[Blitzula]

Since there were so many complaints about posting on the "Action against Storm Digital" thread if you hadn't been wronged, I thought a new thread would be the place for the rest of us to comment without upsetting anyone.

Has anyone heard of Ken Law actually providing the DACs to end users? It looks like he's fufilling store orders and screwing over the small customer like the Head-Fi folk.

I hope someone's still putting pressure on him legally...it doesn't look like it.

I hate to see people get ripped off and taken advantage of...it's been months since his supposed change of heart and I still haven't heard anyone here getting satisfaction (outside of one posted refund).

Meanwhile, new threads are started (and there's arguably advertising or at a minumum buzz created in the Action thread) discussing the pros and cons of his DAC. It's just odd.

EDIT:

Here's a running list of whom has been taken care of, who hasn't, and how each situation was resolved. This isn't necessarily comprehensive...I've only added people upon their approval, and into the category they indicated. If you'd like to be added, please send me a PM with the following information: User name, category to put you in, order date (MM-YY), and resolution date (MM-YY, as applicable).


Resolved by member or unresolved

Unresolved (0): DAC or refund not received.
Resolved (1): Refund received from Paypal or credit card dispute: Daryn Alexander.

Resolved with Storm

Resolved (0): DAC received.
Resolved (0): Refund received from Storm.

 

[braillediver]

Why not let it be since you're not involved?


Mitch

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why not let it be since you're not involved? Mitch

Mainly because I think there's a lot of potential for someone to rip people off at Head-Fi, and I think a discussion of how to avoid it and what to do when it happens is of value.

Also, I think the whole dynamic where Ken-in my mind-is still able to get word of mouth discussion and interest drummed up for his product in both the action thread (see all the hi-res photos and at least one interested poster inquiring about price and considering a purchase despite all that had been written beforehand) and the DAC discussion thread is fascinating.

I think a clever person and/or people who don't see certain pitfalls can result in real manipulation in an online environment.

 

[fran]

Well to be fair to Blitzula heres how the storm threads stand:

1. You are not meant to post in the "action against storm digital" thread in in member lounge unless you paid the cash and didn't receive a DAC

2. The sonic impressions thread in sources forum is limited in a way to those who have heard the DAC (seems to me a very limited amount of people!!!)

So it seems that aside from this thread there ain't much place to talk about the whole thing!

I say talk away and comment as you want. If it upsets you, don't read this thread!

Fran

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fran /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well to be fair to Blitzula heres how the storm threads stand: 1. You are not meant to post in the "action against storm digital" thread in in member lounge unless you paid the cash and didn't receive a DAC 2. The sonic impressions thread in sources forum is limited in a way to those who have heard the DAC (seems to me a very limited amount of people!!!) So it seems that aside from this thread there ain't much place to talk about the whole thing! I say talk away and comment as you want. If it upsets you, don't read this thread! Fran

That was along the lines of my thinking.

I just wanted somewhere to post on the matter where people can't reasonably get upset-that isn't the impressions thread (no business practices discussion per OP request) or the Action thread (no business practices discussion unless you've been wronged per request).

 

[Daryn Alexander]

I'm involved, and happen to have a different opinion than "Oh isn't this great, he started talking to us again!" He's always talked. He's been talking. He's lied at every point and when that didn't work he fled completely. We're not talking about small lies like "it'll be finished next week", but also giving a false business address and stories.

Because my paypal was linked to a line of credit, I was able to get my 500 back. Ken still emailed me and said my DAC was on the way, though. Funny, eh? I think this was an error rather than upfront generosity. Perhaps if he still had my money, I would have some blind allegiance towards him that so many people have unforunately adopted.

But he doesn't. so I won't make excuses for him and turn a blind eye when a new Storm Digital DAC is posted on a website before any orders have been filled. Seriously, you've been waiting how long and then you see promo pictures of a DAC he has made since? How do you not personally fly to Hong Kong to kick his ass at that point?

It's annoying. Anyone else would have done this, any oher vendor, and they'd be rightfully off this site for good and all discussion of their false products would be ended. But because he keeps a lingering hope alive for a few people that still want to believe they haven't been taken (and that's what it is. Just because it didn't start out that way doesn't mean it isn't), discussion persists. I'll apologize when they receive their DACs. Needless to say, I'm not preparing my speech just yet.

