[Duncan]

I would love to take castleofargh's post to sound science, as I really do need to work this out... The player I'm using has a 10ohm output but it makes the Layla's (at 20ohms) sound better than the ZX2 can hope to do...

There is some waffle about high slew rate, whether that makes a difference I have zip idea...

Anyhow, thanks for the factual insight.

 

[dsouza]

I would love to take @castleofargh's post to sound science, as I really do need to work this out... The player I'm using has a 10ohm output but it makes the Layla's (at 20ohms) sound better than the ZX2 can hope to do...

There is some waffle about high slew rate, whether that makes a difference I have zip idea...

Anyhow, thanks for the factual insight.

 
The perception of something that sounds good (subjective) is not necessarily related to high fidelity (objective, supported by measurements).It is more of personal taste. Just see how many people are using tube amps and vinyl. If you to measure the output of a tube amp or a vinyl the numbers will be bad. And still there are many high-end tube amps and vinyl players.
 
The goal is to have fun!

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

The player I'm using has a 10ohm output but it makes the Layla's (at 20ohms) sound better than the ZX2 can hope to do...

AR M2? I thought it had low output impedance? Anyway I got the new Aune B1 portable amp, it has an output impedance of 10 ohms, but that doesnt stop it sounding amazing, and I much prefer it to the amp stages of all my daps which have low impedance outputs. Apparently the latest version of B1 has 4 ohm output impedan due to influx of emails about the matter.
.

 

[castleofargh]

I would love to take @castleofargh's post to sound science, as I really do need to work this out... The player I'm using has a 10ohm output but it makes the Layla's (at 20ohms) sound better than the ZX2 can hope to do...

There is some waffle about high slew rate, whether that makes a difference I have zip idea...

Anyhow, thanks for the factual insight.

I plan to make a useless post on the subject in sound science but it's more trying to be a bridge between knowing nothing to getting the basics, than real exhaustive understanding (that I do not possess).  I'll let you know when I post it so that you can be one of the 6 people to read it

.
 
 my very own opinion is that I care about the frequency response more than anything else. when the damping factor is real bad but the IEM FR doesn't change, I honestly can't tell the difference unless I go to crazy bad ratios.
same with distortions, often sources plugged into low impedance IEMs have a hard time being as good as when they're plugged into a 150ohm headphone. but while even I can measure that because the degradation can be severe, I can't say that I actually notice it. (probably why I end up saying in my reviews that all DAPs sound the same when plugged into the proper IEM).
 
didn't get the opportunity to listen to the layla so I can't say, if we could get our hand on the impedance response graph like given on stuff measured on innerfidelity, then it would be possible to predict the signature change and just try to EQ the same thing into another DAP to find out if it's the FR that makes you move or something else.
[greed engaged] or you could send it to me so that I can measure the signature for you into a few loads... and listen to it

 

[Duncan]

AR M2? I thought it had low output impedance? Anyway I got the new Aune B1 portable amp, it has an output impedance of 10 ohms, but that doesnt stop it sounding amazing, and I much prefer it to the amp stages of all my daps which have low impedance outputs. Apparently the latest version of B1 has 4 ohm output impedan due to influx of emails about the matter.
.

Trying not to take the thread too far away from the A10 series of players, correct, yes, the AR M2... It was tested by a magazine and found to have an output impedance of 10ohms (I may suffer from special abilities and it might've said 1Ohm, but I swear not...)

 

[gerelmx1986]

I would love to take [@=/u/188025/castleofargh]@castleofargh[/@]'s post to sound science, as I really do need to work this out... The player I'm using has a 10ohm output but it makes the Layla's (at 20ohms) sound better than the ZX2 can hope to do...


There is some waffle about high slew rate, whether that makes a difference I have zip idea...


Anyhow, thanks for the factual insight.

The perception of something that sounds good (subjective) is not necessarily related to high fidelity (objective, supported my measurements).It is more of personal taste. Just see how many people are using tube amps and vinyl. If you to measure the output of a tube amp or a vinyl the numbers will be bad. And still there are many high-end tube amps and vinyl players.

The goal is to have fun!

