[acs236]

I listened to the PS-1s and R-10s at the Ohio meet, but only for a few minutes each. I thought they were both excellent. I first heard the PS-1s with flat pads and thougth the bass was overpowering. Switching to the bowl pads quickly solved that problem. I would have thought the PS-1s were hands-down the best headphones I have ever heard. Hearing the R10s made me temper that statement. Which one is better? I'd have to listen more to settle on that. I am more used to the overall balance of the R10s because, at the time, I had been listening to the CD3000 more often than any other headphone. I'm not a bass head at all (I probably tilt in the opposite direction), and I like the overall bass balance of the R10s. If the R10s were $1500 I'd be a lot more tempted, but, given their price, I can resist.

 

[chumley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbhifi Markl- Thank you, in particular, for you CONSTRUCTIVE comments. This is what I was looking for. A few points of clarification- The R10 bass has- TOO MUCH and TOO LITTLE bass- the mid/upper bass seemed bloated, loose and ill defined- this is unacceptable in a $4000 / $2500 street price headphone! The lowest bass (obviously NO HEADPHONE can reproduce 20hz. bass) was simply absent- compared to the 650. I can't speak for the 600s, but the 650s are absolutely NOT BASS HEAVY!! They are one of the few cans that have reasonably deep, accurate bass response. I didn't hear the more "articulate" bass you noted in the R10- I heard just the opposite- innarticulate, bloated bass. If flat frequency response is DULL to you, so be it. IMO- the rational approach is to find components (includung cans) that have flat, extended frequency response. If that's too DULL for you, flavor to your tastes with amp, tubes, wire selections. Starting with an innacurate transducer (which I DON'T THINK THE R10 IS- just impaired in the bass) and building you high-end system around it is a flawed approach. Those of you who feel the R10 is in another league in comparison to the 650s-great! Now if you really want to contribute something constructive, other than shallow one line bashes of the 650s, to this thread- Explain, in specific detail, the various strengths of your beloved R10s.

I agree... good source/amp/cable/HD650 combos, as has been covered here many times, supplies, in spades, the NO 'veil', flat response signal that I happen to love... OTOH, the best antidote to my balanced Senn setups is listening to music through my PS-1s from the L3 modded MH CD-25 and the Gilmore Lite w/PS upgrade...

Among several other problems with my old R10s' output was its bass/midbass... which, IMO, was not even in the same league as listening to music through my HD650s/4G iPod Line Out/TAH...which is why my ex-wife owns them now...

 

[chumley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfrenchman27 So, which one did you enjoy more: the R10s or the HD650s? You sound like some kind of computer instead of a human-being who listens to and enjoys music.

This is just the kind of thing we need MORE of- silly posts decorated with lame insults, rather than posting anything constructive. Grinnell's got a great writing program, CF- you'd do well to exploit it more often...

The enjoyment of music may include the exultation of clarity, accuracy, and other enjoyable factors that are found in both the R10s and the HD650s- just not in equal amounts...

 

[digitalbill]

I've been lucky enough to own a pair of R10's for about the past month and also have a pair of PS-1's. The "cult status" of the R10 is likely due to its exclusivity and cost. Is it worth the price? If folks are willing to plunk down $3,000+ for it, probably so. The R10 and PS-1 are polar opposites in the headphone world. I think the R10 has the most amazing soundstage and detail that I've ever heard. It is the perfect can for jazz and classical music. The bass is there and it's deep and well defined, but it's recessed in comparison to its beautiful mid's and high's. It seems to be very difficult to build a good closed headphone and the R10 is quite possibly the best closed design ever. The PS-1 has amazingly potent, well-defined bass. I find the top-end to be a little recessed and it certainly doesn't possess the incredible detail or soundstage of the R10. The PS-1 is my choice for Rock and Blues. Nothing touches it when you want a lot of punch - it's great fun. I'm not sure that the perfect headphone exists for all musical tastes. If I had to listen to just one can though it would probably be the R10.