I think if he pulls through for the people that still want to believe in him, that's great. But I think with all the problems Ken has caused, the lies he's told, and the money he's taken without showing any product, it is not only in Head-fi's best interest but also it's responsibility to ban Storm Digital and any discussion of the DAC. Let's say a new member ordered a Pandora from Storm Digital that he'll never see. Head-fi was aware of Storm Digital's reputation (or lack thereof). They allowed the discussion and promotion of his product. Meanwhile, the thread is full of "Ken said this, Ken said that, isn't that wonderful?". I support wholeheartedly consumer responsibility. I just think saying it's ONLY the consumer's responsibility is a cop-out and an excue for someone who's shown nothing but deceit at every turn. "Sorry About Your Wallet" maybe a cute little phrase around here, but it shouldn't endorse outright theft.

 

[n_maher]

Just a possible point of clarification, even those folks who paid Ken via a reimbursable source (line of credit, credit card, some banks, etc.) - Ken may still have your money. It's likely that whatever monetary institution decided to refund your money either did so through an insurance policy or other means and then tried to get it back by other means. So in the end some of you might end up with your money and the DAC, wouldn't that be a kick in the pants?

 

[braillediver]

"I hate to see people get ripped off and taken advantage of"

So why not let Ken finish what he's started?

If you look at what happened logically- Ken told everyone when the DAC should be ready and about 2 weeks before the date arrived people panicked and they started filing PayPal claims and legal action against Ken. This at a crucial time and they ruined any chance of him being able to complete the project.

This thread by people who are not involved will accomplish what? These people don’t know all the facts or the current state of affairs since they aren’t involved. Kind of like a bunch of gawkers at a car accident.

But heh if you can piss off enough people who have no direct interest in this and can offend Ken Lay then you might be able to permanently screw the people who have waited this long to get a DAC. If you drive Ken underground again or get people to pursue the legal option you might be able to permanently drive Ken out of business.


Please continue your previously scheduled useless conversation.

Mitch

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver /img/forum/go_quote.gif "I hate to see people get ripped off and taken advantage of" So why not let Ken finish what he's started?

Who's stopping him?

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you look at what happened logically- Ken told everyone when the DAC should be ready and about 2 weeks before the date arrived people panicked and they started filing PayPal claims and legal action against Ken. This at a crucial time and they ruined any chance of him being able to complete the project.

It sounds like you're blaming the customers. Logically, I see someone who took a lot of money, disappeared, kept no one in the loop about his whereabouts or the whereabouts of their money, and only started to talk about making things right after the police were contacted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver /img/forum/go_quote.gif But heh if you can piss off enough people who have no direct interest in this and can offend Ken Lay then you might be able to permanently screw the people who have waited this long to get a DAC. If you drive Ken underground again or get people to pursue the legal option you might be able to permanently drive Ken out of business...

Or perhaps legal pressure will force Ken to come up with the money or DACs. Or not-I don't know. The current approach isn't exactly yielding gangbuster results (one refund, no DACs, as far as I know), so I doubt if this thread will necessarily harm anything.

If Ken doesn't deliver, the blame solely lies in one place and one place only-with Ken.

 

[plainsong]

Since the OP made a thread to post _opinions_ to let people _not involve_ simply say what they think, what I think is - I hope that those involved get the dac. I want everything to work out and I want Storm Digital to be telling the truth.

But what I _think_ is, it's not the first set of sea monkies sold on an audio forum, and it won't be the last. I'd be surprised (pleasently of course) if this all turned out to be true and anyone got anything. He didn't even start up communication until after the criminal investigation started. That doesn't appear to be a coincidence.

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't appear to be the case yet. If someone has information that they can't discuss, then that information can't be verified and isn't valid, so no one will bother anyone just to hear rumors. None of it means anything until the customers have their dacs.

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who's stopping him?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryn Alexander /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I think with all the problems Ken has caused, the lies he's told, and the money he's taken without showing any product, it is not only in Head-fi's best interest but also it's responsibility to ban Storm Digital and any discussion of the DAC.

I think doing this certainly wouldn't help Ken finish what he started...

I did find it interesting to see the sudden change in mood towad Ken Law/Storm Digital after pictures/info of the Pandora were posted. I do agree that he's sort of getting some free advertising here, and the current state of the Action Against Storm Digital thread is more positive toward Ken that it should be (There is a disclaimer that points to that thread in the Pandora impressions thread, but I feel that isn't enough to sufficiently prevent people from ordering more DACs from Ken Law; yes, I personally believe that in the current situation people should be prevented from ordering from Ken Law, not simply warned by giving a link to a stickied thread in which people are currently very hopeful about receiving their product and seem rather excited).

I don't know, it just makes me feel bad to know that this guy, who still has not delivered his goods to those he scammed (based on what I know), is no longer getting bad press. It seems some people's attitudes have suddenly changed in that one thread with Ken Law's new communication and new DAC, but history never changes and I believe that that should never be forgotten.

