[sokolov91]

Quote:

I for one think that my Lambda(404) sounds dam good out of my Stax SRM-006TII amp....I would even call it bliss. 

I was never saying they were bad by any means!
 
When bliss is achieved you have won because it doesn't matter what the product is that produces it, it is the fact you have this total satisfaction which is very rare.
 
Currently I am blissed with my LCD-2 and hope to upgrade my source, but as my adventures continue to teach me, you don't know until you hear (preferably with your own gear and music). So I will eventually (hopefully) have an electrostatic set up at home.
 
 
@ everyone:
 
 
What kind of music do you guys listen to primarily on your Stax? It would seem most go for jazz or classical (maybe this is more related to the age and income of the clients that the stats inherant abilities?).
 
I fear that electrostatics would not have the bass extension I desire. Bloat I do not desire, but extension is a necessity and judging my FR plots, many lambdas and dynamics are very rolled off in the low end. FR plots do not tell all, but they do tell than most people like to admit.
 
All things equal,(so a good midrange, good highs, good compfort) I like headphones that do not roll off in the bass.
 
Take my Sony SA5K - I love the thing to death and was convinced at one point is has the best bass (also the best headphone, which I no longer but it is damned good!). It does have very nice, taught/tight bass, but it is very light and not realistic. I used to view this, and believe a lot of people do view this as "quicker" bass. Bass is slow by nature and the low low ruble should be there to compliment the mid bass bump all headphones have. If it only has midbass, this skews the sound of many instruments, even voice. This type of bass "taught" bass suits many genres, and perhaps headphone listening in general, but is hardly neutral.
 
It would seem people swing to one extreme rather than prefer the middle. That is, people enjoy too much bass, or too little, and a lot like to think that too little is a "better, tighter, more accurate etc etc" bass when in fact it is not if it rolls off. There is a fallacy to that logic, just as there is with too much bass.
 
Does bass response change a lot depending on the amp used, or is a limitation of the amount of air the diaphragm can move?
 
Also, if amps were a non issue, is there an objective ultimate technology? Like are stats theoretically the best transducers because of hypothetical speeds? (many seem to believe this)
 
 
Lastly, is there a "house sound" for electro stats? Say I got a 202 very basic package, would that be enough to let me know if it worth pursuing or not?
 
Thanks for everything guys.

 

[MuppetFace]

I am by no means a stat expert, at least compared to some of the other members here, but I will try to answer a few questions you raised.
 
While I haven't heard the SR-202 for myself yet, it seems to be regarded as comparable to the SR-303 and 404 but with a slightly different sound signature that some people actually prefer to the SR-404. I'm sure trying the SR-202 would give you a close enough sense as to what stats are all about.
 
Like n3rdling mentioned, you can use a transformer to power your Lambdas with a speaker amp. Talking to some people who prefer this method, it can apparently result in more commanding sound, dynamics, and bass impact. The trade-off seems to be at the expense of detail and transparency which you would get from a direct drive amp.

 

[mobbaddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokolov91 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
What kind of music do you guys listen to primarily on your Stax? It would seem most go for jazz or classical (maybe this is more related to the age and income of the clients that the stats inherant abilities?).

I'm probably a bit of an exception here but my main genre is hip-hop.
Lambdas do sound a bit light to me, they can go low but the deep bass lacks body. I find it frustrating with many genres, not only hip-hop. I wouldn't trust the frequency graphs though as they may be flawed, especially the one on the LCD2 website (check this study for more info). I enjoy a lot the mid/treble of my LNS but it's not entirely flat to my ears and it can sound bright sometimes. It has this fast and airy sound that seems typical with stats though.
The SR-003 lack deep bass as well but they're very well balanced after changing the tips (very similar to the O2 for 10% of the price). They can be a great allrounder i think. As for the O2 well it sounds great with everything i must say. I get plenty of deep bass (almost no roll off at 40 hz).

 

[spritzer]

I only listen to rock or metal so any claims that ESP's can't handle this stuff are just BS.  So are the claims that Stax need a huge, expensive amp to show what they truly can do.  What they need is a well designed amplifier, with low distortion, high slew rate and low output impedance.  Take the amp I'm listening to now for instance on the my SR-007.  It's a modified SRM-Xs (an early 90's version of the current SRM-252) which draws a grand total of 4W and works of a 12V wall wart.  Now it doesn't have the power of something like the KGSS which sits next to it but it clearly shows what the SR-007 really can do.  Now this amp design is better than 99% of all dynamic amps sold (fully dc-coupled, fully discrete and differential) and they can be picked up used for next to nothing. Now more power is needed to unlock what these beasts truly can do but during a mini-meet this week an amp like this was enough to show off the wast difference between a HE60 and a SR-007 faithfully. 

