[up late]

then i obviously misunderstood your post. sorry about that.

 

[Sonic Defender]

describing the z1r's sound signature as bass heavy is a not a criticism. take a look at any fr chart and you will see that that the z1r's bass is emphasised relative to the rest of the frequency range. it's really no different to characterising a grado as bright because of its prominent treble. making that observation about the z1r doesn't automatically make you a detractor. you can still enjoy its sound signature for what it is as i did.

I know mate, and when I said detractor in an early post, it wasn't in reference to you at all, more the haters who seem to delight in pointing out that the Z1R isn't perfect (as if anything is). Heck the mighty Utopia has seen it's glory days and you are now far more often reading people admit that it has weaknesses where at first you would swear the divine powers had authored that sound signature and nothing on earth could ever be better. Everything comes back to earth. I still feel the Z1R is a wonderful signature and my point was that for some people when they read bass heavy they may not recognize that even when a signature is bass emphasized, which clearly the Z1R is, it can be articulate and tuneful bass nonetheless and I believe that is the case with the Z1R. So no, I didn't take umbrage at all with your post.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I was in agreement with you. Yes, the R10 was not bass heavy in any way. And I’m not able to comment on mid-eighties Sony sound either as I just didn’t get to hear any Sony headphones from then.

My post was directed at krayzie.

As with speculation that the mid-eighties Sony house sound was placed into all the eighties headphones and even into the R-10.

My very first headphone was a Sony 80s model. I can remember getting rather wasted and spending hour upon hour listening to records (and later on CDs) through those headphones. I would love to hear them today, but my memory of them is very favourable and they certainly wouldn't have been upper-tier back in the day.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Yes!!!



@https://www.head-fi.org/members/krayzie.2086/

I’m pretty sure you never heard the R-10 with your above statement?
The R-10s were pretty flat and modestly mid-forward animals.IMHO. They may have just been extremely flat. Like the most flat ever, so they sounded slighly mid-forward to my ears as a result.

Not to argue.........but.......I don’t hear the Z1R having a complete love affair with the midrange? To tell you the truth, I am at a loss to fully explain what the Z1R ......IS? At times male vocals are taking a back seat in the mix, though yesterday Robert Smith and “The Cure” had what sounded like normal male vocals listening out of the 1Z with firmware 2.0 and high output enabled. So in reality.............I’m probably just as confused as I think you are.

But I do know what I like..........and after all these years........I’m smitten with this headphone........whatever it is?

Cheers!

The Z1R has a difficult to quantify quality that I think is a mix of a very interesting and competent sound stage and layering ability combined with some powerful, but well integrated and tuneful bass. With highs rolled back enough it makes for a wonderful and eminently listenable signature. Of course you will find music that shows up where the Z1R won't be as well tuned for, all signatures as you well know, have to make compromises to meet the overall signature goal. That said, there is music that the Z1R is simply brilliant with and my feeling is that it does quite a bit right, some things brilliantly, and nothing really poorly. Subjective of course as I know some people will call it dull and bloated, but for me it is anything but. Different horses for courses as they say.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I admit it, I was one of those that got detracted and conflicted. How could I enjoy something that some people hated. But at the end I realized that I really had a lot of fun. This is the third pair I owned and finally made piece with my ears, and no plans of selling them anytime soon.

Awesome to hear, and sometimes that is how it happens right? Looking for a relationship analogy sometimes we fall hard and fast for a woman, others just seem to sneak up on us and suddenly you realize how darn attracted to them you really are. It is all about the enjoyment as they say and I am very glad that the Z1R is giving you that joy. After all, what else is this crazy hobby about other than the joy of wonderful audio reproduction that allows us to be part of the music we love so much.

 

[Redcarmoose]

My very first headphone was a Sony 80s model. I can remember getting rather wasted and spending hour upon hour listening to records (and later on CDs) through those headphones. I would love to hear them today, but my memory of them is very favourable and they certainly wouldn't have been upper-tier back in the day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_MDR-V6

I did have the mid-eighties MDR-V6 in the mid-eighties. But I used them as recording monitors. Don’t think they qualify as examples of the Sony Audiophile House Sound?

I like your post about the Z1R being quite a bit right. Maybe too it’s a nice realization for folks who will finally arrive at knowing there is no perfect headphone........so we just roll with it, as long as it does a lot right.