 

[greenhorn]

Of course it's a question of taste and choice. Personally I prefer the Grado PS1.

I can't agree with the "the R10 belongs to a different class thing".

It does NOT belong to a different class at all, if the sound quality, not the price, is the criteria.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncan If the RS1 falls into that same category, then I guess I am just someone who likes boomy bass Seriously though, the RS1s through this ANT amp I have here are something pretty special in the bass department, undoubtedly not top flight by any means, but to say that this is boomy... give me boomy any day of the week, at least it sounds - partway convincing

I heard that ANT amp and it is pretty good, so I would like to hear the RS-1 in order to form a complete opinion, about the whole Grado sound. I know that the PS-1 and HP-1000 resemble more the old days of the Joe era, IMO I would like them with more sparkle in the highs, they sounded too bored to my taste.
The RS-1 according to some is a different sound, so maybe this one will do it better for me in the Grado line, if it has more extended highs, but comfort will still be a big issue for me....

I still feel that non of them belongs on the same class as the R-10 at all, IMO not even close, but this is just my extrictly personal opinion....the R-10 has a magic in its sound, that non of the headphones I have heard to the date has....I don't care which is more accurate or flat or whatever, the R-10 has a seductive unique sound.....

 

[S_Dedalus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn Of course it's a question of taste and choice. Personally I prefer the Grado PS1. I can't agree with the "the R10 belongs to a different class thing". It does NOT belong to a different class at all, if the sound quality, not the price, is the criteria.

They are in a different class, but I think it's more of an issue of flavor than of quality. For me, the Grado flavor works best.

 

[greenhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Dedalus They are in a different class

No.

They both are in the R10 - K1000 - PS1 - W2002 etc. class.

 

[S_Dedalus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn No. They both are in the R10 - K1000 - PS1 - W2002 etc. class.

You ignored my post altogether.

 

[greenhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Dedalus You ignored my post altogether.

Not at all - I just quoted the part I did not agree to. I fully agree with the difference in flavor.

 

[fbhifi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WulfmanJax How much better is the Maestro than the Supra? I've only heard the Supra and have been thoroughly blown away but will probably, eventually, one day many, many years from now upgrade.

Wulfman- To my ear, with the DULL 650/Cardas combo, the Maestro had a more detailed and noticeably leaner presentation than the Supra. The Supra is richer, fuller, rounder, bloomier than the Maestro- IMO.

Sovkiller- Thanks for all your posts, 18 in all- to date. You've been the most enthusiastic supporter of the R10s of anyone who has voiced an opinion. One thing troubles me- Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe you ACTUALLY OWN R10s. Are you sure your unfailing exuberance for the R10s is firmly based in experiential reality or could it be the fond memory of a brief encounter(s) with a product that you would like to believe is the Holy Grail ?? We have all had extremely memorable initial experiences with a luxury product, a compelling person, an engrossing movie. Frequently, after we spend more time with that product, person, or watch that movie again, we aren't nearly as excited/impressed as we were- initially. This is not to say that the product is inferior, the person evil or the movie horrible- but it does go to illustrate that you generally need to spend an E-X-T-E-N-D-E-D period of time with something to TRULY KNOW it's absolute merits.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbhifi Sovkiller- Thanks for all your posts, 18 in all- to date. You've been the most enthusiastic supporter of the R10s of anyone who has voiced an opinion. One thing troubles me- Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe you ACTUALLY OWN R10s. Are you sure your unfailing exuberance for the R10s is firmly based in experiential reality or could it be the fond memory of a brief encounter(s) with a product that you would like to believe is the Holy Grail ?? We have all had extremely memorable initial experiences with a luxury product, a compelling person, an engrossing movie. Frequently, after we spend more time with that product, person, or watch that movie again, we aren't nearly as excited/impressed as we were- initially. This is not to say that the product is inferior, the person evil or the movie horrible- but it does go to illustrate that you generally need to spend an E-X-T-E-N-D-E-D period of time with something to TRULY KNOW it's absolute merits.

