[brunk]

 
So why should anyone buy an over-powered speaker amp for use with headphones - especially if you have to attenuate the output?  Because the amp itself might bring something to the table that you're not able to get from any other amp you've heard.
 
Seriously, it's surely not the 110W into 8 Ohms that Gary is exploiting when he listens to his Odyssey Audio Cyclops Extreme - fed directly into his LCD-3.  He's using a tiny fraction of that power.  No... He must just be attracted to those same qualities that make the amp so popular with HiFi enthusiasts - the amp's sound!
 
Mike

Well said Mike, that was my point i was trying to get across previously. You just did it much more poetically than me

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Brink. I am with you. The amps ORIGNAL design and use even now is for bass and subwoofers. This is where large power amps is needed and just sit there and cook if class A or even AB. my rig in NC. has the krell evo amps .

Those amps are on fire so hot that I need a fan and supplemental cooling when they are on. Now given there 800 watts @ 4 ohms there is 2 of them mono blocks and the woofers have the same kind of amp at 2000 watts Each Column .

The heat alone is dumb. Much less the total waste of electric used .

But for sound class a or ab is it.

Al

 

[brunk]

Brink. I am with you. The amps ORIGNAL design and use even now is for bass and subwoofers. This is where large power amps is needed and just sit there and cook if class A or even AB. my rig in NC. has the krell evo amps .

Those amps are on fire so hot that I need a fan and supplemental cooling when they are on. Now given there 800 watts @ 4 ohms there is 2 of them mono blocks and the woofers have the same kind of amp at 2000 watts Each Column .

The heat alone is dumb. Much less the total waste of electric used .

But for sound class a or ab is it.

Al

Yeah, I have personal experience of the heat you mention from my home theater rig. 3,000 Class A watts total. Not including the subwoofer amps. It's like you're in the Sahara desert if you don't have alot of ventilation in the room. That is where I see the major benefit of Class D amps. I think Class H is going to see a huge push very soon on the market. Technology is really starting to catch up with the quality of Class A, but it'll never best it.

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Lmao. Yea . It's just old technology that now is being replaced. I cannot imagine what racks of tubes must be like.

Al

 

[brunk]

Lmao. Yea . It's just old technology that now is being replaced. I cannot imagine what racks of tubes must be like.

Al

It's funny how alot of the oldest technology is still the best. Yeah racks of tubes are a sight to behold, and definitely not something you want if your listening area is accessible to children.

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Oh yes. In my attic I had a few tube amps and my freakin cats would go by them when they were on for the warmth . Bad idea. They are in my office now .

Al

 

[gjc11028]

The amps you heard were with speakers or headphones ??

Speakers

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Ok thanks.

Al

 

[potterma]

   
L-pads have been around for decades now.
 
There's still no need for all the extra power, especially if it means all you're doing is amplifying noise then trimming it back down with resistors. Nevermind that it's all waste heat. Nevermind that you're most likely operating far away from the amplifier's ideal/optimal range.
 
I know it's practically heresay, but c'mon guys pick something with a suitable range for headphone usage instead of slapping a bandaid solution on something ill suited for the task. Or if you really insist on the megawatt amps then use those transformers/autoformers and be done with it (like the McIntosh headphone amp coming out)

 
School me on this.  What are you referring to about the amp's "ideal/optimal range"?  Load (impedance) you are driving?  Sensitivity of the drivers?

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Sniff sniff. I smell I fight brewing.
The only Merritt in this is the volume pot and it affecting the sound .
Al

 

[Armaegis]

 
I guess I needed to put smiley faces in my post to indicate that I wasn't really serious about wanting that much power to run headphones.  But if an amp is well designed, sounds good, and is low cost, should we be scared off by the excess power, particularly if it can be attenuated with little loss of fidelity?
 
Would one of these ICE amps work better than a lower-power amp of a different design?  Maybe, maybe not.  It depends on the design of the amps, and of the headphones... right?
 
Again, I'm not recommending any of these amps, since I've never heard them.  I'm simply curious as to how the latest ICE technology sounds compared to other approaches.

