[Witcher]

I take it I am boring you folks or something? I meant well. I honestly think these are the real deal. Just my opinion and of course subjective. This is the first time I actually did not considerably prefer $105,000 loudspeakers. I mean these are on some stuff. Good stuff. I love them and you can't have mine! I always was down with headphones but to be honest loudspeakers past a certain level just demolish headphones but these for the first time have me thinking differently. Of course it is just my taste. I stumbled upon them. I fully expected to be returning them. Boy was I wrong. Of course what I think matters to no one. Nor should anyone else's interpretations. If you are serious about buying a piece of high end audio gear either you are prepared to lose $$$, you bought with a full return policy or you listened somewhere. On that note can jams are perfect for this type of thing and very welcomed by me. To answer the question I will not be in NYC then. I will say it is amazing the stuff some people bring. Don't doubt there is an HE1 there. Things like that would never leave my residence. I am not selfish but I am realistic. Kudo's to those that bring that kind of stuff.

As I was saying I just wished they had fancied these up. My only very minor gripe that has nothing to do with sound. I would not care if they were in the $3k or even $4k range then. They were smart though they allowed more sales. TBH, I fully appreciate even $2,400 is a lot to many people. Then you need a dac and amp.

I would like to mention one thing. I plug serious headphones into no dac. I do not care what it is, it is a dac and a headamp was thrown on because it is the norm. My high end amps slaughter the Dave and QX-5 Twenty upstairs. On the lower level there is a MSB select but I spend most of my time upstairs now. So I am saying to do any high end headphones right you should have a dac and a amp. Thus I understand it could actually be unaffordable for many people. I appreciate that. I think you can still enjoy them but unfortunately not realize the full potential otherwise I remember when Benchmark said their amp in the dac1 was so incredible. It did not hold a candle to high end amps. Some that really dissed these hard might be their setup. Or they just did not like them which is fine with me. I think this pair might be a love or hate. So fully understandable. Coming the last year or so with mainly grados I was really surprised I liked them so much in fact.

Oh, I do kind of wonder what the dac/amp is like. Sony ES goes in cycles. Sometimes it is featherweight other times Sumo. The SCD-1 might be the greatest SACD player ever made. Even the 999ES was serious stuff.

I have to say Sony stuff pairs very well with Sony stuff. The PHA-3 and WM1A I use separately (one for PC, one for portable) work very well with the Z1R, since both sounds are practically identical. the warmth of the Z1R works fantastically with the SQ of the DAC/Amp and player. I've heard that the performance is even better when using their TOTL TAZH1ES DAC/Amp.

P.S. I've also found the Z1R to work better for my tastes with a Ag OCC cable rather than full copper.

 

[Lemieux66]

I've been loving my Z1R since I got them, but I've been struggling to find the right amp/dac for them. Last week I purchased a Naim DAC V1, and I am in heaven. The combination of that classic "NAIM sound" and the rich sounding Sony's, is magic. The bass of my headphones has taken on a much more authoritative and crisp sound...tighter and deeper than before. The midrange is a little more clear, and the high's are super detailed without being too strident. It's really killer combination!

I've mainly used my Z1R with my WM1A, but I've had a few listens with my Leben CS300XS when watching movies. I've used the Leben/Sony combo a few times for music and it was great but I'm finding the WM1A is more convenient as I can move round the house whilst listening.

I'd like a fixed amp like the ZH1ES or PHA-2A for use with my laptop but wonder if it will be worth it as I like the WM1A so much. Maybe the WM1Z is the answer for me?

 

[pietcux]

I've been loving my Z1R since I got them, but I've been struggling to find the right amp/dac for them. Last week I purchased a Naim DAC V1, and I am in heaven. The combination of that classic "NAIM sound" and the rich sounding Sony's, is magic. The bass of my headphones has taken on a much more authoritative and crisp sound...tighter and deeper than before. The midrange is a little more clear, and the high's are super detailed without being too strident. It's really killer combination!

Nice device from NAIM looks like a killer dac. Glad you like it. The price is around 1900€ in Germany.

 

[pietcux]

I've mainly used my Z1R with my WM1A, but I've had a few listens with my Leben CS300XS when watching movies. I've used the Leben/Sony combo a few times for music and it was great but I'm finding the WM1A is more convenient as I can move round the house whilst listening.

