[Cousin Patty]

Well this is going spendidly

 

[Daryn Alexander]

From COEM:

Hi Daryn,

I can verify that I placed my order way before many head-fi members did.
I will check my records and get back to you with a confirmed date.

I haven't placed any new orders yet, Ken still needs to send out the outstanding orders to head-fi members.

Shipping took about 5 days.

I do follow the Storm treads on head-fi, I don't like the latest one, but feel free to email me if you need any more info.
I have decided not to post in Storm threads, just in case COEM Audio gets dragged in to the mess.
I'm sure someone will say "COEM are in on the scam" or something silly.


Cheers
John

So basically, that part is true. Whether or not there were Head-fiers before who have not received their units is not known. But COEM isn't in on anything certainly. Basically, my concern is did Ken bypass any Headfier in the queue to make his product available on COEM?

 

[Cousin Patty]

From what I understand, Ken is fixing some things (like the transformer issue) and upgrading some stuff (the top lid, adding vents). So, if this is true, then great. I dont have a problem with him taking more time with the head-fi'ers units as long as the deadline is met. Like I said in another thread, at this point I dont care if I get the DAC or not. Its been so long since I paid, I've moved on. So if he wants to take til the 28th or whatever to make them better, then who cares... if I get the DAC, its just bonus at this point. At least for me...

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fran /img/forum/go_quote.gif So it seems that aside from this thread there ain't much place to talk about the whole thing! I say talk away and comment as you want. If it upsets you, don't read this thread!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula /img/forum/go_quote.gif That was along the lines of my thinking... I just wanted somewhere to post on the matter where people can't reasonably get upset.

So this is the thread where we share our intimate most thoughts on Ken Law and Storm Digital. Can we at least agree that holding hands and telling each other how we feel has no relationship whatsoever to a resolution?


Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Any picture of any new thing being worked on, where people have paid or are expected to pay money for it - is advertizing.

That's a pretty unfortunate view of this great site of ours. You're really trying to suggest that any post that contains a picture of a product is advertising? That's absurd. Head-Fi is not an advertising forum. It's a headphones forum, where members post information and pictures about things they're passionate about.

Here is a definition of advertising: The activity of attracting public attention to a product or business, as by paid announcements in the print, broadcast, or electronic media. I have seen no advertising for the Storm Pandora posted here. An impressions thread with pictures certainly doesn't qualify. If that did, I imagine just about every member would be in violation of the site's terms of service.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryn Alexander /img/forum/go_quote.gif From COEM: Hi Daryn, I can verify that I placed my order way before many head-fi members did. I will check my records and get back to you with a confirmed date. I haven't placed any new orders yet, Ken still needs to send out the outstanding orders to head-fi members. Shipping took about 5 days. I do follow the Storm treads on head-fi, I don't like the latest one, but feel free to email me if you need any more info. I have decided not to post in Storm threads, just in case COEM Audio gets dragged in to the mess. I'm sure someone will say "COEM are in on the scam" or something silly. Cheers John So basically, that part is true. Whether or not there were Head-fiers before who have not received their units is not known. But COEM isn't in on anything certainly. Basically, my concern is did Ken bypass any Headfier in the queue to make his product available on COEM?

Does it say anything at all to you that COEM, a reputable hi-fi audio retailer, still has a relationship to Ken Law? Are you completely overlooking what John said in his e-mail to you? He said he doesn't like this latest thread. He referred to it as a "mess," and he implied that it was "silly."

I honestly can't put a finger on just what it is you're trying to pursue. Are you conducting an investigation? What do you hope to accomplish?

 

[plainsong]

Superpredator, you completely missed the point. I said, more than once I think, this was in no way head-fi's responsiblity. People post pictures, it's a reasonable feature of most forums, but the posting of a picture of something people have waited a year for, only to see someone who's not them has it, and to tempt new buyers as it is doing, is just wrong. It's not against head-fi rules nor should it be, it's against the rules of common sense.

I'd like to note that when confronted directly, Ken ran from this thread. Hopefully that means he's busy sending out what people rightfully bought.

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Superpredator, you completely missed the point. I said, more than once I think, this was in no way head-fi's responsiblity. People post pictures, it's a reasonable feature of most forums, but the posting of a picture of something people have waited a year for, only to see someone who's not them has it, and to tempt new buyers as it is doing, is just wrong. It's not against head-fi rules nor should it be, it's against the rules of common sense. I'd like to note that when confronted directly, Ken ran from this thread. Hopefully that means he's busy sending out what people rightfully bought.

