[Hi-Fi-Apricity]

These impressions are confusing me. Some are saying more bass, others are saying the same amount of bass but quicker. Some say less mid-range some say just more lower mids. I really wonder what the real deal is

 

[purk]

These impressions are confusing me. Some are saying more bass, others are saying the same amount of bass but quicker. Some say less mid-range some say just more lower mids. I really wonder what the real deal is

First we all hear a little differently. Second, we have different system. Third, the perceived difference are not night and day and closer than you think. Forth, we have our bias. Fifth, many SR009 owners probably refused to admit that the SR009S are superior to the 009 so they don't have to spend nearly $5k for a new headphones. Joking aside, go out and listen to them yourself. Bring your amp if you can and form your opinion.

 

[forestitalia]

First we all hear a little differently. Second, we have different system. Third, the perceived difference are not night and day and closer than you think. Forth, we have our bias. Fifth, many SR009 owners probably refused to admit that the SR009S are superior to the 009 so they don't have to spend nearly $5k for a new headphones. Joking aside, go out and listen to them yourself. Bring your amp if you can and form your opinion.

I would rather think is the opposite: after you spent lot more for an update you can't admit it sounds same or worst than the old 009.
It happens all the time with the several HE1000 (v1-v2-se-whatever), on blind test everyone keep confusing the versions (v1-v2), there is no real 'better'

 

[tumpux]

... aaand as usual, the ones who sweat about those differences are the ones who are not in position to get it.

 

[astrostar59]

Just cut to the chase if you want real bass, and go Planars...

 

[unison845]

Just cut to the chase if you want real bass, and go Planars...

The midrange is where 80%of the music is, where Planars can't compete with STAX ESL .

 

[Whitigir]

The midrange is where 80%of the music is, where Planars can't compete with STAX ESL .

Same goes for Silky and detailed smooth high . But when someone are not driving Stax properly, there is no point knowing what we are talking about

 

[Rhamnetin]

Just cut to the chase if you want real bass, and go Planars...

I find my SR-009 system's bass performance easily outclasses all planars I have ever listened to. We shall soon see how the Abyss Phi CC and HiFiMan Susvara compete, using a Chord Hugo TT 2. Though it's clear to me the Susvara doesn't stand a chance considering how the HE1000 sounds.

 

[astrostar59]

Same goes for Silky and detailed smooth high . But when someone are not driving Stax properly, there is no point knowing what we are talking about

I think I drove my 009s pretty well, as I had the KGSShv Carbon amp and a 30K Audio Note R-2R tube DAC. I would say the mids and bass are clearly better on the LCD4s and Abyss. The treble in Planars is different to the 009, the detail is all there, it is more planted in the image as a whole. My 009s thrust it forward and the low level 'plankton' was exaggerated. Bit like hearing someone crinkling a crisp bag at a rock concert. It didn't sound quite natural to my ears. Also female vocals never convinced me....

This is pretty much down to personal choice and how we perceive realism in music. I would suggest the 009 is a detailed headphone kind of sound, and Planars sound more like big speaker systems. Pick your poison.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

Curious to compare 009s to my love of the moment, HE-60

Ali

 

[Thaudiophile]

I think I drove my 009s pretty well, as I had the KGSShv Carbon amp and a 30K Audio Note R-2R tube DAC. I would say the mids and bass are clearly better on the LCD4s and Abyss. The treble in Planars is different to the 009, the detail is all there, it is more planted in the image as a whole. My 009s thrust it forward and the low level 'plankton' was exaggerated. Bit like hearing someone crinkling a crisp bag at a rock concert. It didn't sound quite natural to my ears. Also female vocals never convinced me....

This is pretty much down to personal choice and how we perceive realism in music. I would suggest the 009 is a detailed headphone kind of sound, and Planars sound more like big speaker systems. Pick your poison.

Planars/Dynamics objectively have more distortion/Grain in the mids/highs/bass and the treble is more uneven,spiky and less smooth on both planars/dynamics and they have less speed as well if compared to electrostats, I also don't know what is "exaggerated plankton". You can like planars more but looking at it objectively, there is literally no reason to believe that electrostats are more "unnatural" sounding compared to planars/dynamics, in fact, theoretically electrostats should be more natural sounding headphones. Also, even Hd 800 completely dominates the abyss in measurements/technicalities while costing 5x less let alone electrostats like l700/007/009/009S. Planars like Susvara/abyss/LCD 4 are a very bad value in comparison to electrostats or hd 800, all of them suffer from quality control issues, build issues,have terrible design and not so great sound quality technically. At least Utopia doesn't require much in amplification and is built well.

 

[astrostar59]

Planars/Dynamics objectively have more distortion/Grain in the mids/highs/bass and the treble is more uneven,spiky and less smooth on both planars/dynamics and they have less speed as well if compared to electrostats, I also don't know what is "exaggerated plankton". You can like planars more but looking at it objectively, there is literally no reason to believe that electrostats are more "unnatural" sounding compared to planars/dynamics, in fact, theoretically electrostats should be more natural sounding headphones. Also, even Hd 800 completely dominates the abyss in measurements/technicalities while costing 5x less let alone electrostats like l700/007/009/009S. Planars like Susvara/abyss/LCD 4 are a very bad value in comparison to electrostats or hd 800, all of them suffer from quality control issues, build issues,have terrible design and not so great sound quality technically. At least Utopia doesn't require much in amplification and is built well.