Actually not all of them are about the R-10...LOL...but even though, I was only expressing all of my prior posts as usual, IMHO and IMHE, short or long, it doesn't matter to me, what I feel is good, to me, is good...period...

FYI, as you may noticed, I'm not worried of what others may think of my opinions, or if my experiences are short or long, they are only that, "mine". One thing is sure, I have being here long enough and I'm a grown on person, to know when a device will do it for me, and when it will not, and FYI I can't afford the R-10, and I think that I will never own one...

...so this will leave you marging to keep on bashing my opinions all you want, I don't mind (BTW now 19 posts).

Now to the point, and I think that I will sound repetitive, the presentation of the R-10 is very similar to the CD3000, headphone that I'm very familiar with, they are two brothers, one being of course more humble in performance than the other (at a more humble price too) but actually the CD3000 is the only headphones that I have own/heard to the date, that IMO sounds similar in presentation to it, the rest, IMO, compared to it, sounded like toys, all of them IMHO fall short in comparison in one way or another, to the point that actually I will not change any of them, not even for the CD3000 (and not even with money over) The R-10 is indeed the only headphone to the date, that I prefer over the CD3000...period.

IMO if you do not like the CD3000, chances are that you will not like the R-10 neither, so it is not strange for me that the Senns lovers, or the Grado lovers will not like it, the R-10 as I have stated many times, is not similar to them in presentation, at all......Now, having an strong position regarding my preference with the CD3000, if I love the CD3000, and the R-10 does a few things better, for transitive law, what do you think???

But again you are free to believe what you like, and to think what you want, if you are happy with the setup you have that is what matters, in my personal case, after hearing the R-10, I'm not anymore, but I think that I will die like that, unfortunatelly.....

BTW I noticed that this was your thread, and I was believing that you were looking for opinions (any) and as you never stated what kind of experience were necessary to express them in here, I did mine, sorry if it was not what you were expecting to hear. What is funny, is that if someone, for any reason, does not like the R-10, and does not own them neither, and had heard them briefly, but just express that in his opinion those are not what he expected, and bla bla bla.....that opinion is accepted and maybe considered better than mine. Is not the same case but inverse???? From a simple short audion they determine that the R-10 are not this or that, and this is fine with you, right????
But if you are trying to tell me that you prefer that I do not post my opinions in your thread, that is OK with me, I got your message, I will go to any other discussion.....

The last thing I want is to bother you, nor any other member here.....LOL....I apologize if I was annoying to you....sorry.....

 

[gsferrari]

Sov - sometimes you presume too much. The R-10 is one of my favorite headphones. The CD-3000 is one of the headphones on my "waste of money" list.

I dont like the CD-3000 and I love the R10.

I assure you - they have very little in common in these aspects :-

* Cosmetically
* Sonically

Nothing alike.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari Sov - sometimes you presume too much. The R-10 is one of my favorite headphones. The CD-3000 is one of the headphones on my "waste of money" list. I dont like the CD-3000 and I love the R10. I assure you - they have very little in common in these aspects :- * Cosmetically * Sonically Nothing alike.

Cosmetically they are alike except for the wooden cups, and the material of the frame (magnesium vs plastic), the rest is similar to the sight, or I'm blind, the headband is exactly the same shape, and the pieces that support the cups the same......Well IMO you are absolutelly wrong regarding the sonic part, and honestly I would like to know which do you think that will sound closer, the HD650, the HP-1000, the PS-1 or the K-1000???

 

[gsferrari]

Sonically -

R10 is similar to none of the headphones in the list. It is possibly a hybrid sound between HD-650 and K-1000 with the same HUGE soundstage as the CD-3000. Tonally it has no similarity whatsoever with the CD3000...they both have an awesome soundstage which is matched and bettered ONLY by the K1000.