You called it advertising, and that is the point I addressed.

 

[Daryn Alexander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superpredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does it say anything at all to you that COEM, a reputable hi-fi audio retailer, still has a relationship to Ken Law? Are you completely overlooking what John said in his e-mail to you? He said he doesn't like this latest thread. He referred to it as a "mess," and he implied that it was "silly." I honestly can't put a finger on just what it is you're trying to pursue. Are you conducting an investigation? What do you hope to accomplish?

No it doesn't. They don't hang out on the weekends. COEM orders stock from Storm Digital. Storm Digital then sends it to them, then they sell it. Is that not how it works? If you're presuming that COEM audio is giving a shining endorsement to Storm Digital and all Ken Law does simply by ordering their product, I'd refer you back to COEM's response. I asked a question, it was answered, and that's where it ends.

I want this fraud off of Head-fi before anyone is convinced to throw their money away. I will not restate everything for you, just read my last posts on why. That's what I want. And if not that, at least to express my concern and disgust. I am not the only one with this concern, just the most vocal. The reason for that is the fact that now people are trying to limit the discussion of Ken's fraudulent behavior in favor of discussing his products. It should be the other way around.

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superpredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here is a definition of advertising: The activity of attracting public attention to a product or business, as by paid announcements in the print, broadcast, or electronic media.

Thank you for a definition of advertising. Here's some more:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dictionary.com 1.the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc., esp. by paid announcements in newspapers and magazines, over radio or television, on billboards, etc.: to get more customers by advertising. 2.paid announcements; advertisements. 3.the profession of planning, designing, and writing advertisements.

And here's some definitions for advertise:
Quote:

Originally Posted by dictionary.com 1.to announce or praise (a product, service, etc.) in some public medium of communication in order to induce people to buy or use it: to advertise a new brand of toothpaste. 2.to give information to the public about; announce publicly in a newspaper, on radio or television, etc.: to advertise a reward. 3.to call attention to, in a boastful or ostentatious manner: Stop advertising yourself!

It may not be direct advertising in the strictest of definition, but it can definitely be interpreted as advertising (it doesn't have to be by paid announcement to be advertising). I'm not accusing hugz of intentionally advertising; I'm just saying that I believe it is a legitimate statement that hugz's glowing impressions thread of the Pandora could be considered advertising.

To clarify, I'm not trying to associate hugz with Ken Law or any of the mess he has caused. I do not believe he intends to advertise for Ken Law and honestly just wanted to post impressions of a new DAC.

 

[Daryn Alexander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver /img/forum/go_quote.gif "I hate to see people get ripped off and taken advantage of" If you look at what happened logically- Ken told everyone when the DAC should be ready and about 2 weeks before the date arrived people panicked and they started filing PayPal claims and legal action against Ken. This at a crucial time and they ruined any chance of him being able to complete the project.

That is not what happened by any stretch of the imagination. Ken used his friend's paypal account, Alvin Fok. It was at least a month after Ken stopped speaking to people that people attempted to get refunds. Every date he had given had passed, and he'd given quite a few. It was even longer that the "Action Against Storm Digital" thread was open, and he only thing to be done was contacting the HK police. Most of them could not ger refunds because the time had passed.

Before that fiasco, pthe first wave of people were complaining about receiving damaged units, poorly soldered, and having an extremely long wait time. People still ordered after that, and those are the people out 500 bucks.

edit: I'd really like to know where Hugz was in the order queue. Nothing against Hugz, either. When I asked Ken directly amongst other things, he just said he wasn't reading this thread anymore.

 

[Daryn Alexander]

doublepost.

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryn Alexander /img/forum/go_quote.gif No it doesn't. They don't hang out on the weekends. COEM orders stock from Storm Digital. Storm Digital then sends it to them, then they sell it. Is that not how it works? If you're presuming that COEM audio is giving a shining endorsement to Storm Digital and all Ken Law does simply by ordering their product, I'd refer you back to COEM's response. I asked a question, it was answered, and that's where it ends.

And I'll refer you back to COEM's response. Here is some of the exact language used by John in the e-mail to you.

I do follow the Storm treads on head-fi, I don't like the latest one...

I have decided not to post in Storm threads, just in case COEM Audio gets dragged in to the mess.

I'm sure someone will say "COEM are in on the scam" or something silly.

COEM didn't just answer your question. If you can't read between the lines and comprehend what John is saying to you, clearly there is something wrong with your ability to process information.

