SR-009 vs Orpheus/SR-Omega/O2s?

[chinsettawong]

Thai Head-fi mini-meeting in Bangkok, Thailand went well today.  There were 7 participants including me today.  We did a lot of intensive listening and did some tube rollings.  KT77 Gold Lion from Kiertijai didn't play music on this T2 as well as Officebird's Mullard EL34.  Our unanimous consensus was that Orpheus was still the best sounding headphone.  For second place, most of us liked SR007MK1.  SR009 came in third and followed by SR-Omega mesh stators. 
 
Here are some pictures from the meeting:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Everybody has his own preferences, ours are just ours. 

 

[chinsettawong]

Quote:

Congrats on the beautiful amp   Out of curiosity, does your ranking hold consistent for other stat amps, or is this only relevant to the DIY T2?
 
The two things I'm really enjoying about the SR007 is how tuneable the sound is, and how non-fatiguing they are.  After I finish tweaking my setup, I'd like to give a SR009 another shot.

Hi Elysian,
 
Only my DIY T2 is able to drive all these headphones with ease.  The other 2 amps that I have don't have the sufficient voltage swing to cope with the headphones demand.  So yes, it is only relevant to my DIY T2.
 
Wachara C.
 

 

[kiertijai]

Congratulations to Chinsettawong for organizing this excellent mini-meeting.
I think after the flood problem we may have to compare Woo Wes vs DIY T2 .
Birdoffice has mentioned that SR009 is better off with the Woo Wes with adequate tube rolling.
I agree with Patrick that we need to compare those headphones using different amplifiers.  We have
Woo Wes at the moment,  we are waiting for the BHSE and Aristaeus.  I don't think we will have
Ray Samuels A10 in the near future, nor the Cavalli Liquid Lightning.  We will have KGSSHV soon
as several of our members will begin the assembly of the DIY KGSSHV.  We also have to wait
until February 2012 for the Electra standard version to come out.  We still have a long way to go.
Besides the electrostatic amplifiers and headphones, we also have to compare with the best past
and present dynamic and orthodynamic headphones with appropriate setup : R10 bass light , bass heavy,
Qualia 010, LCD3, HE6, HD800, AKG K1000, PS1, HP1000, Ultrasone etc. Several modded headphones:
V4 Symphones magnum, V4 Terminator, LA7000, Smeggy or LFF Thunderpants are other contenders.
That will be a lot of fun

 

[coolcat]

I'm so regret,that I couldn't be there ,because of the flood.
 
 
 

 

[Elysian]

Hi kiertijai,
 
To follow-up on our conversations, I'm now very convinced that the SR007 is highly influenced by the entire signal chain behind it (converter, DAC, preamp, amp, tubes, connections, and still need to test unbalanced vs balanced chain (unfortuntaely my GES is unbalanced only)).  Recently had a friend over who is familiar with a lot of gear listen closely to my rig for an extended period of time and he provided a lot of good critical analysis.  We're going to have a few more people listen (both from the audiophile and from the professional camps) to get more input. I'll also be able to start experimenting with more input and output tubes within a week or two.
 
I don't have long-term experience with the SR009, but am curious if it's similarly as malleable from the signal chain.  I found it interesting that your group preferred the SR007 over the SR009, as I also was one of the few people who preferred the SR007.  For me, it's not a matter of gear pride.  If the SR009 was amazing to me, I would have bought one immediately.  I don't think it suits the sound that I'm building my entire system around.
 
I am very interested to hear your group's future commentary on the DIY T2 vs BHSE vs WES (and other amps as available) on the top-tier stat headphones.