I agree with this. Every one hears things different and the good sound also depends on the recording quality I'm listening to a great CPO recording

 

[pietcux]

 
I plan to make a useless post on the subject in sound science but it's more trying to be a bridge between knowing nothing to getting the basics, than real exhaustive understanding (that I do not possess).  I'll let you know when I post it so that you can be one of the 6 people to read it

.
 
 my very own opinion is that I care about the frequency response more than anything else. when the damping factor is real bad but the IEM FR doesn't change, I honestly can't tell the difference unless I go to crazy bad ratios.
same with distortions, often sources plugged into low impedance IEMs have a hard time being as good as when they're plugged into a 150ohm headphone. but while even I can measure that because the degradation can be severe, I can't say that I actually notice it. (probably why I end up saying in my reviews that all DAPs sound the same when plugged into the proper IEM).
 
didn't get the opportunity to listen to the layla so I can't say, if we could get our hand on the impedance response graph like given on stuff measured on innerfidelity, then it would be possible to predict the signature change and just try to EQ the same thing into another DAP to find out if it's the FR that makes you move or something else.
[greed engaged] or you could send it to me so that I can measure the signature for you into a few loads... and listen to it

This stuff would be much easier if we would standardize both the Source output impedance and the headphone impedance. That way you could be safe to run each headphone with each source. Just like any othe industrial standard helps a lot. But at times such a standard will block invention. Multi BA IEMs would simply not match any reasonable standard. But that is why I avoid too fancy things in this area. Just like a car that needs airplane fuel to run, does not make any sense to me.

 

[ClieOS]

 
This stuff would be much easier if we would standardize both the Source output impedance and the headphone impedance. That way you could be safe to run each headphone with each source. Just like any othe industrial standard helps a lot. But at times such a standard will block invention. Multi BA IEMs would simply not match any reasonable standard. But that is why I avoid too fancy things in this area. Just like a car that needs airplane fuel to run, does not make any sense to me.

 
We already know that ideal output impedance for all source that is designed to drive headphone - 1 ohm or less - the problem is not everyone is following it.. and there is nothing about output impedance that will stop invention, but plenty to show incompetent.

 

[castleofargh]

  This stuff would be much easier if we would standardize both the Source output impedance and the headphone impedance. That way you could be safe to run each headphone with each source. Just like any othe industrial standard helps a lot. But at times such a standard will block invention. Multi BA IEMs would simply not match any reasonable standard. But that is why I avoid too fancy things in this area. Just like a car that needs airplane fuel to run, does not make any sense to me.

 
we could just as well work with impedance matching if we decided to. have everything at one given impedance and stop there. like when spdif stuff are at 75ohm(or 50

) even for the cable itself. but it's easy to understand why it would annoy the hell out of headphone manufacturers.

 
 
avoiding fancy things is a very wise choice IMO. I wish I had started my audiophool's journey there. seriously!

 

[Kvud]

 

 

 

[gerelmx1986]

Generally I don't care about measures. For me as long as it sounds good and better than ipod

 

[Kvud]

IPOD - not bad for his fans!

 

[god-bluff]

Dr Meier quote :-
 

''With most headphones, increasing the output impedance makes the headphone sound darker and more muddy (the amplifier loosens his grip/control on the movement of the driver). However, some headphones (like the Beyerdynamic DT931) definitely sound better at 120 Ohm (which is an international audio standard)'
 

Maybe not just one answer ?
 
 
 
 

   
We already know that ideal output impedance for all source that is designed to drive headphone - 1 ohm or less - the problem is not everyone is following it.. and there is nothing about output impedance that will stop invention, but plenty to show incompetent.

 

[fsrkewd]

How scratchable is the screen ? My case won't arrive for another two weeks, so I am kind of worry

 

[god-bluff]

How scratchable is the screen ? My case won't arrive for another two weeks, so I am kind of worry

Very in a word. Just touch it with fingernail (maybe slight but only slightly exaggerated) but don't use in anger till you've got protection. Did for mine first day and maybe affected slightly what I got for it when I flogged it?!? 100quid slightly disappointed.