[Maelob]

The best cable I heard on the Z1R is the copper LQI cable.

By the way is the only one I heard besides the stock .

 

[music_man]

100% agree. If one does not already love the headphone, no cable is going to make them. Even if you do love it, you may prefer the stock cable. I feel that the Axios pure silver took what I liked about them up about 15%. Worth that much? Up to anyone. Many may prefer the opposite direction with copper. Cables are personal but do change the sound. Which incidentally is most noticed on headphones of all things.

The bottom line any way you cut it the stock cable is junk. Copper clad silver is the cheapest industrial wire. Cannot even be OCC or even 99.97. It is full of impurities and $3. If you like it so be it. Famous McIntosh coat hanger there if so. I love these. More than both R10's, 010, SR009 anything.

They are not super accurate but they have that "good 'ol time rock 'n roll" going on. As a pro musician in the early 90's there was a synthesizer/sampler equivalent of these. The Ensoniq ASR10. Kanye West makes a fortune with it to this day. Stood the test of time. As no doubt these headphones shall in many a mind. Legendary. You have to look past, no they are not a Planar or any other headphone. They are something to behold in their own right. YMMV!

I wanted to point out something funny that has no bearing on sound of course. I am sure it has been discussed. Perhaps these shall garner more hype packaged ala Grado style lol. The boxes are a stark contrast to say the least. Grado focuses on what is inside. I prefer the Z1R to the PS2KE but just making a joke.

NO, not those wires Jason! Those are the wires that prompt us to purchase power conditioning lol. Nice pic nonetheless. I have large property with it's own utility transformer. I ran the best(within reason) 0000 cables I could to my residence. It is really beyond the transformer, cap and switch that matters most. I was lucky enough to do so. Still use balanced power conditioning.

Happy Holiday's.​

 

[raybies]

The bottom line any way you cut it the stock cable is junk. Copper clad silver is the cheapest industrial wire. Cannot even be OCC or even 99.97. It is full of impurities and $3. If you like it so be it. Famous McIntosh coat hanger there if so. I love these. More than both R10's, 010, SR009 anything.

I'm not going to argue all your points as you seem to have fallen head over heels for the Best Buy upsell, but I just want to set the record straight for anybody reading this...

The Z1R uses silver plated oxygen free copper wire

, which is more expensive than the pure oxygen free copper wire, and significantly more expensive than copper clad aluminium wire (CCA) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper-clad_aluminium_wire) which is commonly used, and most ebay/amazon sellers use when advertising pure oxygen free copper wire; I recently returned 2 reals of 12AWG pure oxygen free copper wire and this was after confirming with the vendor it was 100% real pure oxygen free copper wire and I would test it. The real copper 30m real cost $25/33% more, and a number of vendors admitted their 99.9% OFC was in fact CCA.

If anyone wants to cut their "junk" original Z1R cable, and show us some strands and cross section I can tell you if it's junk or not.

Debating cables is like debating religion or crypto, and I made my point previously on this thread... but know this; the audio signal both up and down stream from the cable will be going through mostly tin (Sn).

 

[ervin192]

I'm not going to argue all your points as you seem to have fallen head over heels for the Best Buy upsell, but I just want to set the record straight for anybody reading this...

The Z1R uses silver plated oxygen free copper wire

, which is more expensive than the pure oxygen free copper wire, and significantly more expensive than copper clad aluminium wire (CCA) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper-clad_aluminium_wire) which is commonly used, and most ebay/amazon sellers use when advertising pure oxygen free copper wire; I recently returned 2 reals of 12AWG pure oxygen free copper wire and this was after confirming with the vendor it was 100% real pure oxygen free copper wire and I would test it. The real copper 30m real cost $25/33% more, and a number of vendors admitted their 99.9% OFC was in fact CCA.

If anyone wants to cut their "junk" original Z1R cable, and show us some strands and cross section I can tell you if it's junk or not.

Debating cables is like debating religion or crypto, and I made my point previously on this thread... but know this; the audio signal both up and down stream from the cable will be going through mostly tin (Sn).

I've disassembled several stock cables, and I'm now on fully modding them. Cannot take a photo of it now but I remember there're others' posts, and comparing the wires of the Z1R cable with those of the Z7 cable (yes they're slightly different), etc.

The cable is indeed humble somehow; only the 2 cold wires are of silver plated OFC, the hot wires are pure copper actually. The conductor is multi-strand with Kevlar, about 28-30 awg. What's worse is that the 4 wires are simply placed in parallel with each other, with NO geometry at all.

But I have to admit the stock cable provides the most airy highs, despite its recessed, harsh mids. So I'm working on modding these.

 

[music_man]

Raybies, I stand corrected. Cannot argue because you are correct on that. I had read it was copper clad silver which indeed is cheap industrial wire.

Than comes Ervin? Regardless the axios is a better cable, agreed? Not if you believe in cables. It is in fact better built of better materials. How it sounds you be the judge. Grado stock cable on PS series is pretty good. Don't like stranded but solid is stiff and fragile. No worry for me because I take care of stuff. Still, it will break quicker than stranded. I think Axios is in fact stranded.
I stand by my opinion is axios silver made about 15% improvement to me. YMMV! Worth it for $$$ up to you.

 

[ervin192]

Well I dont participate in debating what improvements other cables can make, now I'm only interested in amending the weak points of the stock ones. I guess for me the stock ones could be improved but not replaced.

 

[ChijiroKuro]

Greetings from Spain.

Last year I used a silver wire, "Wireworld Nano Platinum Eclipse headphones" with fantastic results in detail, scene and transparency; I use that cable with Audeze LCD-2 currently. To the point: I am currently using a "Forza Noir Hybrid HPC" (XLR-4pin to Z1R) with results very similar to WireWorld and, of course, much better than the serial cable as it is like removing a thick fabric from the headphones … It is my personal impresions.
I enjoy all kinds of music with the Z1R and they are the most comfortable that have gone through my head, except for the summer since they are very hot.