I'd like a fixed amp like the ZH1ES or PHA-2A for use with my laptop but wonder if it will be worth it as I like the WM1A so much. Maybe the WM1Z is the answer for me?

I also use the WM1A with the Z1r. The WM1Z is warmer sounding and much heavier. There a still people on the WM1A/Z thread waiting for a new firmware that shall give us an USB dac functionality on the WM1A/Z. Maybe you just wait.

 

[music_man]

I think I like these because they are very different than what I am used to. Exacting headphones. to me they just disappear and you hear some music. they do not have any incredible clarity. they are just so easy on the ears. I am only bringing this up because I was a critic of you know who. I will say if I was expecting the hd800s I would also be very sorely disappointed. The thing is just compare apples and apples. there is room for a completely different type of experience and personally right now I love it. it is so different to me I can just relax and not concentrate on the music so hard. if that makes them junk, well in the ears of someone looking for a technical headphone yes they would be absolute junk. that is simply not their forte. that is why I always say you must listen or have a return policy. some will like these some will hate these. I am here to say these are very different than the usual characters around here. if you like them is up to you. you also have every right to say "you think" they are good or suck. I would not say either holds true for absolutely everyone universally because that simply is not true. I mean these are not exactly $5 ibuds but they are much different than what most people buying $3,000 headphones might expect. I do not know at this point if I wil pick up the many technical headphones around here. neither is right or wrong. these are just a vast departure from the norm in this arena. Currently I really appreciate them . However I do reserve the right to move on. That is my right and anyone's. Right now to me these are a game changer. If anyone else feels the same way is solely up to the. You cannot say this is not subjective. Some things it is a given that they are not high fidelity and often sub $30. This is not exactly the case here. They are just different. They will appeal to some and not to others. So be it. I am fine with that. I would not tell anyone what they must like or dislike however. That is not my roll, or anyone's for that matter. It is completely up to you whatever it may be you want to listen to. Even sub $30 stuff. I like these but I do not force my opinion on anyone. You must choose for yourself.

I will say add the Axios AG,for $5k headphones and these get that much better. I personally "in my opinion" feel the cable is a great investment for them.

Sony's Amp may jive with these but I have a feeling you can do better with a separate dac and amp once $35,000+ is invested. So in that case the Sony amp has a rightful place as well. I just do not find that to be a very high end unit but it is fine. ES goes in waves. Some years they go crazy overbuilding stuff others they just put out good solid stuff worth what it costs. Which is the case with the current ES dac/amp. As well as these headphones not fashioning wood cups etc. but to me they hit a sound I like right on the dot. They will scale up to better electronics though if you want to spend the numbers I just mentioned. Below that, yes get the Sony to go with them. It should prove better with them perhaps than other amps in it's price range. Again that is just my opinion. I did in fact plug in my broken headphones at a shop. I am telling you though what is beating it upstairs here is an Ayre QX-5 Twenty and Cullen GCHA with further Cullen mods. So you do the math. Plus their is Odin2 connecting it. Now, the sony becomes a good value. It was fine just not at that level but give the poor thing a break.

One thing that is nice is the Z!R and Axios(hopefully broken together) break in just 50 hours IMO. I would give 150 hours for good sake though. Not the 5,000 hours flagship grado's honestly take. So it takes like a weekend to break them which is very nice. As with any headphones these especially you may be tempted to blast them. Don't. You will either quickly or instantly destroy them. This amp can put out 35WPC and I am currently measuring .797W at my listening level. I am not surebut perhaps the guy here that tore the diaphragm blasted them? Unless he says, I am not sure how that occurred. The 70mm is in fact more fragile than a one piece 40,50mm. I know this as an Engineer from an Engineering standpoint.

Anyways I like these a lot and they scale up very nicely too. If you do or do not is entirely up to you and I do not judge anyone on either opinion. Even you know who.

 

[buzzlulu]

Music_man

Did you listen to the other two Axios cables? I had both the all copper and the copper/silver hybrid. On a previous post I stated my opinion that the hybrid copper/silver IMHO changed the Z1's into something they were not. I felt they emasculated them. As such I ended up with the all copper version.

With regards to source and amp I agree. I am primarily a two channel user and my system is a combination of Naim and Linn. As such the philosophy is always - SOURCE FIRST.
Feed the Z1R's with a Linn Klimax DS and then you can see what they are capable of!

