[alanchu99]

Thank for all your comment. However, I am unable to read them all.
 
I noticed that there is some non-Sony portable DAC can work with A10 Series (e.g. OPPO HA-2 and VENTURECRAFT VANTAM).
 
Is there any other DAC can work with A10 series.
 
I am considering ONKYO DAC HA200 / TECH P50 / AUDIO TECHNICA AT PHA100
 
Thank you for all of your advice
 
Mostly I am using Audio Technica IM70 with custom cable

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

 
Took apart my A15

 
pics please, can't find any A10 pcb pics on the net, need them for "research". We have all seen the insides of f880, zx1, zx2, so the a10 is the only s-masterhx dap yet to be undressed in public 

 
Has anyone recently compared F880 to A10? I know the A10 should technically be better according to Sony, but technical details aside I just wan't to know how they each sound according to peoples ears. I have a ZX2 and owned a ZX1 before, but I want a cheaper dap that I can abuse, so it's between f880 and a10.

 

[dura]

  "According to reports from Sandisk, one third of all memory cards on the market are counterfeit.You can not determine the actual memory capacity of a counterfeit memory card by simply viewing the capacity displayed by your computer, phone or camera. Counterfeiters fraudulently overwrite the cards internal memory with a false capacity which will display a false capacity on your device. Actual memory must be checked with a test program."   http://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/186/SDHC-Micro-SD-Memory-Cards.html
 
 
here is the software (for windows) they recommend for testing your card
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Miscellaneous/H2testw.shtml
 
and an alternate test program for mac
https://flashfakecentral.wordpress.com/testing-flash-memory-chips/h2testw-english-mac-alternative/

Thank you (and the others) for your advice! This makes it clear; I doewloaded the tool and tried it; indeed it seems only 30GB works. Either a dud or fake.
Glad I know what is the problem now, I'll return the card and get a new one.

 

[dogmusic]

   
And that didn't ring any bells as the biggest Micro SD so far is at 200GB and still costs 250 Dollars?

I knew there were 256GB SD cards so I assumed they had them in the micro. And I can't count the number of times some item has been listed for hundreds of dollars and I have found it for a fraction of that amount elsewhere.
 
In any case, I got my money back, and my experience was able to help someone else -- without snide remarks.

 

[castleofargh]

 

 
Took apart my A15

 
pics please, can't find any A10 pcb pics on the net, need them for "research". We have all seen the insides of f880, zx1, zx2, so the a10 is the only s-masterhx dap yet to be undressed in public 

 
Has anyone recently compared F880 to A10? I know the A10 should technically be better according to Sony who say:
 
Walkman A15 borrows details you’d expect from top-end hi-fi components, like high-purity lead-free solder that’s used extensively within the player for finely-detailed sound with balanced lows, mids and highs. In addition, the power supply line strengthened by thickened wires offers reduced impedance, reducing distortion and ensuring deep, resounding bass. The extremely rigid aluminium die-cast chassis further reduces electrical noise and stabilises sound reproduction. And instead of conventional ceramic capacitors, a high-grade POSCAP[ii] capacitor is used as the charge pump for the S-Master HX™ digital amplifier to minimise noise and distortion even further.
 
The F880 doesn't have these features, but technical details aside I just wan't to know how they each sound according to peoples ears. I have a ZX2 and owned a ZX1 before, but I want a cheaper dap that I can abuse, so it's between f880 and a10.

don't read too much into the marketing BS. here it's really not trustworthy explanation.
I'd be really amazed if the soldering changes had any meaningful effect on sound.
the thickened wire blablablah could also read as "hey we used a proper gauge to wire the battery like anybody else would! be amazed!!
the aluminium chassis could read as "the back of the DAP is made of the crappiest super thin plastic, because screw noise and durability right?" or maybe more because "hey we didn't want to look as stupid as apple with the casing blocking the bluetooth signal". they made practical decisions, the highres claims are made of wind and several cheaper DAPs measure better than a sony.
 
 
to me the F880 sounded very nice TBH, and with most IEMs not too different from the zx1(the feeling that instruments could go pretty far on the sides, you must see what I'm talking about maybe a good stereo separation, maybe just a little rise in trebles? IDK but it's was impressive). except that I could hear a slight "tac" noise every 2 seconds that drove me mad on sensitive IEM everytime there was a silent part in a song. otherwise the level of noise was IMO better than on the A10, so for sound overall, I may favor the F880.
now for small little DAP with no sound pretense that lasts an eternity and is rather small, the A10 is one of the best solution ever made IMO.

pick your poison  ^_^.