Let me explain my reasoning on the whole endorsement thing. It stands to reason that COEM, in light of the controversy surrounding Ken and his business, would make damn sure they knew who they were dealing with. If COEM suspected Ken of being the ripoff fraud liar you're accusing him to be, it follows that they would probably not be doing business with him. Since they are doing business with him, logic dictates that there is a distinct possibility that they are reasonably sure he's legitimate.

I'm not saying Ken's legitimate. As I've said many times, I don't have that information. I'm just trying to help you digest an e-mail you posted to this thread.

I can see progress here is unlikely. I may stop in for fun once in a while, but for now I am going to leave you people to your Bizarro World Kumbaya.

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you for a definition of advertising... To clarify, I'm not trying to associate hugz with Ken Law or any of the mess he has caused. I do not believe he intends to advertise for Ken Law and honestly just wanted to post impressions of a new DAC.

The point remains that I do not believe posting impressions and pictures is advertising. If it is, then this is a community of members who advertise to each other. I find that notion disgusting.

 

[plainsong]

Well then we're all disgusting then. Hugz posted some pics, it won't go down in history as the brightest idea ever on Head-fi, it wasn't illegal, it wasn't against TOS, it wasn't shilling for Ken, it just sucked, that's all.

So now that we've figured out that we're all disgusting, and that some posters are optimistic to the extreme, and that zero questions were answered by the one person in a position to answer them, can we go home now?

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superpredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you can't read between the lines and comprehend what John is saying to you, clearly there is something wrong with your ability to process information

uhh, wow.
I thought, up until and including the now, that the only thing that is flippin' clear here is the orders of many good hearted headfier's that have not been delivered, no?
Seems like a useful thread idea, as the other thread is somewhat limited to additional comments or posts for those directly ripped off.

Frankly, it is kind of gross that this process has gone on this long and the member(s) responsible, if can be id'd that is, should be banned from this domain. Legal action may be pursued as appropriate on a case by case basis to the affected if plausable. I for one am sick to my stomach seeing the sticky threads on the welcome page every day for what seems like a year or more, and hey, some may wonder how this hoser still has people coming to him with net new orders?? AND the new orders coming Via headfi no less. If there are unfinished orders that which have not been filled, credited, or given ethical resolve to, the focus should be on the physical procurement and delivery of the goods in which payment has been provided for.

Not jumping all the way in here, because much is flying around this thread, but personally feel for those that have lost their money and all this time trying to collect back or produce receipt for a good they already paid in full for.
shame

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well then we're all disgusting then. Hugz posted some pics, it won't go down in history as the brightest idea ever on Head-fi, it wasn't illegal, it wasn't against TOS, it wasn't shilling for Ken, it just sucked, that's all. So now that we've figured out that we're all disgusting, and that some posters are optimistic to the extreme, and that zero questions were answered by the one person in a position to answer them, can we go home now?

That's an incredible leap, plainsong. What I said was that I find notion of us advertising to each other disgusting. That's a gross concept, isn't it? That our genuine, heartfelt communication about the things we love could be labeled advertising? As I said I do not think posting impressions and pictures is advertising, thus I do not think we are disgusting. I don't think anyone on Head-Fi is disgusting, least of all you.

I do think this thread is filled with a lot of misinformation, as evidenced by the most recent post that went up. It clearly got several major facts wrong, which is what happens when people start making absolute statements on issues on which there is little absolute information to be found.

I firmly believe that the majority of the discourse here adds nothing positive to the issue. I have nothing against the OP starting this thread, and I actually commended him for starting it. There are many points you and others have raised that I have agreed are good questions, if you recall. I have found n_maher's posts very coherent. Hell, I just plain like the guy! I don't think his posts helped anyone, but he offered a balanced perspective on the issue that I completely respect.

I imagine I might be making myself some enemies by posting here, but I can't in good conscience sit by and watch the mob inject themselves into an extremely flammable issue that doesn't require or benefit from their input. I have tried to stay objective and reasonable since I started posting on this topic back in April, and hopefully that's how I come off to most people. I am not here because I enjoy these arguments, and I would prefer that we all just wait for Ken to either make or not make his next move come the end of July. If the mob wants to riot after that point, so be it.

If this is the thread where anyone gets to discuss their thoughts on the Ken/Storm issue, I presume that my presence here is acceptable. If the OP asks, I'll stop posting, but I don't think that would help the integrity of this thread, which is already questionable at best. If this thread is to be a place to vent frustrations and hate on Ken, fine, but please don't expect all of Head-Fi to take it seriously or treat it with the typical consideration seen here.