Happy new year to all!!!
C.K.

 

[nc8000]

There is nothing wrong with not liking the Z1R, it certainly does not have a main stream sound sig. What rubbed me the wrong way way back was when somebody stated that any person who could like this phone was out of his mind and didn’t know how to listen.

 

[Phronesis]

There is nothing wrong with not liking the Z1R, it certainly does not have a main stream sound sig. What rubbed me the wrong way way back was when somebody stated that any person who could like this phone was out of his mind and didn’t know how to listen.

I think there can be valid reasons why some people may like the sound of a headphone and others not like it, related to differences in age, ear anatomy, listening background, genre of music, characteristics of recordings, etc. So I don't let it bother me if someone thinks one of my headphones sucks.

It can be difficult to imagine how something which sounds so clearly a certain way to us can sound so different to others, but I think that's the reality of what we're dealing with (recall the Laurel/Yanny example). I myself may have made that mistake in my assessment of the Z1R.

 

[bytor33]

I mean cables making a difference has already been debated endlessly, but to me it's something you need to use for a long time to get used to the difference, not quickly A/B'ing, so I don't think the kind of tests you're proposing are really going to solve anything. And even if it is only placebo, so what? What matters is the end result and almost everyone here that has tried the Sony Kimber or Axios with the Z1R has come to the same conclusion.

 

[TSAVJason]

I mean cables making a difference has already been debated endlessly, but to me it's something you need to use for a long time to get used to the difference, not quickly A/B'ing, so I don't think the kind of tests you're proposing are really going to solve anything. And even if it is only placebo, so what? What matters is the end result and almost everyone here that has tried the Sony Kimber or Axios with the Z1R has come to the same conclusion.

Not all but a large majority have agreed they make a very obvious difference, including the Sony Z1R designers

 

[raybies]

Not all but a large majority have agreed they make a very obvious difference, including the Sony Z1R designers

True, but lets look at what a cable would have to do in order to change:

1. Sound stage; they would need to introduce phase between the left and right... I can do this in DSP but with a cable I don't know how to delay a signal.
2. Tighten the base; this again very difficult to achieve w/ electronics, how do I increase attack and decay w/ a cable; capacitance will only act as a filter?
3. Smooth out the treble; the only issue w/ treble I have identified is super fast hi-hats, like 1/32 notes but the issue seems to be the actual note envelope and what it does to the diaphragm.

Now having said that and back on track, can anyone recommend a cheap <1.5m 1/4" cable for the Z1R? The 3m cable annoys me while using my Digitone on my (new) Buddha belly.

 

[TSAVJason]

True, but lets look at what a cable would have to do in order to change:

1. Sound stage; they would need to introduce phase between the left and right... I can do this in DSP but with a cable I don't know how to delay a signal.
2. Tighten the base; this again very difficult to achieve w/ electronics, how do I increase attack and decay w/ a cable; capacitance will only act as a filter?
3. Smooth out the treble; the only issue w/ treble I have identified is super fast hi-hats, like 1/32 notes but the issue seems to be the actual note envelope and what it does to the diaphragm.

Now having said that and back on track, can anyone recommend a cheap <1.5m 1/4" cable for the Z1R? The 3m cable annoys me while using my Digitone on my (new) Buddha belly.

Who says a cable can’t help achieve better preformance in any of those categories you’ve listed? Truth is, if you can’t tell a difference than I would’nt suggest you endeavor into it other than for the purposes of accommodating a different configuration. When our customers ask ilia to demonstrate the cables of course we do. There are a few that don’t hear the differences but far more do.

 

[cho8]

I’ve tried and bought lots of different cables. Some have had a quite noticeable effect and some have only had a minor difference but with the first set of aftermarket cables I tried, I tested them being skeptical about cables making any difference as I had only started out exploring head/earphones. I noticed a big difference from the stock cable being used straight away. So does this take away any placebo effects if I went in expecting not to hear any difference?

Anyway, I’ve just received my Z1R’s. Not quite disappointed but was expecting them to sound like the ones I tried at canjam London a year or so ago. Doesn’t have the wide soundstage and vocals appear to be slightly muffled or in the background. The first pair had the Sony kimber cables and sounded amazing. So much so I’ve only considered getting them and no other headphones as I had everything I felt I needed(Until a recent house fire meant they all went in one go). Now considering getting the axios even though it’s expensive as it looks like they can be ordered with 2.5 balanced and I’m running the Z1 out of a Questyle qp2r

 

[TSAVJason]

I’ve tried and bought lots of different cables. Some have had a quite noticeable effect and some have only had a minor difference but with the first set of aftermarket cables I tried, I tested them being skeptical about cables making any difference as I had only started out exploring head/earphones. I noticed a big difference from the stock cable being used straight away. So does this take away any placebo effects if I went in expecting not to hear any difference?

Anyway, I’ve just received my Z1R’s. Not quite disappointed but was expecting them to sound like the ones I tried at canjam London a year or so ago. Doesn’t have the wide soundstage and vocals appear to be slightly muffled or in the background. The first pair had the Sony kimber cables and sounded amazing. So much so I’ve only considered getting them and no other headphones as I had everything I felt I needed(Until a recent house fire meant they all went in one go). Now considering getting the axios even though it’s expensive as it looks like they can be ordered with 2.5 balanced and I’m running the Z1 out of a Questyle qp2r

It’s not always easy but I’d suggest if you give it time you’ll hear them voice much better. Don’t give up on them yet! It’s too soon if you just got them, they’re still probably pretty tight