 

[up late]

I know mate, and when I said detractor in an early post, it wasn't in reference to you at all, more the haters who seem to delight in pointing out that the Z1R isn't perfect (as if anything is). Heck the mighty Utopia has seen it's glory days and you are now far more often reading people admit that it has weaknesses where at first you would swear the divine powers had authored that sound signature and nothing on earth could ever be better. Everything comes back to earth. I still feel the Z1R is a wonderful signature and my point was that for some people when they read bass heavy they may not recognize that even when a signature is bass emphasized, which clearly the Z1R is, it can be articulate and tuneful bass nonetheless and I believe that is the case with the Z1R. So no, I didn't take umbrage at all with your post.

i didn't think it was, but i felt compelled to point out that characterising the z1r as "bass heavy" isn't necessarily a criticism of it and nor should it always be construed as such

 

[Sonic Defender]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_MDR-V6



I like your post about the Z1R being quite a bit right. Maybe too it’s a nice realization for folks who will finally arrive at knowing there is no perfect headphone........so we just roll with it, as long as it does a lot right.

Amen, gave up expecting perfection long, long ago. I settle for whatever I find that I like and I try not to focus on what they aren't, instead being a glass half full type of person (most of the time) I focus on what they are. Keeps me sane.

 

[krayzie]

Yes!!!



@https://www.head-fi.org/members/krayzie.2086/

I’m pretty sure you never heard the R-10 with your above statement?
The R-10s were pretty flat and modestly mid-forward animals.IMHO. They may have just been extremely flat. Like the most flat ever, so they sounded slighly mid-forward to my ears as a result.

Not to argue.........but.......I don’t hear the Z1R having a complete love affair with the midrange? To tell you the truth, I am at a loss to fully explain what the Z1R ......IS? At times male vocals are taking a back seat in the mix, though yesterday Robert Smith and “The Cure” had what sounded like normal male vocals listening out of the 1Z with firmware 2.0 and high output enabled. So in reality.............I’m probably just as confused as I think you are.

But I do know what I like..........and after all these years........I’m smitten with this headphone........whatever it is?

Cheers!

Yes I've never heard of the R10 or CD3000 for that matter but have been just been reading about it for over a decade here. I'm pretty sure the so-called Sony house sound started to shift around that time when they started introducing bio-cellulose and 1-bit DACs. Slight hint with the amorphous diamond D77 Eggos and then just crossed a threshold with the bio-cellulose E888 which everybody universally hated by the mid 90s due to no bass kick (kinda like how the Z1R seemed to have touched a nerve as it sounded like nothing as of late). The current CD900ST also sounds nothing like the 80's stuff that bear the same look on the outside, the sound is completely flat (which I guess is how it should be as a pro monitor).

Consequently Aiwa (which Sony owned 51% of at the time) experienced a similar shift in sound signature from the mid to late 80's (HP-V9 and HP-V99) to 1990 (HP-D9).

I think what people call "bass-heavy" probably means bass that has a "kick" to it but still well rounded, as opposed to this Beats stuff of today which is terrible like those DJs that get hired for weddings and parties.

Yes the first day I got the Z1R I found the vocals recessed with certain songs, and honestly didn't like that at first and almost ready to go back to the Z7. Then I found that interview video with the designer and he outright stated that they didn't try to sort through the positioning of various sounds, but instead how the sounds should be placed against each other? I bought mine used from Japan on eBay but I'm already finding it smoothing out even more after many hours of use, the slight sibilant is almost gone. It's probably still burning in (or my brain is lol).

 

[krayzie]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_MDR-V6

I did have the mid-eighties MDR-V6 in the mid-eighties. But I used them as recording monitors. Don’t think they qualify as examples of the Sony Audiophile House Sound?

My first pair of headphones was the MDR-V7 that my old man bought back in 1988 when we were still living in HK mainly for night time listening to not bother the neighbors. IIRC the sound wasn't muffled like the 7506 I later got a chance to hear after coming to Canada. I never bought the V6 since I already had the V7.

The top models back in the day came with Hitachi LC-OFC cables (Sony was also using it in their ES components) and it smoothed out the overall sound compare to lesser models. Basically similar to replacing the stock cables with their Kimber option these days.

 

[tenedosian]

The performance of Z1R is highly dependent on the source.

