[estreeter]

Quote:

I have a successful story to share on the topic:
 
I have used:
flac files on Patriot Gauntlet Node (portable battery-powered NAS) -> SAMBA streaming -> AcePlayer Pro app -> iPhone 3GS w/ IOS 5.
 

 
It doesnt seem to have its own dedicated display, from what I can see in the photos. project86 was very specific re his requirements back in the OP:
 
1) The device needs to handle FLAC files. I consider this the standard for serious listening.
 
2) It needs to have a dedicated display, capable of file navigation and most other basic functions. The majority of us don’t have (or want to have) a monitor in our listening systems.
 
3) The device must have a digital output for use with an outboard DAC. It can be toslink, coaxial, or AES/EBU. It doesn’t matter as long as it is digital. This will keep it relevant should the user ever want to upgrade.
 
Some might argue that using a tablet/smartphone as your 'display' is an even better solution, but I dont think your PGN meets the criteria. P86 ?

 

[glcohen]

Correct.  All my equipment is switched on and off at the mains by my pre amp so this is a major annoyance.

 

[zzffnn]

It doesnt seem to have its own dedicated display, from what I can see in the photos. project86 was very specific re his requirements back in the OP:

1) The device needs to handle FLAC files. I consider this the standard for serious listening.

2) It needs to have a dedicated display, capable of file navigation and most other basic functions. The majority of us don’t have (or want to have) a monitor in our listening systems.

3) The device must have a digital output for use with an outboard DAC. It can be toslink, coaxial, or AES/EBU. It doesn’t matter as long as it is digital. This will keep it relevant should the user ever want to upgrade.

Some might argue that using a tablet/smartphone as your 'display' is an even better solution, but I dont think your PGN meets the criteria. P86 ?

^ iPhone does 1) and 2) (iPhone receives and plays flac files using an AcePlayerPro program, as well as offering sufficient display for my use - album / song name and play/forward/rewind/stop).

An iPhone dock like Pure i20, together with iPhone, can fulfil 3) (i.e., output coaxial or optical digital signal to an external DAC, for example my Gamma2 DAC).

I am using this rig (PGN+iPhone 3GS) portably in real life; They would not stay with me if they do not play flac or have no display (who would want such a device without display?). Please read details in my own thread (especially post #2 and page 5-6), which can be found in my signature.

 

[glcohen]

I have just heard from NAD that in their future software release for the C446 the Last.fm logon will stay in memory even after a switch off !

 

[project86]

I sort of broke my own rule (about having a front panel display and controls) when I got the Auraliti PK90 music server. It's interesting how much of a different experience it can be when you don't have to push buttons or look at the device that is playing the music. There's sort of a mental disconnect: I know that the iPad is not really playing the music, but somehow I now associate it with that high level of sound quality. Then when I use it from the headphone jack, I'm severely disappointed!
 
I'm getting used to the whole "tablet as remote" thing though (using mPad or sometimes just NeoMPC through a web browser) and I really like the simplicity of the PK90. And the price. I can't believe this little thing isn't more popular. 

 

[hugol]

Has anybody heard something about the Denon DNP-F109 ? I just saw it in a recent visit to a German audio store. The unit is part of a micro/mini system D-F109 but it can be purchased separately.
 

As far as I understand, it fulfils all the requirements of the devices that are being reviewed here. It is priced at 399 euros on the German website of Denon. 
 
Some highlights:
 
 

1. Network audio player with Wi-Fi and Ethernet connectivity
2. DLNA 1.5 certified for reliable audio streaming and wide
3. compatibility
4. AirPlay direct music streaming from iPad, iPhone, iPod touch
5. and iTunes library
6. “Play to” from WMP12 or higher
7. Supports WMA / MP3 / WAV 192/24 / AAC / ALAC
8. FLAC HD 192/24
9. Internet radio by vTuner and support of
10. Last.fm* online service
11. Direct play for iPod and iPhone via rear USB
12. Coaxial digital and analogue output
13. Denon Remote App for iOS and Android
14. Support Wi-Fi Multimedia (WMM)

 
more info: http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/pages/Product-Detail.aspx?CatId=systems&SubId=minimicro&ProductId=DNPF109
 
Any thoughts?

 

[project86]

Hey, that does look pretty nice. It checks a lot of the boxes that Denon's prior unit (the DNP-720AE) was missing such as hi-res FLAC support and coaxial output (that unit only had Toslink). I'll see if I can find the time to check it out - paired with the matching DCD-F109 CD player for those of us who still spin CDs, and a nice DAC and headphone amp, that could make a killer minimalist setup. 
 
I had zero luck trying to contact Denon for review on the older model though. So we'll see. 