003 - I may be one of those misinformed/not up to date people. Oh well, I know what I know, and that won't change unless information is released.

So, based on this possible misinformation, I still consider Ken Law a scammer and don't believe anybody should lighten up to him in any degree until they receive a refund from Ken Law or receive their DAC (regardless of what pictures and emails he sends). I'm not saying he won't deliver the DACs, and I'm not saying he will deliver the DACs; I'm just reminding everyone that he hasn't delivered the DACs. I believe it's been almost a year, hasn't it? (please correct me if I'm wrong).

(By "the" DACs, I'm referring to those DACs purchased by those he scammed; I realize that some D02s have already been received in the past)

I am not directly involved in this whole Storm Digital mess (Thank goodness; I was this close to ordering one due to all the hype, but luckily I went with the cheaper Zhaolu D2.0C instead). So, my opinions may not be valid and I may not be allowed to discuss this situation on this discussion forum.

With all of that said, I sincerely hope that those involved reach some sort of resolution with Ken Law, either through a refund or a DAC.

 

[kramer5150]

x2 on Azure's post above.

I dont see anything wrong with this thread, so long as:

1- the mods keep a close watch over it and don't let it turn into a (yet another) lynch-mob. There are enough threads for that already.

2- It does not interfere with the resolution.

No, I am not directly involved, so flame me as you feel the need. However I am always looking for a DAC upgrade so, threads like this help to increase knowledge, and consumer awareness. As far as I know, Ken is in the process of delivering on his end, so if this thread impedes with his progress in any way, it should be deleted.

So... Good luck to those involved, hope it all works out.

 

[Daryn Alexander]

I'm just going to add this...

to anyone saying that banning Storm Digital from Head-fi would prevent Ken from finishing his business...how? He has everyone's contact information that he needs to. If anything, I would say that banning Ken and Storm Digital topics would help him concentrate on the orders he took a year ago and not on the ones he is taking now hrough Head-fi. If you're suggesting he relies on Head-fi, then that's what MoT sponsor forums are for. If he wanted to use Head-fi as a business tool, perhap he could've pursued that route or at least bothered to be a legitimate businessman.

Ken said he was sorry, they were on the way, he was robbed, threatened, someone got sick, etc. It actually got SO FAR that Eddie Wu went to the business address he gave out in Hong Kong and no one had ever heard of him.

See, no one else is going ot say this, but this happened last time. Some people were afraid to say anything the first time because they thought Ken would not reply to them at all (which he ended up doing anyway). I've deleted PM's saying such. No different this time.

If you scam 5 people in the FS Forum, you're banned. But if you scam 50...? I've decided not to personally pursue any more dealings with Mr. Law. I have my money back, though I jumped through hoops to get it. I imagine if everyone else were as fortunate, they'd be in the same boat. I never imagined that Storm Digital would be hyped again the way it is now. That just blows my mind. That's insane. That's stupid. Because if and when any authorities come to him, he'll simply say, "They all know about the delays and we have sinced reached a resolution." Doesn't anyone see that? Then the second time around, not even the authorities will care. Only this time, there will be more people with empty pockets. it's rather clever, I'll give him that.

Everyone on Head-fi has a right to be concerned, even angry. It's a slap in the face to everyone on here. Openly promoting theft.

 

[003]

Ken should not be banned ... people have a right to be upset, yes. I'm not getting into what happened last time, we all know. However, Ken's posts are not advertising... he was replying to people that addressed him.

All I have to say (and I know this will sound bad to most of you in this thread who are not in the know), give it time. I have my reasons, trust me.

I would not be sitting here advocating a scammer if he really was one.

 

[plainsong]

Any picture of any new thing being worked on, where people have paid or are expected to pay money for it - is advertizing. Unless openly shilling for sales or something, of course it would be forum rules that you can at least post pictures as long as you don't say "buy me!!"

But it's not about forum rules, it's about what we all know to be true, and that is, that heck yeah it's advertizing, and it's working.

"I have my reasons, trust me." That means squat nothing to the people waiting for what they ordered. The only thing that will mean anything is the DAC in working order delivered as promised.

I unknowingly advocated a scammer, so be careful who you back. If it's not family, don't get that close.

Of course he should be banned, he should be banned from posting on any forum ever, but he won't be because of the off chance that maybe perhaps someone will need to get in touch with him through the boards..and a slimmer chance he may be telling the truth. It's a slim to none chance by now for those already involved, but head-fi can't always take care of you.