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

 
to me the F880 sounded very nice TBH, and with most IEMs not too different from the zx1(the feeling that instruments could go pretty far on the sides, you must see what I'm talking about maybe a good stereo separation, maybe just a little rise in trebles? IDK but it's was impressive). except that I could hear a slight "tac" noise every 2 seconds that drove me mad on sensitive IEM everytime there was a silent part in a song. otherwise the level of noise was IMO better than on the A10, so for sound overall, I may favor the F880.

 
Hey thanks for your input! The changes they claim are all true, but I'm sure each of them only have a very very small effect on the sound, and that the rest of the dap implementation has more of an effect on the sound, that's why I'm more interested in sound impressions. There is a pic of F880 and ZX1 where you can see the changes clearly:
 

 
Thicker wires on ZX1, which would mean slightly lower internal impedance, would technically extend bass and treble response (very slightly)
Os-con capacitors (essentially means aluminum polymer capacitors) on ZX1 compared to the completely ordinary ceramics used in the F880, os-cons should increases bass and power due to larger capacitance (ZX1-15mW, F880-10mW)
Larger coil resistors on ZX1 output, which reduces distortion.
 
A10 would most likely have wires thicker than F880, but not as thick as ZX1
A10 has poscap capacitors (essentially means tantalum capacitors), which are much better than the ordinary ceramics in the F880, not quite as good as os-con in ZX1.
A10 is touted as using high purity solder, while the ZX1 and F880 aren't, makes it more likely the A10 is using some variation of the 99% tin solder that the ZX2 uses.
 
From a technical point of view all these will change the sound to some very small degree, as all the changes are messing with impedance, resistance, distortion, capacitance. But I agree with you that these changes will only be reflected in the sound to a very very small degree. The actual circuitry implementation and software implementation will affect the sound more than these little changes. which is why I am more interested in sound impressions, because it is the dap as a whole unit that is producing the sound, not these little changes individually.
 
Which brings me to your impressions, you say the F880 has a 'tac' noise, are you talking about hiss or hum? sounds damn annoying, and did the A10 have anything like this? Hmm, your making it harder to choose between F880 and A10!

 

[ClieOS]

   
pics please, can't find any A10 pcb pics on the net, need them for "research". We have all seen the insides of f880, zx1, zx2, so the a10 is the only s-masterhx dap yet to be undressed in public 

 
Has anyone recently compared F880 to A10? I know the A10 should technically be better according to Sony, but technical details aside I just wan't to know how they each sound according to peoples ears. I have a ZX2 and owned a ZX1 before, but I want a cheaper dap that I can abuse, so it's between f880 and a10.

 
Didn't take any picture when I took it apart, but there are some internal pictures on the web, mainly on Japanese website. Sony Japan showcased a dissembled A15 / A17 back when it was first introduced and you can see it here: http://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201409/25/35630.html
 
The actual PCB is the one on the right. This particular picture is where Sony is comparing old PCB manufacturing technique to the new technique used on the A10 series, mainly with the use of high purity soldering tin.
 

 

 

[pietcux]

Hey thanks for your input! The changes they claim are all true, but I'm sure each of them only have a very very small effect on the sound, and that the rest of the dap implementation has more of an effect on the sound, that's why I'm more interested in sound impressions. There is a pic of F880 and ZX1 where you can see the changes clearly:




Thicker wires on ZX1, which would mean slightly lower internal impedance, would technically extend bass and treble response (very slightly)
Os-con capacitors (essentially means aluminum polymer capacitors) on ZX1 compared to the completely ordinary ceramics used in the F880, os-cons should increases bass and power due to larger capacitance (ZX1-15mW, F880-10mW)
Larger coil resistors on ZX1 output, which reduces distortion.

A10 would most likely have wires thicker than F880, but not as thick as ZX1
A10 has poscap capacitors (essentially means tantalum capacitors), which are much better than the ordinary ceramics in the F880, not quite as good as os-con in ZX1, but poscap is closer to os-con than to ordinary ceramics.
A10 is touted as using high purity solder, while the ZX1 and F880 aren't, makes it more likely the A10 is using some variation of the 99% tin solder that the ZX2 uses.

From a technical point of view all these will change the sound to some very small degree, as all the changes are messing with impedance, resistance, distortion, capacitance. But I agree with you that these changes will only be reflected in the sound to a very very small degree. The actual circuitry implementation and software implementation will affect the sound more than these little changes. which is why I am more interested in sound impressions, because it is the dap as a whole unit that is producing the sound, not these little changes individually.