 

[ELCH]

Hi, great article with lots of very useful information! Many thanks!
Did you ever test the Pioneer N-50? It might be a great choice, specially in terms of having the option to use it as an excellent external D/A converter via USB connection.
Please also compare to the Marantz NA-7004.
BR, /G

 

[ELCH]

Hi project86, after my first reply today I saw that you already own the Pioneer N-50 and announced testing it. I could not find any review about it from you. What´s your opinion and experiences with the N-50 please? In case you already put that out on the web could you pls send the link to that location? Thanks.
cheers, /G
 
On 1/26/12 you wrote: I've got the new Pioneer N-50 "Audiophile Networked Audio Player" on the way to me for review. Looking forward to checking it out.

 

[project86]

My N-50 review is in there on the first page. But I recognize that it can be difficult to wade through all the pictures. HERE is a direct link to the review in a different location, perhaps a bit easier to read. Unfortunately I haven't heard the Marantz unit so I can't comment on that.

 

[timoxx4]

Hi all,
 
New to the scene here and was just wondering if anyone could help me with any suggestions for one of these units or something like it for my needs ?
 
I have just got me some BEYERDYNAMIC DT770 80Ohm Cans and i am just finding out my Cowon J3 mp3 player doesn't sound good enough. Not detailed enough. My PC headphone out sounds heaps better and that's just onboard sound no sound card. But i am after something i can listen to in bed away from the PC so am interested in one of these media players.
 
Ok so i am looking for any suggestions for something that can play and sort through files from an USB flash drive mostly. Doesn't need to be a streaming device at all or connect to the network. But i do like a lcd screen to sort through my audio tracks and such.
 
Needs to have some way of adjusting the Bass and treble. I am a Bass head and to me even the DT770 80Ohm i like to boost the bass and treble still with anything i have it plugged into. So yeah an EQ is a must for me.
 
All in one unit would be great. Media player, DAC and headphone amp in one with headphone out.
 
Budget would be around the $1000 - $1500 mark if i can source one locally in Australia.
 
Thanks for any help,
Tim.

 

[zzffnn]

^ Welcome to Headfi.

If all your music can fit into a 64GB microSDXC, I would suggest to use your Cowon J3 with the SD card and add a headphone amp. You can still use EQ of J3. Most amps do not offer treble boost. An amp should add "details" to your DT770s.

I suggest getting an Objective2 amp with ODAC integrated (cost is less than $350 USD). It is portable, battery powered and can also enhance your computer's sound significantly. If you use a Samsung S3 to run an external hard drive through a powered USB hub and output digital through USB, an ODAC/O2 can work as DAC/amp to enhance sound as well. With J3 and EQ, you can still use the O2's amp portion to amp J3's headphone output.

If you have to get an amp with treble boost, Fiio E17 likely does that. But I heard it is not as good as O2/ODAC.

 

[ELCH]

Dear project86,
many thanks, your article is of great value to me. It´s brilliant and finally summarizes my impression on the N-50, expecially that it is a great DAC and looses somewhat as soon as you are using the streaming opportunities of the system ("A few limitations of note" in your review). Especially that it is restricted to some file formats here and not covering AIFF (for me personally that is what I would have needed) is some kind of draw back.
Now facing DACs only and leaving the streaming stuff behind it would be great to hear your opinion her: How do you feel about the TEAC UD H-01 DAC? Does it come up with the same sound quality than the N-50 (used with USB connection as a pure DAC)? In terms of the 24/192 capabilities over USB the seem to be the same. But what about the final sound?
I am thinking to go for the TEAC UD H-01 or a Cambridge DACmagic (plus) ... instead of the N-50 since I am looking for best performance and a DAC (over USB) primarily.
In case you want to read a german article (the best german N-50 article I could find) which is worth reading about the N-50, please visit: 
http://www.hifitest.de/test/dlna-_netzwerk-_clients_server_player/pioneer-n-50_5834.php#. 
Sorry that review is not written in english. Maybe an online translator can do. It pretty much comes to the same conclusions than you do though your description is much more detailled and accurate.
Many thanks, BR, Elch

 

[timoxx4]

Quote:

^ Welcome to Headfi.
If all your music can fit into a 64GB microSDXC, I would suggest to use your Cowon J3 with the SD card and add a headphone amp. You can still use EQ of J3. Most amps do not offer treble boost. An amp should add "details" to your DT770s.
I suggest getting an Objective2 amp with ODAC integrated (cost is less than $350 USD). It is portable, battery powered and can also enhance your computer's sound significantly. If you use a Samsung S3 to run an external hard drive through a powered USB hub and output digital through USB, an ODAC/O2 can work as DAC/amp to enhance sound as well. With J3 and EQ, you can still use the O2's amp portion to amp J3's headphone output.
If you have to get an amp with treble boost, Fiio E17 likely does that. But I heard it is not as good as O2/ODAC.