 

[kiertijai]

I'm so regret,that I couldn't be there ,because of the flood.
@Coolcat,   please help us organize other meeting to compare the Woo Wes vs DIY T2.
I do think the SR009 has great potentials but also needs its optimal set up , that's the same for
every headphones.
If the Super 7 arrive before Christmas,  I will also bring and then we can compare with the HD800
LCD's, R10 , Qualia 010 etc.  From the initial impression the Super 7 is one of the best amplifier
to drive the HD800 and LCD's
 

 

[nicholas029]

Quote:

I've been gearing up for a SR-007 and SR-009 comparison for a while now, quickly eliminating the SR-007 Mk2 (SZ3) from the comparison since it is can't play with the big boys due to its excessively forward nature and the SR-007A (SZ2) bass suffers a bit in its completely unmodified state.  That just leaves the Mk1 which is my first set and now about 9 years old so I took some time to completely refurbish it.  I stripped the set down completely, hand selected new drivers for it (these were from the earliest version of the Mk1 even though my set had the newer version) and installed well worn Mk2 earpads.  The arc on this set has also been carefully manipulated to fit my head like a glove which does do quite a bit to the sound. 
 
I get good results from both headphones from my KGSS so I used that and kept the volume level fixed (keeping a flat gain level in software) at a midpoint so while the SR-009 is a bit louder than the SR-007 but doesn't suffer too much.  Both sets were plugged in at the same time which isn't ideal but necessary to remove any doubts about charge issues.  Music was what ever the computer threw at me at random. 
 
Both are truly stunning headphones but for my tastes the SR-007 comes out on top at least for the majority of the time.  The SR-007 bass is rounder, more fleshed out while the 009's is a bit brighter but not really faster.  Just a tiny bit thinner which lends it an edge like feel to it.  I wouldn't call it one note by any means but the 007 can pull off more range here.  The midrange and sound stage are where these cans really shine and leave others in the dust.  Here the 007 has a darker tone but also a slightly more natural feel where voices sound eerily real.  The 009 is brighter but this brightness dances on an razors edge so if the recording is anything but perfect the voices have a strange edge to them.  Not all that dissimilar to the etch found on old Lambdas but not nearly as pronounced.  Even on well recorded material the midrange is a bit too pronounced for my tastes so voices stand out too much.  The soundstage isn't that dissimilar between the two sets, extended and 3d where instruments and voices appear out of thin air in a 180°arc around the face.  The 009 has a slight edge here but it isn't by much.  Same deal with the top end, the 009 edges out a win with its more forward nature but one has to be careful not to push the volume too far or they become quite strident and in-your-face.  Detail retrieval is also pretty much a tie even though they present it a bit differently.  The 009 is more forward so the detail is more prominent but the 007 easily matches it but in a more subtle fashion. 
 
For me the SR-007's edges it out based on its real strength, they are smooth yet revealing which no other transducer I've heard can truly match.  Both phones are keepers and I'm glad Stax have the SR-009 now for people who like the more forward nature of the SR-Omega but built properly.  In fact, its build quality even shames the SR-007 which is no small feat. 

There are many reading these comments.  No modifications.  As someone who has been impressed over the years with signature 404's and subsequently with Lambda 507's through a base 006t2, I am as we speak and based on many of the comments here currently waiting on a 2012 BHSE and can purchase either the available 007 Omega 2 or 009's.  My source material is an LP12 with ARC tube pre or an ARC DAC 8 for digital playback..   I relish the classic tube bloom of midrange and have age related high frequency loss.  I listen to acoustic rock which is all inclusive.  I do not intend to buy both the 007 and the 009 but will go with one of them.  I have gathered that the prevailing opinion is that the BHSE makes the 007's sing and that the 009's may be a tad bright initially but altogether the superior choice.. Useful comments appreciated.  
 

 

[Elysian]

You've got some great gear.  I'd love to hear an ARC pre (3? 5?) and DAC 8 together sometime for the soundstaging capabilities.  I was close to getting a DAC 8, but ended up opting for the BADA.
 
Based on my brief time with the SR009, if you listen to primarily acoustic music, then I think it's a toss-up between the 007 and 009.  If you like to focus on details, the 009 may be better, but if you prefer the bass and overall composition of the sound, then 007.  I found the 007 less fatiguing, but I am sensitive to brightness.  Based on a first impression of the 009, I found the 007 more relaxing to listen to, and that's one of my favorite aspects of the 007 (the lack of fatigue).
 
Should be a lot of BHSE impressions incoming as batches 1 and 2 are released.

