SR-009 vs Orpheus/SR-Omega/O2s?

[Tadj]

Here are my own opinion after the a few hours with the above set at Chinsettawong's office yesterday,....
 
This DIY-T2 amplifier is a great Electrostatics amplifier with unnoticeable noise floor with all Electrostatics headphones that I have tried, with the right Quad tubes will shine very well with the HE-90 and also match with the O2mkI but the SR-009 has shown a bit aggressive in the High and for a long listening might create fatique easily!
 
My preference are similar to the group which are,...
 
- HE-90 for the very wide stage presentation but the singer seems to stand back to the front stage a bit, even have done the tube rolling to help! good bass and treble with very musical sound
- O2mkI is very good with this DIY-T2 and shine very well indeed,...the vocal seem to stand close to me, out of the band and music! this is my preferred headphone for now!
- SR-009 is shown too bright and very pushing sound pressure, may due to the easiest STAX to drive with, the overall sound show too much detail and seem to Bright in overall with good bass and treble's 
- Stax Omega, mesh grill, is the fun headphone, with the required 30% more power to drive but the outcome is very fun to listen to, this is the STAX that has the similar sound signature to the HE-5/6 Ortho-Dynamics 
 
The DIY-T2 is very good but you have to choose the right headphone to drive to,.... this is not to judge each headphone but only to compare each one of them when driven with the DIY-T2 with the choice of selected tubes only, the change of component and tubes may vary to outcome of the results,....

 

[arnaud]

I may have missed it, but what was the music listened for the Thai head-fiers meet? Could there be something going on with the music you guys listen to?
 
Reading these comments between the 009 and DIY T2 and the Omega 2 mkII being systematically preferred make be really puzzled. I don't think I'll even try to do the spritzer mod on my amp if it's the exact distortion of the stock that make my 009 sing at the moment... I guess the fact I have experience with the Omega 2 mkII rather than mkI also affects this but really, there are only very very few of my recordings I would ever prefer with the Omega 2. The 009 trounces it on so many levels  it isn't funny (resolution, impact, bass extension and control, soundstage width and precision, instrument layering, treble extension / speed as in cymbals shimmer). Heck, even some recordings that sounded a bit grainy / metallic on the 007A actually are more natural through the 009.
 
One thing for sure though, I do listen at moderate volumes and I don't like pushing the volume when listening to the 009 apart from very few recordings. So, unless I am so lucky to be benefiting from a distorting amplifier, I think a lot of this like / dislike boils down to listening level, preferred style of music, and having built a system around the Omega 2 mkI or not (the latter in my case).

 

[chinsettawong]

Hi Arnaud,
 
It all comes down to personal preference.  One person might prefer it a certain way, while the others might prefer otherwise.  Even though I think that HE90 sounds the best, I also think that my DIY phones aren't that far behind. And yes, I do prefer listening to my DIY phones.  That's my preference. 
 
Wachara C.
 
 

 

[Birdoffice]

Stax authorized dealer in Thailand have stax 007 mk1, mk2, sigma and 009 for customer to try out. 
Sigma give 3D sound, mk2 is darkest compare to other, both 007 mk1 and 009 just right but mk1 darker than 009. I buy 009 since it is the best in the current production line. Mk1 or R10 or HE90 must be obtained as second hand condition and worry about future support. The shop owner buy R10 and got problem on one speaker after a month.
 
I just recently try 009 on DIY T2. It seem to be too revealing. T2 better fit with 007 mk1
 
 
Woo Wes vs Woo Wes Max vs Personal modification which one is fit for 009?
I brought Woo Wes and found stock tube sound just ordinary nothing interesting. I have chance to listen on Woo Wes Max V-Cap with 50 year shugang tube but I don't like it due to v-cap sound signature is too reveal and too bright for 009, shugang give bigger sound stage but nothing more than that. (No wow factor)
 
Woo Wes Personal modification
I start modify Woo wes by changing Mundorf, the MCap Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil in the signal path and change the solder wire to mundorf as well. Sound signature is like what jimmy said in his link http://jimmyauw.com/2009/08/18/extreme-capacitors-battle-2nd-session/
"this capacitor has good staging and good emphasize in high frequency notes. While the oil inside this capacitor will still maintain the vocal from becoming to “cool” as the VCap. If you expect a live sound, while still expecting an adequate mid-vocal (don’t expect it would be too sweet)"
 
Tube rolling by mix and match between the following old stock tubes not reissued
-12au7 - Philip mini watt, Tungsol smoke glass, Tele rib plate, tele smooth plate
-Mullard gz34, gz37
-6SL7 RCA black base, Tungsol black glass
-mullard el34 xf2 single getter, xf4 D-getter, KT66 GEC, kt88 GEC
 
The tube set that give best performance on 009 is
 
Mullard gz37 - dull than gz34 but make 009 not too bright
Tele 12au7 smooth plate - audiophile signature
Quad 6sl7 Tungsol smoke glass - sweet vocal sound
Quad KT88 GEC - improve image and sound stage
 
Source: pioneer DV-s9
interconnect RCA Oyaide ftvs-910
 
Hope it help for the amp selection for 009 owner and plan to obtain WooWes vise versa. 
 
