[Phronesis]

Simple as that!
Based on how your feedback i would recommend the HD820's or Focal Utopias!

HD820 may be a good fit. I spent a lot of time comparing the Utopia and Clear, and wound up slightly preferring the Clear (independent of the price difference).

 

[21qz]

HD820 may be a good fit. I spent a lot of time comparing the Utopia and Clear, and wound up slightly preferring the Clear (independent of the price difference).

Sorry I didn’t mean to say utopia, but Audeze LCD-XC, if closed back.

 

[Slim1970]

@Phronesis have you tried the LCD-2 closed back's? I have them and the Z1R's. Completely different sound signatures. But the LCD-2CB's seem to be tuned for a more neutral sound.

 

[raybies]

I wouldn't be interested in the Z1R at even $250

I hope this doesn't come across as ageist or offensive to anyone, but I wouldn't recommend this HP to an audience >55yo, bcos as much as I hate the Sennhisser HD800 sound signature, most people over 55 will dislike the Z1R; they just play to a younger type of hearing.
I remember my uncle being less than impressed w/ my impressions of his uber setup, but it just sounded flat, boring and tiny... for something that cost more than a car.
me: where's the sub uncle.
uncle: this is not a home theater system, leave now.

 

[Redcarmoose]

This thread is a perfect example of the two signatures loved at Head-Fi. And this is nothing new, it’s been going on forever. One camp is into the more treble-centric resolving HD800 sound and others like warmer lush musical responses.

Still even with the canyon of difference between the two signatures there can be slight variations braught about by source, amp and cables which can tailor the tone closer to what is subjectivity liked.

Still with that in mind there is and will always be two signatures. It’s safe to say no one is wrong or right, no one is honest or dishonest in their opinions. Some like Stax, and k701s and HD800s and will never find what some of us admire in the Z1R.

 

[nc8000]

I hope this doesn't come across as ageist or offensive to anyone, but I wouldn't recommend this HP to an audience >55yo, bcos as much as I hate the Sennhisser HD800 sound signature, most people over 55 will dislike the Z1R; they just play to a younger type of hearing.
I remember my uncle being less than impressed w/ my impressions of his uber setup, but it just sounded flat, boring and tiny... for something that cost more than a car.
me: where's the sub uncle.
uncle: this is not a home theater system, leave now.

I’m 56 and love the Z1R

 

[Redcarmoose]

It took me a while to really like the Z1R. It is safe to say it’s very different than most headphones. Also your going to find many have had good luck after burn-in. I was fine after about 25 hours of burn-in and four days of intermittent listening. Somehow everything came together, probably 10% physical burn-in and 90% mentally getting used to the signature. And..............that’s using the TA amp, Kimber cable and Sony Z1 as file source.

And...that is someone who typically likes warmer signatures.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I’m 56 and love the Z1R

56 here too.

 

[cpetrillo]

It took me a while to really like the Z1R. It is safe to say it’s very different than most headphones. Also your going to find many have had good luck after burn-in. I was fine after about 25 hours of burn-in and four days of intermittent listening. Somehow everything came together, probably 10% physical burn-in and 90% mentally getting used to the signature. And..............that’s using the TA amp, Kimber cable and Sony Z1 as file source.

And...that is someone who typically likes warmer signatures.

I agree with this. I was worried about the sound at first but after 50 hours I was much happier. I was using my TA amp which was also new so whether it was physical or mental breakin, or both, I was hearing an improvement that to me was substantial. Later I changed to Silver Dragon cable and I couldn't be happier now. BTW I am 63.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I agree with this. I was worried about the sound at first but after 50 hours I was much happier. I was using my TA amp which was also new so whether it was physical or mental breakin, or both, I was hearing an improvement that to me was substantial. Later I changed to Silver Dragon cable and I couldn't be happier now. BTW I am 63.

I did 9 days of continuous burn-in with the TA, and it became slightly smoother than the smoothness it is.

 

[Bern2]

59 here. I rotate the Z1R with the HD800 (EQ'd with Sonarworks) and the AQ Nighthawk.

 

[beowulf]

59 here. I rotate the Z1R with the HD800 (EQ'd with Sonarworks) and the AQ Nighthawk.

Z1R+HD800 remains my favorite prescription. Even after trying many $+ more. And that's the original [cheaper] 800, not the 800S (had it too, sold it and kept the 800)

These two are just an awesome combo. Both imperfect, both uniquely complementing each other perfectly. Probably the two cans I'll never sell. Said that before and broke it, but it's very very rare

Not sure I agree with the Z1R age comment tho. They're good at any age and the flaws are audible at any age.

I'd sooner say that about the 800, given the particularly zingy bright tonality that might sound too harsh to young ears able to pick up higher Hz sandpaper grain (not just the 6 kHz spike but overall) - still, love the 800. Pretty old by now and still crushing so many modern "alternatives".

These two are just a great duo complementing each other in multiple ways, including the obvious (overall tonality and passive isolation).

 

[sarnhelen]

Well, we're a crumbly bunch, but unsurprising given the cost of these phones – I'm 65, and chose them unhesitatingly in a comparison with the Utopias, both using Kimber cables and fed from the same amp at an audio fair (Axpona in Chicago). I may have mentioned this before, but changing from a Mytek Brooklyn to the TA-ZH1ES was a big step up. I would say these are the only phones I need, but reason not the need – I was wanting some open-backs and have ordered the ZMF Vérités, reported also to have a warm and musical signature. Shall share a comparison after the ZMFs are delivered...

 

[329161]

Hopefully, we can be honest in this thread about our impressions of the Z1R?

Day 2 of auditioning them isn't going well at all, and the problems evident from the first hours of listening to them are even more evident now. FR and other measurements suggest that they're poorly designed, and listening confirms it. The bass is bloated and boomy and intrudes into the mids. The highs are a mess, with a lack of energy and realism for cymbals, horns, and some vocals, combined with an unwelcome treble peak around 10 kHz. The dip in the lower highs makes some things sound more distant, which is probably why the Z1R seems to have a decent image size. The overall effect is an incoherent tonal balance which substantially impacts enjoyment of the music.

Across the vast majority of tracks I've tried, the Meze 99 Classics are far superior at $300, and even the M40X at $100 is usually significantly better. It's a rare track where the Z1R beats those two - typically a flawed recording where the flaws in the Z1R tend to conterbalance the flaws in the recording. And comparing with the HD800S? Fuggedaboutit, the HD800S is light years beyond the Z1R.

Right now, I wouldn't be interested in the Z1R at even $250, because it's a relatively rare track that doesn't reveal its flaws. I'll give it a few more days, but I'll very surprised if I do an about face and wind up liking them with more listening. I can't see how cables can fix these flaws, and I don't think it's reasonable to ask my ears/brain to adapt to such a deficient tonal balance.

The z1,r is a pretty niche headphone sq wise. It isn't what I would call neutral at all. The 99s are more neutral or accurate but can't compete with the Sony on resolution or refinement . I would take the z1r any day. It's an acquired taste. The z1r signature is done very well with frequencies clearly delineated. Yes it's a niche headphone with character in the same way the th900 is. Extremely enjoyable.

 

[329161]

I agree on the "Clear" choice here. I think the 820 and Utopia are sorely overpriced.

HD820 may be a good fit. I spent a lot of time comparing the Utopia and Clear, and wound up slightly preferring the Clear (independent of the price difference).