Hi zzffnn,
 
Yeah already got an O2 amp (no odac though) and i find it didn't sound any different with the Cowon J3. I think the J3 is just not good enough. It suppresses all the details in the music. I have messed with all the EQ settings and BBE it has to offer with no improvement. I have an Archos android tablet and with it connected to the O2 sounds a lot better than the J3 ? Heaps more detail. Plus the background hiss that's present in the J3 is not there with the Android tablet even at MAX volume on O2 and tablet. J3 has very loud hiss when connected to O2 amp. Its just not that good of a player i don't think. All the hype talked about them i am just not hearing it. Sounds a bit rubbish compared to my PC and cheap low grade tablet.
 
So i am after something a LOT LOT better. Not portable. Something really HiFi with much better sound.
 
I am finding a lot of these streaming devices don't seem to offer any Bass/treble controls though which is a bit of a deal breaker for me ? Or else i might have got the Pioneer N-50.
 
I also thought about something like a squeezebox connected to a separate DAC then to my O2. But i couldn't find any DAC's with Bass/Treble controls either ? Not sure if the squeeze box would have Bass/Treble control out its digital outs either ?
 
Only other option i could think of would be a preamp after the DAC squeezebox combo ? That's getting to be a lot of extra devices though and i don't think i could afford all that or cope with all the stuff to power up and down. Just a one or two box solution is all i was after but doesn't seem to exist ?

 

[project86]

Quote:

Dear project86,
many thanks, your article is of great value to me. It´s brilliant and finally summarizes my impression on the N-50, expecially that it is a great DAC and looses somewhat as soon as you are using the streaming opportunities of the system ("A few limitations of note" in your review). Especially that it is restricted to some file formats here and not covering AIFF (for me personally that is what I would have needed) is some kind of draw back.
Now facing DACs only and leaving the streaming stuff behind it would be great to hear your opinion her: How do you feel about the TEAC UD H-01 DAC? Does it come up with the same sound quality than the N-50 (used with USB connection as a pure DAC)? In terms of the 24/192 capabilities over USB the seem to be the same. But what about the final sound?
I am thinking to go for the TEAC UD H-01 or a Cambridge DACmagic (plus) ... instead of the N-50 since I am looking for best performance and a DAC (over USB) primarily.
In case you want to read a german article (the best german N-50 article I could find) which is worth reading about the N-50, please visit: 
http://www.hifitest.de/test/dlna-_netzwerk-_clients_server_player/pioneer-n-50_5834.php#. 
Sorry that review is not written in english. Maybe an online translator can do. It pretty much comes to the same conclusions than you do though your description is much more detailled and accurate.
Many thanks, BR, Elch

 
I've got no experience with the Teac DAC so I can't say how well it would compare with the N50. Sorry.
 
Thanks for the link though - I read it using Chrome translate and got the general idea.
 
Quote:

Hi zzffnn,
 
Yeah already got an O2 amp (no odac though) and i find it didn't sound any different with the Cowon J3. I think the J3 is just not good enough. It suppresses all the details in the music. I have messed with all the EQ settings and BBE it has to offer with no improvement. I have an Archos android tablet and with it connected to the O2 sounds a lot better than the J3 ? Heaps more detail. Plus the background hiss that's present in the J3 is not there with the Android tablet even at MAX volume on O2 and tablet. J3 has very loud hiss when connected to O2 amp. Its just not that good of a player i don't think. All the hype talked about them i am just not hearing it. Sounds a bit rubbish compared to my PC and cheap low grade tablet.
 
So i am after something a LOT LOT better. Not portable. Something really HiFi with much better sound.
 
I am finding a lot of these streaming devices don't seem to offer any Bass/treble controls though which is a bit of a deal breaker for me ? Or else i might have got the Pioneer N-50.
 
I also thought about something like a squeezebox connected to a separate DAC then to my O2. But i couldn't find any DAC's with Bass/Treble controls either ? Not sure if the squeeze box would have Bass/Treble control out its digital outs either ?
 
Only other option i could think of would be a preamp after the DAC squeezebox combo ? That's getting to be a lot of extra devices though and i don't think i could afford all that or cope with all the stuff to power up and down. Just a one or two box solution is all i was after but doesn't seem to exist ?

 
An iPad 2 for a decent price might be a good option for you, paired with a digital dock like the Pure i20, Cambridge iD100, etc. Or just use the Camera Connection Kit to pair it with a USB DAC (only certain models work though, so you'll need to research). You can then use EQu or Equalizer Pro or any number of other apps to play your music and tailor it to your liking.