 

 

[kiertijai]

@Arnaud : We didn't try the O2 mkII in this minimeeting.   I also owned the O2mkII but I rate them lower than the O2mkI
and SR009.   For me O2mkII sound  is between the O2mkI and SR009.   O2mkII is brighter than the O2mkI and does not have the resolution,
transparency, detail of the SR009.  For me I don't think the O2mkII will match the SR009 like you said but  the O2mkI is different .  We also have
tried the 507 and HE60 but those could not match the phones that we just mentioned.  I don't listen to loud music and I don't think most of the 
Thai head-fiers do that.  I must admit that I did the Spritzer modification of the 727A to match the O2mkI but we don't use the 727A in this meeting
The DIY T2 assembly is just finished and it's our first listening experience together.  The DIY T2 and  setup is not tuned for any headphones
in particular.  From several threads I got the impression that the SR009 may not perform very well with strong SS amplifier or even BHSE but
more suitable to the Stax 007t.  That's the reason why I asked Birdoffice for the Woo Wes but it was not available due  to flood problem.  May be at the
next meeting we will try that , we also have the Stax 007t to try.
@Scottsmrnyc   I don't have experience with those phones and amplifiers so I can not comment  .  May be Khun Tadj or other Thai head-fiers
who have been there much longer than  me and have much more experiences can answer those comments
 

 

[pachku]

 
 

...but really, there are only very very few of my recordings I would ever prefer with the Omega 2. The 009 trounces it on so many levels  it isn't funny (resolution, impact, bass extension and control, soundstage width and precision, instrument layering, treble extension / speed as in cymbals shimmer). Heck, even some recordings that sounded a bit grainy / metallic on the 007A actually are more natural through the 009.
 
One thing for sure though, I do listen at moderate volumes and I don't like pushing the volume when listening to the 009 apart from very few recordings. So, unless I am so lucky to be benefiting from a distorting amplifier, I think a lot of this like / dislike boils down to listening level, preferred style of music, and having built a system around the Omega 2 mkI...

 
x2  

 

[Scottsmrnyc]

Perhaps if the Stax SR009s were priced a couple of thousand dollars less they might be a better deal as there isn't much of a sound improvement at all between it and the SR007s.  People who are selling their HE90s and have jacked up there prices to almost double and trip the original price have no ethics.  I have seen the HE 90 combo on sale or as high as $30,000 when they only paid $12,000 to $14,000 for it originally. Although I have many of the new Stax headphones, the old pro Stax headphones are just smoother, cleaner and cheaper to obtain.

 

[kiertijai]

  I hope I can love the SR009 more as I have spent 4000+$ for them .  That's why I try to find the appropriate set up for them
but I may have to spend several thousands $ more.
 @Scottsmrnyc if the Stax SR009s were priced a couple of thousand dollars less they might be a better deal as
there isn't much of a sound improvement at all between it and the SR007s
     That's why Thai minimeeting rated the SR009 lower than the O2mkI in almost all of them who have had chances to listen A/B
The hype of SR009 had hit Thai head-fiers after  the SR009 blog intially came out that highly favoured SR009 as the best headphone ever made.
More than ten preorders were made but after the first one or two SR009's arrrived in Thailand, that hype has quieted down remarkably
so as the sale.  Not only the sound signature has caused that but the problems of channel imbalance and dust  causes more future concern.
Some have concerns about the drivers of R10's, SR Omega's  or HE90's but that occurred much later than the SR009 which resurfaced within
less than one month.

 

[pachku]

 

...there isn't much of a sound improvement at all between it and the SR007s...