Which brings me to your impressions, you say the F880 has a 'tac' noise, are you talking about hiss or hum? sounds damn annoying, and did the A10 have anything like this? Hmm, your making it harder to choose between F880 and A10!

I had this tac on my F886 after I tried to diable the sound engine to increase the volume. It was a very bad sensation. I managed to reset the player and the tac was gone. Never tried that again. Wouldn't do so on any other Sony player.
The ZX1 sounds significantly better than the F880. Much more mature and relaxed. And the power management seems to be much more efficient. I loose only 2% power overnight on idle. The F886 was around 15% roughly. Turned it off most of the time.

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

 
http://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201409/25/35630.html
The actual PCB is the one on the right. This particular picture is where Sony is comparing old PCB manufacturing technique to the new technique used on the A10 series, mainly with the use of high purity soldering tin.
 

 



 

 
 
Hey thanks heaps for the pics! Looks like my guesses were right, A10 is using the solder from ZX2 but F880 and ZX1 missed out on it. The wire of A10 is definitely thicker than F880, can't really tell if it's as thick as ZX1. That internal metal plate of A10 would also lower ground plane resistance over the F880. So looks like A10 beats F880 from a purely onlooking point of view, although F880 pcb has a bit more breathing room which could play a role.
 
 
Quote:

I had this tac on my F886 after I tried to diable the sound engine to increase the volume. It was a very bad sensation. I managed to reset the player and the tac was gone. Never tried that again.

 

Interesting, I always disabled the sound engine on ZX1 and I never had any tac or noise.

 

[castleofargh]

yeah I didn't try anything fancy on the F886, and I even sent one back saying it was defective, go another one with the same "tac" noise every 2 seconds, sent it back after a few days thinking I couldn't get used to it.
but it's something real quiet, I know it's hard to quantify what we hear, but if you ever heard it, the kind of buffering noise on a sansa clip is louder than this "tac". but on the sansa clips that happens like every 30seconds or so and it's a cheap crap so I'm lenient.
to describe that small noise, I would say it's like something was turned ON, or some small electrical contact. that kind of "tac" noise. when music is playing you pretty much can't hope to hear it, but it's present at all time even when not using the music player, you just turn the DAP ON and surely enough every 2 seconds "tac".
 
about the battery life when idle, my experience was that it was indeed bad, and a notable improvement came from doing a factory reset and not giving google any information at all(no google account no nothing). that clearly improved the battery life when idle. the drawback is that you can't get any cool app :'(
 
@ TRANCE  http://headphoniaks.com/blog/sony-walkman-a15-analisis-tecnico-y-review/  they made an english version of the review but I failed to find it in their new web design ^_^. lots of cool information.

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

  @ TRANCE  http://headphoniaks.com/blog/sony-walkman-a15-analisis-tecnico-y-review/  they made an english version of the review but I failed to find it in their new web design ^_^. lots of cool information.

 
Thanks! that's very interesting.

 

[BensonTT]

Hey guys, you know how the A17 has playlist 1, playlist 2 etc? Can we change the name?

 

[pietcux]

  yeah I didn't try anything fancy on the F886, and I even sent one back saying it was defective, go another one with the same "tac" noise every 2 seconds, sent it back after a few days thinking I couldn't get used to it.
but it's something real quiet, I know it's hard to quantify what we hear, but if you ever heard it, the kind of buffering noise on a sansa clip is louder than this "tac". but on the sansa clips that happens like every 30seconds or so and it's a cheap crap so I'm lenient.
to describe that small noise, I would say it's like something was turned ON, or some small electrical contact. that kind of "tac" noise. when music is playing you pretty much can't hope to hear it, but it's present at all time even when not using the music player, you just turn the DAP ON and surely enough every 2 seconds "tac".
 
about the battery life when idle, my experience was that it was indeed bad, and a notable improvement came from doing a factory reset and not giving google any information at all(no google account no nothing). that clearly improved the battery life when idle. the drawback is that you can't get any cool app :'(
 
@ TRANCE  http://headphoniaks.com/blog/sony-walkman-a15-analisis-tecnico-y-review/  they made an english version of the review but I failed to find it in their new web design ^_^. lots of cool information.

The tac on my F886 was clearly hear able even with music playing loud, so maybe a much louder iteration of the same sonic phenomenon. I was afraid, that I had ruined the whole device.

 

[Kvud]

when will fresh firmware? your empty jibber-jabber - I'm not interested, many of us absolutely don't care about it and from what you wrote here or did your stupid comparison - this will never work!

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

^ Seems you have A17 and F887 for sale so you must have been interested in the comparison yourself at some point, do you have any thoughts on them?