 

[ztsen]

Quote:

 
As for the description of the Lambdas, I can't say I've heard a Lambda that sounded like that.  I agree they are bright, but so is almost every headphone to my ears.  The bass on an electrostat is one of the best things about them to me...I think people who say Lambdas have no bass either haven't heard them or are used to the God-awful monotone bass bloat exhibited by cans such as Denons.  If they had wonky mids, no bass, and were bright then who would like them?  I'm not sure I've even read a negative overall impression on a Stax headphone before, which says more than anything.
 
I do agree that the LCD2 is awesome for the price though.  As for the SR507, I have high hopes for this headphone.  I didn't buy into the 404LE hype train, but this headphone looks like it has significant (or at least more substantial) upgrades.

x2. I second that. 

 

[sokolov91]

Ok so for those who want to avoid reading some rambling I am posting some impressions that are not of the 507, so you can stop here.
 
 
 
Well I went to the local hi-fi store today and auditioned the Stax 404 + SR 006 amp (tube one) with a CEC balanced source. Best teacher is experience, so it is about time I stopped talking in logic (to me anyways lol) and started hearing. 
 
The total time was about an hour, and I tried the source in both balanced and single ended. The two CD's I brought were Deadmau5's "For lack of a better name" and The REM greatest hits CD.
 
I was very impressed with the overall sound quality. Effortless was a word that came to mind, and continually comes up with stats, and I now understand that perception. It is very enjoyable.
 
Definitely a very clear headphone combo. Imaging was very tight and precise, and the soundstage was pleasantly deep without being overly big. There was certainly a great deal to like .
 
 
However there was two big drawbacks for me:
 
One was the bass roll off, which in the limited impression anyways, was pretty severed. It is indeed a preference, but even with that giant, sexy amp, there was not enough force to get that low level detail out. Particularly, in the Deadmau5 tracks, I noticed entire basslines that seemingly did not exist, were Stax my only headphone, I would not be aware of the significance these frequencies add to the songs feel and progression. They were there, to a degree, but they were so quiet/faint and unevenly reproduced that they might as well not have been there. So, clearly this headphone is not a jack of all trades.
 
The second one was linearity, which is tied to the first qualm. The sound (to me) was more coherent at low volumes, as the bass did not seem to scale as the volume went up and the highs really overwhelmed the scene. That being said, the highs were always crystal clear and very detailed. They were not intrusive per se, but they definitely stuck out and got a lot of attention.
 
However, there are too many variables to take into account for this short session and I recognize it is very limited. A few would be my prior expectations, my tastes, the mood I was in, and the fact the headphone could be considered bright. Detailed is always quick to be associated with bright headphones. Other factors such as environmental triggers, sources, amps, anything -you name it was all out of the norm for me.
 
So I will definitely return to audition them some more, and to try the other STAX. Ideally I would like to match the volumes and compare side by side to my LCD-2... I am trying to work something out with the owner (who is trying to sell me the very combo I listened to hahaha).
 
Right now, I find the combo I listened to, to be very similar sounding to my Sony SA5000, albeit more "precise" ,or faster at any rate.
 
 
Sooooooo, to come back to the actual topic of this thread:
 
If the 507 can retain this speed and purity in the mids and highs, with having more bass extension I think it would definitely be a winner (to me anyways). As of right now I am very excited to read impressions of this headphone, and to eventually hear them myself.
 
 
One big caveat is my budget. I did like the set enough to have hypothetically bought it on the spot had I the funds. So it is indeed very good. Returning to my original reasoning, I do not think that particular set up was very cost effective at all. An SA5K + decent amp and source would be close (especially in sound signature), and LCD-2 with decent amp and source (to me) is better overall and very cost effective.
 
Another caveat is the amps and sources were totally different. The source at the store was significantly better (in terms of build quality and part selection anyways) than my current source at home, so that could have attributed a lot to the detail level, or not.
 
I will have to try some of the lesser stax and amps out to get more of a feel for the value ratio though.
 

