[spritzer]

I hate the stock 727 with the 007Mk1 but it's a better fit with 009.  I don't think this was intentional though as the decisions taken during the design process have two very different roots.  With the 009 Stax are back on a usual path with a new magic diaphragm film supposed to make everything better. 
 
Quote:

Agreed but the LCD-2 R1 isn't nearly as transparent as the current production LCD-3 when both are driven by a very good amp and source.  The R2 is a little better than the R1 IMO.  The LCD-3 is capable of sounding great in a well matched system and IMO competitive with the SR-009.  I have the 3 Audeze headphones mentioned here and the SR-009.  My LCD-3 was repaired just a few weeks ago and is representative of the current production level.  The 009 has the edge in transparency and detail retrieval but the difference is slight.  The LCD-3 has more bass presence than the 009 in my system (again not by a lot but it is noticeable) and that gives it an edge if your taste prefers that sound signature.  I like having both the ortho and the electrostatic systems at my disposal depending on the recording and my mood.  My dynamic and electrostatic systems are both very enjoyable and the differences are there but definitely not a far cry apart.

 
Upgrade that A-10 to a Stax SRM-323 and report back is pretty much all I can say.  Might also get a good dynamic amp while you are at it. 

 

[rgs9200m]

Well, back in the mid-late 1990s, Stax seemed to always offer a phone/amp combo as a matched pair, like the SR007 phone/007t or 717 amp (and the Lambda/T1W before that). 
They  were reviewed that way as a matched pair in the magazines and early online publications, and the dealers usually offered them as "system" combination that should not be tampered with,
at least that was what I found when I bought these 90s pairs. There seemed to be a new amp introduced to mate with each new model of phones.
 
So I assume that they were developed in tandem, and meant to be used that way. Of course they were built to a price, but the price was pretty steep, like $6000 for the SR007/007t system.
So I think it's a pretty good guess that Stax did their listening tests with these systems, and not seriously with any non-Stax Amps.
 
The 009 seems to be the first phone in long time without a new matching amp, but since it was an evolution of the SR007, I find it hard to believe they didn't use the 007t (version 2, the latest one) and the 727
as the target amps for it. Maybe this time around, because of the price of the 009s, they knew the target buyer would be looking at a non-Stax amp, and that's why they did not stress the 009/Stax Amp "system" 
this time. (And also because they were a little embarrassed that they didn't have a new amp dedicated to the 009s, the pride-factor weighing in here.)
 
But I bet the engineers probably did the same thing they did with the SR007, and tuned the 009 to the existing Stax amps.
It just didn't feel right to them I bet to say here's our new great "system": a NINE-series phone with a SEVEN-series amp.
But that is probably how the 009s were designed.
 
This is just my theory, and feel free to blast away at it, but to my ears, the proof is in the listening.

 

[arnaud]

Interesting hypothеsis. It has some sick logic - to adjust $$$$ headphones to mediocre amps. But who cares if the result is good sound?
My omegas were terrible with SRM-727II and I sold it to head-fier that owns 009s. I hope he's satisfied.

Just to clarify, have you even heard the 009 out of stax amps, or just extrapolating from your experience with omega 2? If so, stop guessing because it's quite a different animal. Also, putting a price tag on the amp required for the 009 is just silly talk, and I believe spritzer will demonstrate it by his work.

Finally, the source & material upstream becomes rather critical with the 009 so again, it makes little sense to talk about just the amp and nothing else.

Not saying the 009 doesn't deserve more than a stax amp and would love to be able to hear it but for now I can say that my stax rig does not sound unnaturally bright or forward. So far, anything else I listen to (including the lcds) is not just a different flavor but also much less satisfying in terms of finesse, resolution, imaging, to mention a few.

 

[brat]

Quote:

Just to clarify, have you even heard the 009 out of stax amps, or just extrapolating from your experience with omega 2? If so, stop guessing because it's quite a different animal. Also, putting a price tag on the amp required for the 009 is just silly talk, and I believe spritzer will demonstrate it by his work.