 
Sorry, but IME that's just wrong. No matter which amp (BHSE, 007t, or Aristaeus) the 009 is clearly the better headphone than the O2MK1 - everybody who has listened to my rig comes to the same conclusion, and the difference is far from subtle on almost any kind of music. It's harder to find clear objective differences between the Aristaeus / HE60 (another very good combo) and the BHSE/009 than between the O2 and the 009. Many of your posts make sense, but somehow I think you got lost in all the choices you had on the table here 

 

[arnaud]

 
Quote:

  I hope I can love the SR009 more as I have spent 4000+$ for them .  That's why I try to find the appropriate set up for them
but I may have to spend several thousands $ more.
 @Scottsmrnyc if the Stax SR009s were priced a couple of thousand dollars less they might be a better deal as
there isn't much of a sound improvement at all between it and the SR007s
     That's why Thai minimeeting rated the SR009 lower than the O2mkI in almost all of them who have had chances to listen A/B
The hype of SR009 had hit Thai head-fiers after  the SR009 blog intially came out that highly favoured SR009 as the best headphone ever made.
More than ten preorders were made but after the first one or two SR009's arrrived in Thailand, that hype has quieted down remarkably
so as the sale.  Not only the sound signature has caused that but the problems of channel imbalance and dust  causes more future concern.
Some have concerns about the drivers of R10's, SR Omega's  or HE90's but that occurred much later than the SR009 which resurfaced within
less than one month.

No offense kiertijai, but I am with pachku on this. I could understand if one expresses a preference for the darker sounding omega 2 (esp. If you're
listening to a lot of treble happy music). 
 
But saying the omega 2 is a systemically a better headphone brings 2 things to my mind:
1) either you guys have got yourselves convinced the sr009 is another of these hype machine and you're on a crousade to break some kind of fotm (and restore a status quo with the he90)
2) or something was seriously wrong with the setup at the last mini meet in thailand (the source, the material you guys listened to).
 
From your last post, I have a feeling there's a bit of both. Nothing wrong with   criticising as long as you're expressing honest feelings on your experience. But, I for one don't appreciate my original postings on the 009 being conveyed as some sort of hyping with no real ground (which your post above is implying) ... 
 
Lastly, I sure hope I will get to listen to you rig some day to see what it's all about
 
 

 

[Birdoffice]

I am in the mini meeting and more prefer 009 over 007 mk1 as 009 had better vocal and resolution while other prefer smooth relaxing signature of 007 mk1. I also prefer 009 on my Woo Wes than T2. 
 
For the setup, I would said we do not have enough tubes to do rolling and play around with DIY T2 as well as system around them. We start with KT77 gold lion and it sound too soft and lack of musical wow with HE90 and 009. I only have kt66 gec and mullard xf2 in my car during that day but I think 009 will be shine and get different opinion if it play with my kt88 gec. I already talk to kiertijai about this and plan to do rolling with more tubes on this DIY T2 by the team before compare the result next time and we plan to get woo wes to compare as well.
 
Any headphone need their match amplifier as well as match personal owner taste. 

 

[kiertijai]

1) either you guys have got yourselves convinced the sr009 is another of these hype machine and you're on a crousade to break some kind of fotm (and restore a status quo with the he90)
2) or something was seriously wrong with the setup at the last mini meet in thailand (the source, the material you guys listened to).
     I have no bad feeling on the SR009 , as stated earlier I tried to tame the brightness down to my personal perferences.  When I used my 727 modded
I have  used the Balancing Act  preamplifier function with tube rolling to some success.  The Balancing Act preamplifier function improves the soundstage with less
bright sound using adequate tubes.  Same as Birdoffice tried to do with his Woo Wes.
     I did not attend the mini-meeting so I can not comment on the set up that they used.  However I provided the NOS matched quad Gold lion KT77's
for this meeting, in hope to correct the brightness, but the KT 77 did not make it so they used the Mullard XF2 instead of the KT77.  Next time they have asked me about the
Philips EL34 metal base (or Philips miniwatts 4699, father of Philips EL34 metal base) but I don't think that will match the SR009 well so I think we have
to try the Mullard XF1, XF2 , Telefunken smooth plate and Philips XF4 .  Tesla EL34 will be there too .   For the 6DJ8's we may try the Mullard 4109 (7308)
and probably Valvo Cca pinched waist.
     My set up now is the Lindemann 820S as the CD player and Weiss DAC202 while the digital cable : Heaven Gates Super silence and interconnects : Analysis plus
golden oval XLR.  I don't think my system is bright at all.  I also use original redbook CD's, HDCD's, XRCD's for playback, no pirate CD's.  I can not use SACD with this
setup.
     I did not join the meeting and the opinions or consensus came from 7 head-fier members who are well known in Thailand and they know much more and have more
experience from me.  As you can see Birdoffice who owns Woo Wes + SR009 still prefers SR009 but not more than HE90.  While the rest rated O2mkI over SR009
I think part of that because the DIY T2 is too powerful amplifier which suits the dark sounding of O2mkI.  That's why Birdoffice may try to arrange one minimeeting comparing
Woo Wes, Woo Wes Maxed vs DIY T2.  I may also bring the Balancing Act with R10, Qualia, HE6, ?LCD3 etc.
 