 
My gripe with it is the silliness of using amps with too much gain and high noise floors that are unsuitable for headphone usage, then juryrigging a solution by chopping down the output.
 
 

Gary. Class D. Amps have a perticular sound to them. They are not a wire with a gain. I wouldn't use those for headphones unless you know you like that kind of house sound.
 

 

  I haven't met a Class D amp i have liked...yet. The Ncore amps are the only ones that pique my interest, but is still way overkill for even the HE-6 IMO.
 
Don't let that stop you guys though, if it sounds good then who cares what any of us say. 

 
I'm actually a fan of class D amps, and in my (not extensive, but not limited either) experience they've meshed better with my HE-6 than typical A or A/B amps.
 
I am also a big fan of having actual desk space.
 
 

  So why should anyone buy an over-powered speaker amp for use with headphones - especially if you have to attenuate the output?  Because the amp itself might bring something to the table that you're not able to get from any other amp you've heard.
 
 

 
This is more a gripe I have with where the HE-6 sits in terms of amping requirements. It's not really suitable for headphone amps, and not really suitable for speaker amps... but it just happens that speaker amps cope better and so there are more options to explore. More power generally equates to improved perceived sound quality, and placebo lets us overlook all the other deficiencies.
 
But I've prattled about this before, so I don't feel like repeating myself.
 
 

   
School me on this.  What are you referring to about the amp's "ideal/optimal range"?  Load (impedance) you are driving?  Sensitivity of the drivers?

 
Well just speaking in generalities, amps have various "sweet spots" (best THD/noise/whatever specs) in their operating range, be it voltage or current delivery or load impedance. A headphone load is not going to come close to any of those. Doing some trickery with L-pads might work (a three-resistor network might get you closest) but that's not a true solution and you're wasting energy as heat (but if you're a class A proponent, then you don't really care about that anyways). At least planars don't have to worry about damping factor as much. Using resistors to adhoc output impedance sorta works, but isn't a proper solution either.

 

[Gary in MD]

It all really depends on whether the jury-rigged system sounds better to the listener/owner, or offers more value because it performs as well as other solutions but costs less.  The important thing is for the person buying the rig to like it better than the alternatives. 
 
A high-power class D or H amp driving headphones through a resistor network isn't going to use that much more electricity (and might actually use less) than a lower-power class A head-amp, particularly if the system isn't being used more than a few hours per day. 
 
Bottom line: if folks think their jury-rigged system sounds good, at a price they are willing to pay, then the world is a happier place for it... at least to them.

 

[zilch0md]

  [snip]
 
Bottom line: if folks think their jury-rigged system sounds good, at a price they are willing to pay, then the world is a happier place for it... at least to them.

 

[Armaegis]

Well hey, I'm also the guy who says ditch the resistors and slap big autoformers on the ends of the amps. So I'm just a nutzo as you guys, but in a different flavour

 

[Senn-Fi]

If you are that allergic to soldering you can just use clips/electrical tape :rolleyes: . Seriously though, soldering RCA/XLR/IEC sockets takes like 10 minutes top, and anyone can do it - it's an easy job - maybe just ask your nearest electrical repair shop =).

Anyway I think someone had tried the Ncores with the He-6 - it's buried somewhere in the He6 thread

That was probably me. To me, the NCores sounded great powering the HE-6. It was definitely better than my BHA1. I sold the HE 6, so I haven't tried it with my new Karan KAI-180, which is a class AB integrated that is HEAVILY biased to class A. I have tried the Karan with HD800 with the HE adaptor. I also use it with the Woo Wee/SR-007 and of course with my speakers. I can't decide whether I like the Karan or the NCore/BAT VK 52SE combo better. I guess they both have their own distinctive sound. I would say the NCore amps are a bit more detailed and transparent and the Karan are a bit more organic and smooth. I think the depth of the soundstage is a bit deeper (with speakers) with the BAT/NCore combo.

I agree that putting together the NCore amps is super easy as a DIY project. My only problem was that I tried to use Cardas wire which has some type of enamel on it that makes it VERY hard to solder. I replaced it with some other wire from parts connection and after that the soldering was super easy.

If you have not soldered anything before, a quick YouTube video will have you up and soldering in no time.