[eucariote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punnisher /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't want upsampling/oversampling. Whatever input signal I give it, it should output as such.

But the input is digital and the output is analog..

And it's precisely the smoothing of a sawtooth signal to a continuous analog waveform that is improved by upsampling. (by not filtering away the top half of the frequency spectrum in the original recording, see Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem)

Be careful what you ask for

 

[h.rav]

Audio-gd DAC-19 & AMB/MisterX y2.

 

[earerror]

I am considering DacMagic for my new HA160...

 

[Ypoknons]

Say, chinesekiwi, would you be interested in something with opamp swapping? Like a Audiotrak HD2 or Dr. DAC 2, or maybe one of those Firestone DACs and a upgraded PSU?

(edit - right, which still wouldn't fix your requirements. Nevermind.)

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eucariote /img/forum/go_quote.gif But the input is digital and the output is analog.. And it's precisely the smoothing of a sawtooth signal to a continuous analog waveform that is improved by upsampling. (by not filtering away the top half of the frequency spectrum in the original recording, see Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem) Be careful what you ask for

However it is not audible to the human ear for a number of reasons.

See Dan Lavry's 'Sampling Theory For Digital Audio'.

Google PDF quick view of the document

Laymans = Page 26-27.

 

[najames]

I just received a MisterX Gamma 2 and am very impressed. I have no need to do any mods to this amazing little box.

However, I found part of the solution is the right PC hardware/drivers and software.
AV-710/drivers are much better than Realtek 889A/drivers evidently even though they both use optical out.

I also tested using foobar, MediaMonkey, and Win7 media player with various settings.

 

[eucariote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif However it is not audible to the human ear for a number of reasons. See Dan Lavry's 'Sampling Theory For Digital Audio'. Google PDF quick view of the document Laymans = Page 26-27.

The article makes the same point I did. To quote D. Lavry,
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Lavry /img/forum/go_quote.gif ..go to page 3 and look at the plot called SIN(X)/X plots for X2, X4, X8 and X16 (the bottom plot). These plots represent your frequency response (amplitude vs. frequency). Note that I DID NOT EVEN BOTHER to show a NOS which is fs. I started at X2fs, and even at X2fs you lose around .75dB by the time you get to at 20KHz. At fs (NOS) the loss is around 1.5dB. In short, you lose amplitude as you go to higher audible frequencies. ... Up-sampling and oversampling are major steps forward, and filtering is there for a reason. They solve the problems I pointed out. Filtering of NOS is a real problem, an unfiltered NOS is even worse. Ups-sampling a DA solves the response problem and enables good filtering of the unwanted high frequency (image energy).

I was similarly pointing out a filtering problem of of NOS, which is that it cannot render (the top half of the frequencies of) the music signal. That may be mostly audible to dogs, but it is still a demonstration that NOS cannot in fact preserve the original signal when it is reconstruced to an analogue signal.

The problem of image energy does get worse with very high oversampling (16x) as you point out. But the kind of filtering problem I was refering to by the link to the Nyqiust theorem would be addressed nicely nicely with about 2x oversampling. To quote Lavry again from the paper,

"Sampling twice as fast, makes the NRZ time interval half as long, thus closer to the theortical flat response. The "sinc filter shape" is moved up by an octave, but doubling the number of samples, overcomes amplitude attenuation. Sampling at twice the speed also provides an "energy free zone" between the desirable frequency band and the undesirable out of band frequencies. Our filter is steep enough to remove all unwanted high frequencies. In fact, the cutoff can be moved higher to pass all the inband with minimal attenuation and phase distortions."

On a totally unrelated note, can I ask why you ruled out the DacMagic from your DAC search?

 

[Currawong]

My suggesitons are: For new, DAC19, for second-hand, one of of the vintage Parasound or Assemblage DACs if you can find one in that price range (similar concept: PCM1704UK x2 or x4, excellent power supplies and whatnot). All will give you a less digital and more "natural-sounding" reproduction of vocals and instruments.

 

[Shahrose]

I think you're very smart to dismiss some of the FOTM options for more established ones cw. I would recommend the y2 (and I have the Musiland 02US...it's definitely a cut below the y2). The other option (if you can't go for a y2), is a Parasound vintage DAC, which I think play in the same league as the y2.

 

[transient orca]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you're very smart to dismiss some of the FOTM options...

Which ones are you referring to?

 

[Currawong]

He's referring to the Audio-gd DAC I mentioned. I ended up buying the best Audio-gd DAC because of an experience I had trying a "vintage" DAC. When I found out they were making much the same kind of DAC I bought one. I accept they are FOTM somewhat, but so are the Parasounds on the second-hand market among some people. I have gone out of my way to try and compare my DAC with others so I'm not just another person talking out of their arse when I recommend something. Just thought I'd say.

The y2 is on my list of things to eventually build as a possible part of a transportable rig actually. I've seen quite a few people who have been through a few DACs like it (as opposed to people who just upgraded from their onboard sound who are over-excited by the difference) so I want to give one a go.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you're very smart to dismiss some of the FOTM options for more established ones cw. I would recommend the y2 (and I have the Musiland 02US...it's definitely a cut below the y2). The other option (if you can't go for a y2), is a Parasound vintage DAC, which I think play in the same league as the y2.

Well, I expect the 02 US to be a cut below the Gamma2
But yeah, I've fallen for FOTM before so I am extra cautious. I always look for the critical posts tbh as they usually contain far more info than the hyped-up ones + I know the flaws of Head-fi, FOTM being one of them (and K701 fanbois).
Anyway, I ruled out the DACMagic from the mix as there was someone with the 02 US and compared it directly to the DacMagic and sometimes he couldn't tell which was which + I've read many DacMagic vs. compares.

Anyway, I won't be buying for a while but more looking to what I should target.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif He's referring to the Audio-gd DAC I mentioned.

Silly Currawong. That's not what I was referring to.

My comment wasn't directed at any one product, but was to convey the fact that FOTM purchases are risky and it's always best to go for the tried and tested products. Oh and I was referring to cw = chinesekiwi, not you. Sorry for the confusion.

Edit: BTW, to the OP, the y2 is disappointing if you use just its USB input (there was very little difference between the y2 and Pico when the y2 was running from USB). I didn't think it sounded better overall than the 02US when used that way (except for the bass), and it was only a little better than the STX. You need to use the y2's coaxial input to get the most out of it. The difference between USB and coax isn't subtle IMO.

 

[Cankin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I expect the 02 US to be a cut below the Gamma2 But yeah, I've fallen for FOTM before so I am extra cautious. I always look for the critical posts tbh as they usually contain far more info than the hyped-up ones + I know the flaws of Head-fi, FOTM being one of them (and K701 fanbois). Anyway, I ruled out the DACMagic from the mix as there was someone with the 02 US and compared it directly to the DacMagic and sometimes he couldn't tell which was which + I've read many DacMagic vs. compares. Anyway, I won't be buying for a while but more looking to what I should target.

Which headphones or product don't have fanboys on HF anyways?

back to topic, I'd second the recommendation on Parasound. The D/AC 1100 is really good and you should be able to get one for your budget.

Some other upcoming DACs are worth considering like Emotiva DAC (around USD $300) or ARCAM DAC (sub £300)

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Edit: BTW, to the OP, the y2 is disappointing if you use just its USB input (there was very little difference between the y2 and Pico when the y2 was running from USB). I didn't think it sounded better overall than the 02US when used that way (except for the bass), and it was only a little better than the STX. You need to use the y2's coaxial input to get the most out of it. The difference between USB and coax isn't subtle IMO.

I plan to use optical / coax anyway.