If you match it with a portable player having let's say some "boost" in the treble section of it's frequency response, then it is possible to give you a headache with a mediocre sonic performance.

However, if you feed these giant 70 mm drivers with some nice power from a desktop source with a somewhat linear frequency response, then Z1R will pay back what you give.

Even $100 amps like Objective2 feed Z1R more than satisfactorily.

(Btw, I'm letting go mine for 1070 Euros. Check out my threads if you're interested.)

 

[Redcarmoose]

The performance of Z1R is highly dependent on the source.

If you match it with a portable player having let's say some "boost" in the treble section of it's frequency response, then it is possible to give you a headache with a mediocre sonic performance.

However, if you feed these giant 70 mm drivers with some nice power from a desktop source with a somewhat linear frequency response, then Z1R will pay back what you give.

Even $100 amps like Objective2 feed Z1R more than satisfactorily.

(Btw, I'm letting go mine for 1070 Euros. Check out my threads if you're interested.)

It should almost go with-out saying that headphone personality is dependent on source and amplifier. Over the last ten years, I’ve always wondered how much of a headphone model was described due to....

1) Personal Taste
2) Source
3) Amplification

Now obviously some headphones are more responsive to amplifier power and damping. So due to a headphone like the Z1R as being easy to drive many think that they are going to sound the same out of every amp. Still I believe that can lead to confusion.

In fact much of the differing options at Head-Fi may occur due to listening of the exact same headphone from different equipment. Yet rarely is what’s in front questioned as the cause of why members end up with different realizations of a particular headphone.

This whole concept seems rudimentary.......though I believe the cause of confusion. After years, then a headphone may earn the reputation of being amp dependent, like the HD800; still that’s only after much discussion before the realization is arrived at.

And even in this thread...... it can be thoughtfuly assumed that interpretation of the Z1R differs due to front end equipment choices.

All review opinions about a headphone..........should be taken with a grain of salt anyways, but these subjective ideas become even farther from reality due to source and amping differences. It just goes the extra step in the end to place a confusing sound signature (the Z1R) in an even more esoteric and confusing light.

But then you get a headphone like the Z1R with the endless possibilities of DAC/Amp choices.............. and it makes it’s own undefinable qualities even that much harder to nail down. Yes?

In my humble and non-experienced opinion the Z1R was actually designed to be powered only with the TA amplifier. The headphone issues are still there with the TA, but it seems that style of amplification and source helps the Z1R to do even more stuff right.


As it may be interpreted as the Z1R as having some “muddiness” in the lower response; I found the DAC/Amp in the TA to add some style of correction.


Also it seems that mental brain-burn in is beyond a doubt a style of remedy allowing a level of clarity to magically arrive after hours of listening. In all my years of headphones, I’ve never come across a different headphone/enigma as the Z1R; which seemed to come into place after 2 days of listening!

Normally added damping factor adds about 1 kHz of extra bass and creates the perception of way more bass response. With harder to drive headphones we simply end up with a more controlled bass response which in perception sounds like more bass, when in fact it’s simply clearer bass. In fact with other headphones this clearer bass seems to add the needed bass. I would like to suggest that here with the Z1R, the added damping factor actually cleans-up our bass responce. Just another example of trying more equipment gets us a better understanding of the animal.

In ending........I would like to suggest that there is a possibility that the correct matched amplification and source components also add a style of lower frequency response that goes one step farther to clean-up and rectify some known and discussed response issues.

As discussed, no headphone is perfect, but it’s the complete summary of the equipment personalities which create the sound in the end.

 

[buzzlulu]

I also find the 1Z to match well with the headphone.
The 1Z is also sublime with the Utopia

** in my case both headphones using Kimber Axios cable

 

[raybies]

As it may be interpreted as the Z1R as having some “muddiness” in the lower response

You're the first to write this, I think Z1R has excellent low response, in fact it's excellent until 8k~10khz then it adds some coloration which can be good or bad... mostly bad with my music and it's hard to EQ out.

 

[Redcarmoose]

You're the first to write this, I think Z1R has excellent low response, in fact it's excellent until 8k~10khz then it adds some coloration which can be good or bad... mostly bad with my music and it's hard to EQ out.

No, I have not found it, just read folks interpreting it as so. My point is it may not be the headphones fault but the union combination of specific headphone and amp?