[JimL11]

I just realized that I made a mistake in my description above about the amplifier. I went through my emails again and it actually said "Stax sr-009 headphones and an sr-007 energizer." But I bet (based on what you said above) that this one did not have enough power either to drive them properly.

It is such a shame though you need to spend like $5000 dollars on a more powerful amp just because you like to listen on higher volume for shorter periods of time

It is almost certainly the SRM-007 amp that is at fault. If you Google "SRM-007 Innerfidelity review" you will see that Tyll Hertsens found the same problem as you. The reason is the use of plate resistors in the Stax tube output amps. Just substituting a good constant current load for the plate resistors will significantly improve the problem - that circuit modification will more than double the effective power of the amplifier. If you are handy at DIY this will cost less than $50 in parts (although it will also void the warranty). In fact, a modified SRM-T1 will closely approach the output capability of the Stax solid state output amps, which use constant current load outputs. Will it equal a $5000 third party amp? No, but it will get you a significant part of the way there for a much lower cost. A modded amp will get you within 2 dB of the max output of a BHSE.

 

[powertoold]

If you want more "volume" from your Stax amp, use XLR output from a balanced DAC.

 

[greggf]

Or, you could listen at sane and safe volume levels on a Stax amp built by a real company with a real warranty and with safer power levels.

 

[buzzlulu]

Or, you could listen at sane and safe volume levels on a Stax amp built by a real company with a real warranty and with safer power levels.

“Third party” KG amps built by “not real companies - Mjolinir & Headamp” - are much more than simply “sane and safe volume levels”. They even come with real warranties!

 

[sinkr]

“Third party” KG amps built by “not real companies - Mjolinir & Headamp” - are much more than simply “sane and safe volume levels”. They even come with real warranties!

I'll 2nd this. I'm happier'n a pig in crap with my Mjolnir Carbon CC!

 

[andre dufour]

If you want more "volume" from your Stax amp, use XLR output from a balanced DAC.

Agreed 100%. I have a Woo WES (2nd gen) and with no power upgrades and it's insanely loud. At halfway, the headphones are load enough to hear from outside the room. I don't put them much higher than that

 

[andre dufour]

Hi, how loud is your preferred listening level?
Imo electrostatic sytems are not made for very loud hearing and full range planar loudspeakers do have a problem with heavy bass and extreme dynamics at high hearing level.
For me, one of the advantages of the 009/009s is the level of information you get even at lower power. That is for my STAX and my MartinLogan Summit x loudspeakers too.
The MartinLogan is a hybrid, it has a active Bass unit, so the dynamic and bass problem is not that dramatic.

Next is the Amp. I used SRM 006tII, still have it but my Blue Hawaii TubeAmp or my KGSS has way more power and those are the amplification i really use every day.

The smaller, original STAX amp´s tend to produce some distortion because of missing power resource. You could hear that also on lower loudness levels.
This is what i experienced wit the Stax headphones.

Karl

Hi Karl,

Did you experience this with the SR009S too? I am expecting a pair tomorrow. I'll have both the 009 and 009S connected to a 2nd gen woo WES and will see if there's a difference in 'loudness'.

Andre

 

[andre dufour]

Thank you for your contribution guys.

I just realized that I made a mistake in my description above about the amplifier. I went through my emails again and it actually said "Stax sr-009 headphones and an sr-007 energizer." But I bet (based on what you said above) that this one did not have enough power either to drive them properly.

It is such a shame though you need to spend like $5000 dollars on a more powerful amp just because you like to listen on higher volume for shorter periods of time

5000$ in the HiFi realm is very very low. There are a lot of high net worth folks who can spend a few 100K on a setup and not even be all that in to music I actually like headphones for the value and 'easy-to-use' setup. Remember, speakers need to be at angles and you need a lot of space (and hopefully neighbors that are far away in order to get the best sound. 5K speakers vs 5K headphones are not that fair for the speakers.

If 5K is a lot, then Sennheiser 6xx/8xx (as low as 350$) with a Schiit amp (350$) will sound great too.

Andre

 

[karlgerman]

Hi Andre,
Some may say that i´m wrong so i can only speak for my hearing experience. To my ears, even i really like the sounding of Elektrostatic speakers, there will be some distortion at unhealthy high music loudness. I use a BHSE and a KGSS next to the original STAX AMP, so the amplification and source should not be the problem.
The 009S is a different voicing STAX 009 to me.
The S version sound not that crisp on high frequencies and may be more advisable for longer hearing sessions.

Karl

 

[Dcman]

Thank you for your contribution.

Undoubtedly the money factor can differ from a person to person. As you said some people might spend couple of hundred thousands dollars for speakers just as they were doing groceries. Whereas the vast majority of people would surely consider this amount insanely high. Therefore I came to believe that the better idea can be offered by looking at the Sennheiser Orpheus's price. £50000 - price for amplification, DAC and obviously the headphone (the most expensive electrostats in the world)
So we are getting pretty much ~£16000 per piece. And speaking only for the headphones realm even the £5000 energiser would be a lot based on that comparison.

I also can confirm that my Audeze Deckard with the Audeze LCD-2 do not provide any audible distortion even on the maximum level of power.

Let me know what do you think.