That said they are not too bad out of a garden variety WM1Z. Several people think the match is not that good however I vehemently disagree. It accurately portrays what Sony set out to do with this new round of product

 

[nordkapp]

Sony's Amp may jive with these but I have a feeling you can do better with a separate dac and amp once $35,000+ is invested

What are you referring to for $35,000? Just curious......

 

[fullranger]

I think he’s serious about $35,000+.
Some people can go hard and heavy with this stuff.

 

[music_man]

buzz, unfortunately not. I just figured since they are on the bass end silver was going to be the best. That is a shame. I could always get it but I am not by any means unhappy with this. the funny thing silver over copper is usually inexpensive industrial cable. I hope they use something better regardless of sound for the money.

nord, I was just saying what they can scale up to. I said what I am feeding them with above and a hundred times before. I understand not everyone can do that and that is okay. that is why I was recommending their ES amp/dac now. back to buzz, I have always loved that series of linn but only had one in like 1996. it was a universal disc player and it was exceptionally nice. I rebuilt my lp-12 and with sme v it can hang with some pretty big boys. linn makes good stuff. I would liken them to ayre or naim. classics.

nord I was not trying to be a smart azz I was just telling the truth. if you feed them nice they will be very happy and reward you. some people that do not like them may even change their minds when fed like that. again, I understand that is pretty up there. I did not even try the msb select on the lower level of the building because their is no headamp and not good to move it.

 

[nordkapp]

buzz, unfortunately not. I just figured since they are on the bass end silver was going to be the best. That is a shame. I could always get it but I am not by any means unhappy with this. the funny thing silver over copper is usually inexpensive industrial cable. I hope they use something better regardless of sound for the money.

nord, I was just saying what they can scale up to. I said what I am feeding them with above and a hundred times before. I understand not everyone can do that and that is okay. that is why I was recommending their ES amp/dac now. back to buzz, I have always loved that series of linn but only had one in like 1996. it was a universal disc player and it was exceptionally nice. I rebuilt my lp-12 and with sme v it can hang with some pretty big boys. linn makes good stuff. I would liken them to ayre or naim. classics.

nord I was not trying to be a smart azz I was just telling the truth. if you feed them nice they will be very happy and reward you. some people that do not like them may even change their minds when fed like that. again, I understand that is pretty up there. I did not even try the msb select on the lower level of the building because their is no headamp and not good to move it.

No, I am in total agreement with you. These things really require decent stuff upstream. I am really satisfied with the sound I'm getting through them.

 

[music_man]

Thank you. It is really serious with these. Some are like this but not most. some might not agree but I feel just $3,000 of electronics maxes out Grado. If you can do it these things will just take the fanciest electronics you throw at them. With about $6,000 of gear I first figured would suit them They were very nice. Switched out with better stuff and it was a pretty large difference. I honestly did not expect that. I mean like the 010 Would have been fine with the 6 grand rig. I do not know if Sony intended that or it just happened.

 

[fullranger]

Sounds legit to me. Awesome stuff makes awesome stuff better.
If you have super gear to pair up with, it should come out the other end incredible.
Can’t complain about somebody having it all in one place.
Jealous? -maybe. But we all have different economies, and adjacent hobbies that may limit our HP goals.
I like to hear about expensive setups myself because, one day, I may be able to divest (from boats), and take the plunge.
Enjoy, and give us all something to dream about. That’s probably the main point around here...

 

[nordkapp]

and adjacent hobbies that may limit our HP goals.

Yeah, like trying to retire one day........

 

[fullranger]

Pure head-fi!
That’s the best thing I didn’t post on this site!
Beautiful reply!
For that, I am jealous.
For the rest of you, enjoy Z1R-ville.

 

[buzzlulu]

now. back to buzz, I have always loved that series of linn but only had one in like 1996. it was a universal disc player and it was exceptionally nice. I rebuilt my lp-12 and with sme v it can hang with some pretty big boys. linn makes good stuff. I would liken them to ayre or naim. classics.
.

Klimax series - nothing is better. I have a full Klimax Spec LP12 (with the exception of a Naim Aro).

"Hang with some pretty big boys"

No - a Klimax LP12 walks all over them!