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Ok so for those who want to avoid reading some rambling I am posting some impressions that are not of the 507, so you can stop here.
 
 
 
Well I went to the local hi-fi store today and auditioned the Stax 404 + SR 006 amp (tube one) with a CEC balanced source. Best teacher is experience, so it is about time I stopped talking in logic (to me anyways lol) and started hearing. 
 
The total time was about an hour, and I tried the source in both balanced and single ended. The two CD's I brought were Deadmau5's "For lack of a better name" and The REM greatest hits CD.
 
I was very impressed with the overall sound quality. Effortless was a word that came to mind, and continually comes up with stats, and I now understand that perception. It is very enjoyable.
 
Definitely a very clear headphone combo. Imaging was very tight and precise, and the soundstage was pleasantly deep without being overly big. There was certainly a great deal to like .
 
 
However there was two big drawbacks for me:
 
One was the bass roll off, which in the limited impression anyways, was pretty severed. It is indeed a preference, but even with that giant, sexy amp, there was not enough force to get that low level detail out. Particularly, in the Deadmau5 tracks, I noticed entire basslines that seemingly did not exist, were Stax my only headphone, I would not be aware of the significance these frequencies add to the songs feel and progression. They were there, to a degree, but they were so quiet/faint and unevenly reproduced that they might as well not have been there. So, clearly this headphone is not a jack of all trades.
 
The second one was linearity, which is tied to the first qualm. The sound (to me) was more coherent at low volumes, as the bass did not seem to scale as the volume went up and the highs really overwhelmed the scene. That being said, the highs were always crystal clear and very detailed. They were not intrusive per se, but they definitely stuck out and got a lot of attention.
 
However, there are too many variables to take into account for this short session and I recognize it is very limited. A few would be my prior expectations, my tastes, the mood I was in, and the fact the headphone could be considered bright. Detailed is always quick to be associated with bright headphones. Other factors such as environmental triggers, sources, amps, anything -you name it was all out of the norm for me.
 
So I will definitely return to audition them some more, and to try the other STAX. Ideally I would like to match the volumes and compare side by side to my LCD-2... I am trying to work something out with the owner (who is trying to sell me the very combo I listened to hahaha).
 
Right now, I find the combo I listened to, to be very similar sounding to my Sony SA5000, albeit more "precise" ,or faster at any rate.
 
 
Sooooooo, to come back to the actual topic of this thread:
 
If the 507 can retain this speed and purity in the mids and highs, with having more bass extension I think it would definitely be a winner (to me anyways). As of right now I am very excited to read impressions of this headphone, and to eventually hear them myself.
 
 
One big caveat is my budget. I did like the set enough to have hypothetically bought it on the spot had I the funds. So it is indeed very good. Returning to my original reasoning, I do not think that particular set up was very cost effective at all. An SA5K + decent amp and source would be close (especially in sound signature), and LCD-2 with decent amp and source (to me) is better overall and very cost effective.
 
Another caveat is the amps and sources were totally different. The source at the store was significantly better (in terms of build quality and part selection anyways) than my current source at home, so that could have attributed a lot to the detail level, or not.
 
I will have to try some of the lesser stax and amps out to get more of a feel for the value ratio though.
 

 
A major problem with Stax is the amp voltage.  The 006 is probably ok for classical music but it gives only 300 volts.  Even the old transistor SRM1Mk2 drives 370, while the the transistor 717 does 450 as do some of the newer amps.  This could have big bearing on dynamics and bass.  I personally the find the 404 somewhat bassy with my 717.  I also prefer my Lambdas with the back foam removed but the shop would probably disaprove.

 

[tigermilk]

Flew into Japan today and my hotel is half a block from the Yodobashi in Akihabara.  Guess what they have in stock?  You guess it, 507s.  And they had them on display as well at their listening stations.  I was swapping between the 202s, 404s, 007s, and the new 507s.  The 202s were driven from a 252A amp, the 404s from a SRM-600, and the others from a 006t or 007t as I recall.  Source was a Marantz SACD player.  At home I've got a 252 with SR-003s and a 006t with 404s.  I listened to some classical and some Sonny Rollins.  Bottom line?  Didn't really hear enough difference, so that money that was burning a hole in my pocket is safely still in my pocket.  I didn't think I'd come back with the 507s due to the cost/exchange rate, but once I heard them it sealed the deal.  I can wait.  The 507s, to me, didn't sound considerably better to my ears than the 404s.  Different?  A little bit.  But different isn't necessarily better or worse.  I will say that the construction looks fantastic.  They feel a lot sturdier than my 404s and look much better too.  I'm sure that those that are getting them will enjoy them, but for me, I'm content with what I have.