 

[andre dufour]

Thank you for your contribution.

Undoubtedly the money factor can differ from a person to person. As you said some people might spend couple of hundred thousands dollars for speakers just as they were doing groceries. Whereas the vast majority of people would surely consider this amount insanely high. Therefore I came to believe that the better idea can be offered by looking at the Sennheiser Orpheus's price. £50000 - price for amplification, DAC and obviously the headphone (the most expensive electrostats in the world)
So we are getting pretty much ~£16000 per piece. And speaking only for the headphones realm even the £5000 energiser would be a lot based on that comparison.

I also can confirm that my Audeze Deckard with the Audeze LCD-2 do not provide any audible distortion even on the maximum level of power.

Let me know what do you think.

I agree that the Orpheus' price, which includes everything except for a source, and should be something that actually retains its value somewhat well (probably comparable to fine jewelry) for at least for 10+ years, is a decent deal. For example, your typical middle class family often buys two new cars every 6 years which often results in 50-60K in deprecation. Buying two used cars + Orpheus every 6 years seems like a better deal for me

I think there's two types of 'distortion'. I love listening to music but am not technical when it comes sound.

1st type - How loud can you listen to something without it hurting or sounding bad.
2nd type - The technical distortion; STAX SR009/S probably each have next to none.

 

[andre dufour]

Hi Andre,
Some may say that i´m wrong so i can only speak for my hearing experience. To my ears, even i really like the sounding of Elektrostatic speakers, there will be some distortion at unhealthy high music loudness. I use a BHSE and a KGSS next to the original STAX AMP, so the amplification and source should not be the problem.
The 009S is a different voicing STAX 009 to me.
The S version sound not that crisp on high frequencies and may be more advisable for longer hearing sessions.

Karl

Hi Karl,

I just got the 009S an hour ago. I agree with you that compared to the regular 009, they are not as bright but the music is still completely awesome. The 009S are effortless; the music just pours out and the headphones do not seem to struggle at all regardless of the track. 009S is certainly an upgrade to the 009.

...please keep in mind that I average about 6 hours a day with the 009 and know them well.

Initial Impression of 009S vs 009....on the following tracks....
Jeff Buckley - Forget Her
Led Zeppelin - Stairway to Heaven (Master quality)
Radiohead - High and Dry
Neil Young - Cortez the killer (live)
Edgar Meyer & Yo-Yo Ma - Duet for Cello and Bass,
Akira sound track - Tetsuo (Master quality)
2Pac & Dr. Dre - California Love
Hans Zimmer - The Might of Rome (Gladiator)
Brightman & Bocelli - Time to Say Goodbye
A Boogie Wit Da Hoddie - Beast Mode
Lennon - Oh my love (Master quality)
Santana - Europa

1 - Music --> I can hear the music a lot more (guitars really shine, pianos come alive more, etc) and there's more detail to it. there's less focus on on the voice. It feels right.

2 - Loudness --> You can play them louder and they still sound GREAT. I raised the volume 2-5 'clicks' higher with the 009S.

3 - Everything fits --> more to point #1, all the sounds really blend well with each other. they all seem to be present where, with the 009, the mid-range and higher sounds seem to dominate more.

4 - Better Bass --> They have more detail and more bass.

5 - More Details --> More detail like in a way that the 009 sounds more detailed than the HD800 (I also have HD800 and HD800S).

 

[Dcman]

I agree that the Orpheus' price, which includes everything except for a source, and should be something that actually retains its value somewhat well (probably comparable to fine jewelry) for at least for 10+ years, is a decent deal. For example, your typical middle class family often buys two new cars every 6 years which often results in 50-60K in deprecation. Buying two used cars + Orpheus every 6 years seems like a better deal for me

I think there's two types of 'distortion'. I love listening to music but am not technical when it comes sound.

1st type - How loud can you listen to something without it hurting or sounding bad.
2nd type - The technical distortion; STAX SR009/S probably each have next to none.

Again, thank you for your input.

You are absolutely correct - there is more than just one type of distortion. I am not an expert myself but I found the following article particularly useful:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...d-total-harmonic-distortion-plus-noise-part-1

Furthermore, regarding the "technical distortion" of Stax 009, I added some charts bellow with some different attributes (also for LCD-2 so it can be compared to each other). To my understanding, the THD results of the bass spectrum on Audeze are superior to Stax.

LCD-2:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2sn53211704circa2012.pdf

009:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SNSZ92251KGSS.pdf

Cheers

 

[jrfmd]

I understand what you mean.

Speakers and headphones are apple and orange not in the same league.

If I want deep bass, dynamics and deeper soundstage, I would go to my speaker system.

But when I want intimate sound without disturbing sleeping wife, then I may go to Stax 009S.

For my purpose, I think 009S and Carbon is the end game.

But when I want intimate sound without disturbing sleeping wife....

if you sleep in the same bed as your wife you might find that the 009s leaks too much sound for your wife to sleep
bass dynamics and big stage are usually an amp problem -- i find the blue hawaii gives great dynamics and sound stage and very good bass

 

[thomaskong78]

My Stax system is not set up in the bedroom but in the listening room on the third floor.

Thus I do not worry about leakage.

If you use headphone in the bedroom, you had better choose closed one.