Oh my, but you are welcome to your opinion, but I will say I disagree strongly. Why you bring up the HD800, not sure. It has a terrible treble pitch and is very light / thin sounding, or tipped up I would say.

Show me the distortion is more in the Abyss or LCD4 v the 009 for the same output. I would like to compare those please. Besides measurements, I use my ears, and I ref back to live sound. The exaggerated low level detail thrust forward in the 009 is unnatural to my ears, but as I said, others will disagree. I asks myself some hard questions before I sold my 009s and Carbon, and the amount of use they were getting, enjoyment factor. I also realised I was avoiding certain types opt recordings. This is something I no longer have an issue with.

I had a cluster of hard test recordings for my 009 and Carbon v the LCD4s, such as Evanescence Fallen, Cranberries Zombie. The LCD4 won that contest easily. It is simply more forgiving and without pitch issues. I never listened to those recording on the 009s without diving for the volume pot.

I don't here the grain and grit in the LCD4. It has silky smooth mids, liquid treble, no pitching, no emphasis. The bass is, well I don't need to talk about that, it is unsurpassed, maybe by the Abyss Phi, but only just. In fact the LCD4 is so smooth I can listen for hours, loud and without any fatigue at all. It is very natural sounding, and sounds totally different from album to album. It shows to me it is a chameleon and simply plays what is there.

I use my Horn speakers as a datum, they have a fast and dynamic, full sound with a natural treble. They play very loud without any sign of stress. The LCD4s are very close to my speakers. Whereras the 009s are very different. Which is the most accurate is a personal judgement. But I made my choice.

On build quality, my 009s failed at 22 months, and I know many others that have had the same problem. I also know some 007s that have failed as well. It happens, as do some Audeze, some Utopias. Not heard of and Abyss going yet. But quality control is not only affecting non stats as I am sure you may know already.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Well if you guys want measurements:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD4.pdf

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009.pdf

Like astrostar59 said, at the end of the day we're all going to hear things differently. As far as build quality and longevity go, the SR-009 is notorious for channel imbalance. It's one of the most problematic really high end headphones around. The SR-007 however has proven very robust over the years as a whole, one of the safer high end headphone purchases you can buy and best value (easily outperforms headphones twice the cost in many areas due to its excellent electrostatic design which brings significant inherent benefits). Audeze's main problem is variation in drivers, more so than actual failures, since they're not a big enough company to be able to meet the same consistency standards as say Sennheiser or even Stax. But Audeze customer support is outstanding unlike Stax. The Abyss seems bulletproof.

 

[Thaudiophile]

@astrostar59, Rhamnetin has already provided some measurements(thank you Rhamnetin), you can also check out the thread on the other site called "one day ticket for STAX galaxy The Stax Compendium". You can also check out HD 800s measurements on innerfidelity.com, compare them yourself.


I don't own Stax, so I don't know about there customer service, but looking at the other forums, Stax 009 tends to be a exception, I haven't heard as many complains for other electrostats like 007, L700 but I have heard a lot complains about the QC of planars especially hifiman.

 

[PointyFox]

Oh my, but you are welcome to your opinion, but I will say I disagree strongly. Why you bring up the HD800, not sure. It has a terrible treble pitch and is very light / thin sounding, or tipped up I would say.

Show me the distortion is more in the Abyss or LCD4 v the 009 for the same output. I would like to compare those please. Besides measurements, I use my ears, and I ref back to live sound. The exaggerated low level detail thrust forward in the 009 is unnatural to my ears, but as I said, others will disagree. I asks myself some hard questions before I sold my 009s and Carbon, and the amount of use they were getting, enjoyment factor. I also realised I was avoiding certain types opt recordings. This is something I no longer have an issue with.

I had a cluster of hard test recordings for my 009 and Carbon v the LCD4s, such as Evanescence Fallen, Cranberries Zombie. The LCD4 won that contest easily. It is simply more forgiving and without pitch issues. I never listened to those recording on the 009s without diving for the volume pot.

I don't here the grain and grit in the LCD4. It has silky smooth mids, liquid treble, no pitching, no emphasis. The bass is, well I don't need to talk about that, it is unsurpassed, maybe by the Abyss Phi, but only just. In fact the LCD4 is so smooth I can listen for hours, loud and without any fatigue at all. It is very natural sounding, and sounds totally different from album to album. It shows to me it is a chameleon and simply plays what is there.

I use my Horn speakers as a datum, they have a fast and dynamic, full sound with a natural treble. They play very loud without any sign of stress. The LCD4s are very close to my speakers. Whereras the 009s are very different. Which is the most accurate is a personal judgement. But I made my choice.

On build quality, my 009s failed at 22 months, and I know many others that have had the same problem. I also know some 007s that have failed as well. It happens, as do some Audeze, some Utopias. Not heard of and Abyss going yet. But quality control is not only affecting non stats as I am sure you may know already.

I'm actually going from the LCD-4 to the Sr007a. I'm hoping I'll like the Sr007a better. Also speaking of build quality, I sold my LCD-4 which was the latest 200 Ohm version and it experienced a driver failure in the mail on the way to the buyer.