 

[MuppetFace]

 
Quote:

Flew into Japan today and my hotel is half a block from the Yodobashi in Akihabara.  Guess what they have in stock?  You guess it, 507s.  And they had them on display as well at their listening stations.  I was swapping between the 202s, 404s, 007s, and the new 507s.  The 202s were driven from a 252A amp, the 404s from a SRM-600, and the others from a 006t or 007t as I recall.  Source was a Marantz SACD player.  At home I've got a 252 with SR-003s and a 006t with 404s.  I listened to some classical and some Sonny Rollins.  Bottom line?  Didn't really hear enough difference, so that money that was burning a hole in my pocket is safely still in my pocket.  I didn't think I'd come back with the 507s due to the cost/exchange rate, but once I heard them it sealed the deal.  I can wait.  The 507s, to me, didn't sound considerably better to my ears than the 404s.  Different?  A little bit.  But different isn't necessarily better or worse.  I will say that the construction looks fantastic.  They feel a lot sturdier than my 404s and look much better too.  I'm sure that those that are getting them will enjoy them, but for me, I'm content with what I have.

Thanks for the impressions. Have you heard the 404LE? I'm curious as to how different the 507 sounds from those.

 

[tigermilk]

Quote:

 

Thanks for the impressions. Have you heard the 404LE? I'm curious as to how different the 507 sounds from those.

Never heard the LEs.

 

[Cya|\|]

Quote:

Flew into Japan today and my hotel is half a block from the Yodobashi in Akihabara.  Guess what they have in stock?  You guess it, 507s.  And they had them on display as well at their listening stations.  I was swapping between the 202s, 404s, 007s, and the new 507s.  The 202s were driven from a 252A amp, the 404s from a SRM-600, and the others from a 006t or 007t as I recall.  Source was a Marantz SACD player.  At home I've got a 252 with SR-003s and a 006t with 404s.  I listened to some classical and some Sonny Rollins.  Bottom line?  Didn't really hear enough difference, so that money that was burning a hole in my pocket is safely still in my pocket.  I didn't think I'd come back with the 507s due to the cost/exchange rate, but once I heard them it sealed the deal.  I can wait.  The 507s, to me, didn't sound considerably better to my ears than the 404s.  Different?  A little bit.  But different isn't necessarily better or worse.  I will say that the construction looks fantastic.  They feel a lot sturdier than my 404s and look much better too.  I'm sure that those that are getting them will enjoy them, but for me, I'm content with what I have.

Thx for opinion, now i can rest easily

 

[MuppetFace]

 
Quote:

Thx for opinion, now i can rest easily

And what if he's wrong? Eh? 

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

 

And what if he's wrong? Eh? 

well he can't really be wrong, since it is his opinion - but his opinion might not represent what Cyan would like in a headphone .
 
To be fair, I would rather someone be underwhelmed than going absolutely insane over how different sounding they are, only to have FR plots be the same, and people who bought them due to hype say otherwise. 
 
Only time will tell what the consensus is.

 

[Cya|\|]

Quote:

 

And what if he's wrong? Eh? 

Surely he may

, but in my experience, i tend to believe more to the people who say that the real sound improvement is small, than to those who say the differences are huge.
The reason i was still looking at staxes, is that i really like airy trebles, and staxes do have that. Lcd-2 have less of that. But maybe i'll can correct that with a little equalization

.
I didn't mean to flame, it's just that i had to make a fast choice, and these staxes popped out of nowere for me.

 

[tigermilk]

 
Quote:

well he can't really be wrong, since it is his opinion - but his opinion might not represent what Cyan would like in a headphone .
 
To be fair, I would rather someone be underwhelmed than going absolutely insane over how different sounding they are, only to have FR plots be the same, and people who bought them due to hype say otherwise. 
 
Only time will tell what the consensus is.

This stuff is all subjective anyway.  Just like the cable debate.  Psychoacoustics and the dent these things make on the wallet go a long way towards making things sound spectacular.  When I first heard Stax last fall in Tokyo, I couldn't tell you whether the 202/252 or 404/006t sounded "better".  Only that they sounded different.