There are threads having many times more pages than this thread, but it is highly uncommon for a specific product thread to be still fairly frequently discussed with new owners chiming in after 3 years of its release, and it is also not too common these days for a manufacturer to maintain a product's flagship status for that long. They must have done something right with the Z5. As days gone by I tend to think these are the very best hybrids out there even with the great many hybrids released after them from very reputable brands (finally got the chance to try out the Dorado the other day and as good as it is still dun think it can displace the Z5)