I doubt that stax made their new flagship having in mind the features and shorcomings of their amps just to make a good synergy with them, that was the point of the post I quoted. I didn't say anything bad for sr-009, maybe you understand my words in a wrong way. And no, I haven't heard them yet.

 

[arnaud]

Quote:

I doubt that stax made their new flagship having in mind the features and shorcomings of their amps just to make a good synergy with them, that was the point of the post I quoted. I didn't say anything bad for sr-009, maybe you understand my words in a wrong way. And no, I haven't heard them yet.

 
What I know is that Stax is working on a new amp for the 009 but clearly has some issues with the direction to go because, as Birgir mentioned, they'll never be able to go again toward a beast like the T2. Considering the 009 sounds awesome out of the current amps (they demo them with the 007t2 or 727), and that indeed the Omega 2 needs much more than their current amp offerings, it's difficult to imagine how they will make their design decisions.
 
In other words, I can't imagine a higher grade Stax amp that works significantly better than current offerings not only with the 009 (the cans it's supposed to pair with) but also with the more power hungry Omega 2s (because I assume that anyone would expect no less from an amp that will probably cost twice as much as the current top offerings) while at the same time remaining under realistic packaging size, weight and ultimately price constraints as they have resolved to in order to prevent another collapse of the company with great albeit non-selling products.
 
Considering the new design was partly aimed toward increased efficiency (smaller spacings in the stator, very lightweight diaphragm), I actually would not be surprised Stax made sure the 009 would not suck out of the current amps (especially considering the much higher cost of the headphone). After all, they're really only using these amps for demos anywhere and most of the critics made of the omega 2 (at least the mkI and mkII) are due to poor amplification rather than issue with the headphone itself...

 

[Anaxilus]

While the 009 isn't as difficult to drive as the 007, I find it scales quite well.  Haven't heard the 727 but the 009 sounds like crap from the 323 and many other stat amps.  I can only appreciate them fully on the DIY T2.

 

[brat]

I can't explain to myself the discrepancy between stax earphones and amps. Having in mind the new owner of the company we may expect some new beast amp at a reasonable price. Made in China.

 

[daveDerek]

Quote:

While the 009 isn't as difficult to drive as the 007, I find it scales quite well.  Haven't heard the 727 but the 009 sounds like crap from the 323 and many other stat amps.  I can only appreciate them fully on the DIY T2.

 
wow, that's quite a statement, and of course you're entitled to your opinion. a number of the early adopters of the 009 were quite pleased running them off of a 323. while it might not have been fully strutting it's stuff it certainly sounded anything but 'like crap'! rather it sounded spectacular, and it gets better from there. i have heard the 009 out of any # of amps including the 007t, wes, cavalli, kgss, bhse, t2, and a couple of others, and i've never heard them sound less than special. they dig out the details like no other can, and do so in a musical, not sterile, fashion. some may find them a bit bright at times but not like the hd800 can be, and of course that's affected by what's feeding it, both hardware and software. the other potential knock is that it can sound a bit thin in body, especially compared to a good planar, but that can be said about most 'stats. i attended a mini-meet last november that unfortunately never got written up, but all of us that were there had a great time comparing multiple 009s, 007s and some other cans on a few amps, including side by side bhse & t2. the consensus amongst the participants seemed to be that while there were certainly differences between the bhse & t2, they were not vast. the t2 certainly did not thrash and trash the bhse and some folks might overall prefer the less complicated, less expensive brethren.

 

[Elysian]

From what you remember from the meet, how would you characterize the difference between the BHSE and T2 when using the 007?