 

[pachku]

I still think that the complaints regarding the brightness are mostly based on the setup of the chain. While a BHSE / O2 sounds best with XF2 tubes, this is IMHO too bright for the 009. I'm running a quad of new issue KT77 with the BHSE / 009 now, and this sounds just fine, definitely the best combo I've heard so far in my house. I'd guess that most Stax aficionados had optimized their chains for the O2, and this won't really work for the 009.

 

[n3rdling]

I've still yet to hear the 009 sound bright.  You guys must be listening at some insane volumes (IME many HFers do).

 

[kiertijai]

I still think that the complaints regarding the brightness are mostly based on the setup of the chain. While a BHSE / O2 sounds best with XF2 tubes, this is IMHO too bright for the 009. I'm running a quad of new issue KT77 with the BHSE / 009 now, and this sounds just fine, definitely the best combo I've heard so far in my house. I'd guess that most Stax aficionados had optimized their chains for the O2, and this won't really work for the 009.
      I was not there at the meeting .  I provided them the headphones and some tubes.  However I also found that driven by modded 727A the HE90 sounds brighter than the other.
I do not say that it is sibilant but some may like HE90 or SR omega which is less bright or O2mkI which is dark more as personal preferences.
      They did try the matched quad NOS (not reissure) KT 77 with the TFK Cca at the beginning but did not like that so they use the Mullard XF2 instead and that may be part of the reason
 
You guys must be listening at some insane volumes (IME many HFers do).
     @Milos ,  No I don't think they did listen that loud
     Birdoffice who agreed that the HE90 is better , ranked the SR009 close to the HE90.  He used his Woo Wes with some tube rolling and said that matched very well with the SR009 and not
so bright.  I agreed that different headphones may need different setup for them to shine.
 
This is Birdoffice 's comment which agreed with jp11801
SR009 will be better match with WES when T2 better match with 007.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/484647/bhse...5#post_6585402
jp11801
"The choice for me would be:

amping O2's then the BHSE
amping Senn's or 4070's or Lambdas then I'd go WES

The BHSE locks in brilliantly with the 02 but I found it too bright with other stats.
The WES was jus a bit dull with the 02s but great with all others

just my 2 cents"
 
That's why we will try to arrange another minimeeting   Woo Wes vs DIY T2  with the electrostatic headphones
after the flood recovery.   Woo Wes could not make it this time as it was safe in the house surrounded by flood.

 

[spritzer]

The 009 is bright with every amp I throw at them (i.e. a lot of them...

) so it's clearly a characteristic of the transducers and not the systems.  Still it's less of an issue with well recorded music and at lower volume levels. 

 

[kiertijai]

The 009 is bright with every amp I throw at them (i.e. a lot of them...

) so it's clearly a characteristic of the transducers and not the systems
      @Birgir  so do you prefer the SR009 over the O2mkI?
      Are there any way to help for those who found that it may be too bright for them?  besides the well recorded music and less volume listening.

 

[chinsettawong]

If you were to measure the capacitance of SR009 against that of SR007 or HE90, I'm sure that you will find it to be quite a bit lower.  That's the reason why SR009 sounds brighter.  There is nothing wrong with it being bright.  Some people might actually prefer it that way.
 
Wachara C.

 

[Scottsmrnyc]

I really must say that I don't think any of the new Stax Headphones or Stax Headphone Amps compare favorably to any of the old Stax Pro Line headphones or Stax Headphone amps.   Have you heard a pair of Sigma non pro low bias with the old Stax SRA 12S amps.  I have many pair of Stax Pro and No Pro Headphones and Amps and I don't think I will buy the new SR009s.  Truthfully I think you have it all wrong about the raving of the Orpheus and the SR009s.  I will write more later about this.  Old Stax is better than the new stax.  Yes, I have heard both the Orpheus and the SR009s many times.  There is something flawed with each of them.  It is a very small fuzzy/cloudy problem in the midrange section of either the headphones or their amps.  I was just listening to my Sigma with the SRA 12s and it sound great.  I had a 180 gram vinyl on my McIntosh Mt 10 Turntable playing through my McIntosh MX 135 Preamp/processor.  I don't think I have anywhere near the same quality of sound from the SR009s or the Orpheus.  Call me crazy if you like.