated on the lower regions of the headband, will have pronounced burnishing. Ditto the swivel arms to the upper earcups.

I'll look at these as well-loved marks, but I do often polish such marks as much as I can, knowing that, at least on the left lower headband side, it will be a fool's errand.
I'll be adding a soft material in that region as a divider when packing my cans for my piece of mind going forward.

 

[angelom]

when i packing up for my trip next week, just found an odd design decision of the case. i found T+A spends the effort to add a divider between two cups for protection. but they (overlook?) don't provide a divider or any protection between the L cup and the yoke when folded. or T+A could choose to use some soft material on the inner surface of yoke. hope they could take care of this in the next gen product.

I agree, this is a weird oversight, as metal burnishing marks will occur.

You can wipe those marks away (with a soft cloth and elbow grease, nothing else!), but if you leave them then it will get harder or stay.

I really think this is not a problem and still think the case is really very good.

I travelling with my pair and I putting the ST in the case several times in this last 10+ weeks (maybe 8 or 9 times). After ddlo's post, I quickly checking for marks and I see one exactly where he is mentioning (exactly where the metals are touching when ST is folded) but with simple breathing close to that part / mark, and quickly using my finger for wiping, the mark is completely disappeared.

 

[ddlo]

It's common on watches with bracelets, where the end-links touch the watch case lugs; case-in-point are Tudor North Flag timepiece (which I own).

This is a good point! those butterfly clasps are also rubbing the inner surface of watch bracelet, and also touching surfaces of the links. most of them are on the inside and not visible. still some hairline scratch marks are inevitably visible on the outward facing sides for metal bracelets.

probably should worry less and no need to baby headphones too much

I really think this is not a problem and still think the case is really very good.

I travelling with my pair and I putting the ST in the case several times in this last 10+ weeks (maybe 8 or 9 times). After ddlo's post, I quickly checking for marks and I see one exactly where he is mentioning (exactly where the metals are touching when ST is folded) but with simple breathing close to that part / mark, and quickly using my finger for wiping, the mark is completely disappeared.

that's great! indeed most metal iems i got also not providing a compartmentalized carrying bag/case (i think just campfire and justear do). just T+A already went the extra miles to provide the divider between cups, it seems to me it also makes sense to do the same between the yoke and folded L cup. but TheOneInYellow made a good point - it's the same situation for metal watch bracelets.

 

[Frabera]

I plan to use it with an iBasso DX240 which I found too punchy and a bit too bright as well, do you think the ST will help to reduce these elements by having a relax non agressif sound ?

 

[Daniel Johnston]

I plan to use it with an iBasso DX240 which I found too punchy and a bit too bright as well, do you think the ST will help to reduce these elements by having a relax non agressif sound ?

I would doubt it. The ST have some upper end sizzle that may be too much from what you describe of the DX240. I use the ST with the iBasso DX320 and Amp14 with excellent results.

 

[Frabera]

My DX240 is used with the Amp8 MK2 known to be quiet warm but it is not enough for me, the Amp14 should be exactly what requested but unfortunately cannot be used with the DX240.

 

[angelom]

I would doubt it. The ST have some upper end sizzle that may be too much from what you describe of the DX240. I use the ST with the iBasso DX320 and Amp14 with excellent results.

I don't have and never hearing the dx240 or dx320, so I can't saying anything about this DAPs, but I'm really very curious about your comment "the ST have some upper end sizzle". Your comment sounding like (maybe?) a negative aspect of the ST. I'm very aware of the very difficult / impossible task of finding the "perfect" sounding headphone. I'm asking genuinely because the one aspect that impressing me more from all aspects of the ST, from the first day until today, is its tonal balance. After 2.5 months my conclusion is that I never hearing a headphone (or earphone) with a more correct tonal balance, BT/ANC or wired.

I know that people having their preferences (you, me, everybody) about correct sound, and some people probably finding the ST boring, maybe lacking bass, lacking treble, not so big soundstage, etc., etc. But I want hearing more about your opinion about this "some upper end sizzle". One aspect I, personally, appreciating more and more...and more after all this time, and after so many albums and different genres, is that the tremendously (for me, in fact, the very more) difficult part of the spectrum reproducing correctly is precisely the upper registers. The ST, for me, is one example of reproduction of more high frequencies superbly, so, so correctly.

 

[angelom]

Ten things that I'm happy paying 200 euros extra if they are present, or improving, in the ST.

1. Multipoint connection.
2. Leather earpads.
3. Better implementation of touch controls, specially but not limited to volume control, like in the B&O H95. If doing this is too difficult, tactile buttons are absolutely fine like the excellent, quick for reaching, external buttons in the 6 years old B&W P7 Wireless.
4. 30 volume steps minimum (like other headphones offering) for Apple devices and not only 15/16. For audiophile headphone this is obligatory!
5. 3mm more large earpads.
6. Little more maximum volume still (even after December update) for old albums that needing this.
7. Having same external click button for changing from ANC, transparency, BT and HQ modes. Make disappear transparency touch in right ear cup.
8. Dimming of the lights, or even better switching off completely after 30 seconds, because they're very bright, specially in the night.
9. Make T+A logo in metal arms of ST more small / discreet, maybe changing colour to silver edged in the arms.
10. T+A logo in the case more small and not white but (dark) grey.

 

[Daniel Johnston]

I don't have and never hearing the dx240 or dx320, so I can't saying anything about this DAPs, but I'm really very curious about your comment "the ST have some upper end sizzle". Your comment sounding like (maybe?) a negative aspect of the ST. I'm very aware of the very difficult / impossible task of finding the "perfect" sounding headphone. I'm asking genuinely because the one aspect that impressing me more from all aspects of the ST, from the first day until today, is its tonal balance. After 2.5 months my conclusion is that I never hearing a headphone (or earphone) with a more correct tonal balance, BT/ANC or wired.

I know that people having their preferences (you, me, everybody) about correct sound, and some people probably finding the ST boring, maybe lacking bass, lacking treble, not so big soundstage, etc., etc. But I want hearing more about your opinion about this "some upper end sizzle". One aspect I, personally, appreciating more and more...and more after all this time, and after so many albums and different genres, is that the tremendously (for me, in fact, the very more) difficult part of the spectrum reproducing correctly is precisely the upper registers. The ST, for me, is one example of reproduction of more high frequencies superbly, so, so correctly.

It’s not a flaw to have a bit of sparkle in the treble. Real life instruments and live performances have some sparkle in the treble region. I personally find the treble overall accurate, but I have tinnitus and probably some treble hearing loss. The ST does not forgive bright recordings—even to my ears. Others who have listened to my ST (with better hearing) remark on the treble presence. His exact words were the treble on the track pierced right into his ear. It was not a negative comment.

Paired with a brighter source as the OP mentioned, that sparkle can be a bit much. The ST will not smooth out a bright source. Hence the sizzle comment.

Take for example a cymbal. In real life a cymbal crash can be quite piercing. A cymbal can also be less piercing and softer (I.e. jazz brush cymbals). The ST reproduces both accurately. Those sensitive to treble may find that a bit much depending on the recording. Take the Empyrean for a counter example where all treble is smoothed over and pleasant. No sizzle or sparkle. Even the harshest of 80s rock is tolerable, even good.

Accurate tonality is good. A well recorded song will sound amazing. I however just don’t listen to well recorded audiophile music. I listen to everything from ambient to zydeco. The ST do not hold punches when it comes to poorly mastered music.