But, I for one don't appreciate my original postings on the 009 being conveyed as some sort of hyping with no real ground (which your post above is implying) 
       I didn't mean to offend you.  If I did I apologize for that.   I think it's from the video that informed us that SR009 is the best headphone ever or perfect headphone.
       I think the same hype is also created right now for the LCD3 which cost 1000$ more than the LCD2 rev2, rev1.   I think it's the same pricing and marketing strategy from the company.
From this experience I do not jump on the bandwagon on the LCD3.  I think that the LCD3 is an excellent product but is it worth another 1000$ more ?  Is the LCD3 better than
the R10, Qualia, PS1, HP1000 or even Thunderpants?  I would like to know but it would cost me another 2000$ to do that.
    

 

[spritzer]

While the SR-007Mk1 is my preferred transducer I do think the 009 is very special and pretty much what the SR-Omega should have been.  It also does things the SR-007 never can dream of doing. 
 
Quote:

Stax authorized dealer in Thailand have stax 007 mk1, mk2, sigma and 009 for customer to try out. 
Sigma give 3D sound, mk2 is darkest compare to other, both 007 mk1 and 009 just right but mk1 darker than 009. I buy 009 since it is the best in the current production line. Mk1 or R10 or HE90 must be obtained as second hand condition and worry about future support. The shop owner buy R10 and got problem on one speaker after a month.
 
I just recently try 009 on DIY T2. It seem to be too revealing. T2 better fit with 007 mk1
 
 
Woo Wes vs Woo Wes Max vs Personal modification which one is fit for 009?
I brought Woo Wes and found stock tube sound just ordinary nothing interesting. I have chance to listen on Woo Wes Max V-Cap with 50 year shugang tube but I don't like it due to v-cap sound signature is too reveal and too bright for 009, shugang give bigger sound stage but nothing more than that. (No wow factor)
 
Woo Wes Personal modification
I start modify Woo wes by changing Mundorf, the MCap Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil in the signal path and change the solder wire to mundorf as well. Sound signature is like what jimmy said in his link http://jimmyauw.com/2009/08/18/extreme-capacitors-battle-2nd-session/
"this capacitor has good staging and good emphasize in high frequency notes. While the oil inside this capacitor will still maintain the vocal from becoming to “cool” as the VCap. If you expect a live sound, while still expecting an adequate mid-vocal (don’t expect it would be too sweet)"
 
Tube rolling by mix and match between the following old stock tubes not reissued
-12au7 - Philip mini watt, Tungsol smoke glass, Tele rib plate, tele smooth plate
-Mullard gz34, gz37
-6SL7 RCA black base, Tungsol black glass
-mullard el34 xf2 single getter, xf4 D-getter, KT66 GEC, kt88 GEC
 
The tube set that give best performance on 009 is
 
Mullard gz37 - dull than gz34 but make 009 not too bright
Tele 12au7 smooth plate - audiophile signature
Quad 6sl7 Tungsol smoke glass - sweet vocal sound
Quad KT88 GEC - improve image and sound stage
 
Source: pioneer DV-s9
interconnect RCA Oyaide ftvs-910
 
Hope it help for the amp selection for 009 owner and plan to obtain WooWes vise versa. 
 
 

Have you done any circuit mods beyond simply swapping caps?  I'm working on finalizing my own version of the WES and IMO the money would be far better spent throwing away those inductors for a 10M90 based CCS and replacing the entire PSU.  Mine will use a stacked version of the Blue Hawaii PSU and even higher rail voltages.  Probably Mundorf Supreme caps since I have a stash of them and they work well for a high voltage crazy like me. 
 

 

[blubliss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiertijai /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I think part of that because the DIY T2 is too powerful amplifier which suits the dark sounding of O2mkI. 

 
Another inaccurate statement.  You haven't even heard the amp, so why not wait to make statements until you do.
 
IMO, the DIY T2/009 combo is the best I have ever heard.  The 007 is great on the T2 as well but it has a darker tonality.
 
Arnaud said it well before when he guessed that, "a lot of this like / dislike boils down to listening level, preferred style of music".
 
 

 

[Birdoffice]

 
Quote:

While the SR-007Mk1 is my preferred transducer I do think the 009 is very special and pretty much what the SR-Omega should have been.  It also does things the SR-007 never can dream of doing. 
 

Have you done any circuit mods beyond simply swapping caps?  I'm working on finalizing my own version of the WES and IMO the money would be far better spent throwing away those inductors for a 10M90 based CCS and replacing the entire PSU.  Mine will use a stacked version of the Blue Hawaii PSU and even higher rail voltages.  Probably Mundorf Supreme caps since I have a stash of them and they work well for a high voltage crazy like me. 
 

Only swapping the caps. I am very interesting on your modification using CCS if it can make Wes better. Would you please share more information of the detail circuit, cost and sound character and place to buy component
Many thank