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:
 
Okay, 'crap' might be hyperbolic but I found them lacking body, dynamics and just effing boring as hell and not particularly resolving on the 323.  I wouldn't have paid $1000 let alone $4-5K for the 009 if I had to be tied to the 323 and given up my HD800 rig the way I have it dialed in.  Honestly I find the praise of the 009 on lesser entry level amps to be rather hyped and hyperbolic tbh and simply infatuation w/ a more modern colored ethereal Stax sound even compared to their more classic phones, Senn's stats and even the Jade.  The T2 is amazing and does it justice though I was underwhelmed the first time I heard it only later to find out it was the source and not the amp causing the problem.  I'd be curious to hear what the BHSE and T2 were being fed at your meet.  FYI I've only heard the BH not the BHSE.  I am also not easily amused or impressed by thin delicate notes rising from the ether combined with a lack of dynamics.  That sort of thing is basically the inverse coloration of Beats to me and sounds nothing like actual music or real instruments.  YMMV obviously.

 

[rudi0504]

Quote:

While the 009 isn't as difficult to drive as the 007, I find it scales quite well.  Haven't heard the 727 but the 009 sounds like crap from the 323 and many other stat amps.  I can only appreciate them fully on the DIY T2.

 
I am agree with you that Sr 009 is more easy to drive compare my Sr 007 mk 2 , to day i just recieved m y Sr 009 and i drive directly with my Srm 727 mk 2 with the source
 
CD Player Stello CDA 500 , sound quality is very good .
 
it is much better if i add Eximus Dp 1 as Pre amp and DAC and Srm 727 mk 2 as Power Amp, the Sound Quality improve a lot

 

[daveDerek]

Quote:

From what you remember from the meet, how would you characterize the difference between the BHSE and T2 when using the 007?

 
 
i don't recall trying those combos off hand. 'twas more focused on the 009 and amps. it's too bad no on e wrote up that meet. perhpas someone that was there has pix and notes. mebbe we can start a meet thread after all, even it's no longer so fresh.
 
 
Quote:

  I'd be curious to hear what the BHSE and T2 were being fed at your meet.

 
sorry, i don't recall this at the moment. it was not a k-01, or whatever the fotm is, though.

 

[rgs9200m]

Quote:

 
wow, that's quite a statement, and of course you're entitled to your opinion. a number of the early adopters of the 009 were quite pleased running them off of a 323. while it might not have been fully strutting it's stuff it certainly sounded anything but 'like crap'! rather it sounded spectacular, and it gets better from there. i have heard the 009 out of any # of amps including the 007t, wes, cavalli, kgss, bhse, t2, and a couple of others, and i've never heard them sound less than special. they dig out the details like no other can, and do so in a musical, not sterile, fashion. some may find them a bit bright at times but not like the hd800 can be, and of course that's affected by what's feeding it, both hardware and software. the other potential knock is that it can sound a bit thin in body, especially compared to a good planar, but that can be said about most 'stats. i attended a mini-meet last november that unfortunately never got written up, but all of us that were there had a great time comparing multiple 009s, 007s and some other cans on a few amps, including side by side bhse & t2. the consensus amongst the participants seemed to be that while there were certainly differences between the bhse & t2, they were not vast. the t2 certainly did not thrash and trash the bhse and some folks might overall prefer the less complicated, less expensive brethren.

If you remember, did you find that the 007t deals very well with the upper mids and highs of the 009s (as I do)? Thanks.
I happen to love this combo.

 

[daveDerek]

Quote:

If you remember, did you find that the 007t deals very well with the upper mids and highs of the 009s (as I do)? Thanks.
I happen to love this combo.

 
i don't recall at the moment. when i have a chance i'll see about trying to get that thread up and getting the group there to voice their findings and recollections.

 

[sachu]

I never thought i would find myself even considering buying the 009, BUT, They made a big enough impression on me, particularly with the Cavalli Liquid LIghtning to actually buy one.
 
A pair of 009s should be arriving sometime late next week for my enjoyment and sincere consideration.
 
I will also have my O2mk1 to compare against it more thoroughly than the brief comparison session i had with them on the LL back in February.
 
Needless to say, am excited!