Whether people like a specific FW seems to be then often dependant on type of player 1A or 1Z, type of IEM/headphone, balanced or not, cable used, gain setting etc etc.
My ideas are that Sony is learning how to slowly make improvements with new firmware. It’s always going to be an end sound which is dependent on complete synergy with all equipment used. Success is subjective if the firmware has the tone someone is looking for. It’s a very different sound in comparison to 1.02 now. We know the changes as there is a group consensus about what each new firmware brings. These ideas are outside of what would be noted with different IEMs and desired taste, so we know the changes are fairly drastic. Though it’s also understandable some individuals seem to not notice sound differences between DACs or different firmwares. Just because a few don’t notice does not verify the changes don’t take place. It’s really a fairly large impression across all parts of the world that changes take place.
Though maybe only 1.02, 3.01 and 2.0 were the only updates which were generally regarded as beneficial across both models. It tends to be an enigma where some firmware updates make only one player better, as it’s difficult to program a good sound to affect both players equally? IMO.
What we can’t understand is it IS actually difficult to roll back firmware. As soon as Sony makes a new firmware...old variations are taken down from Sony download locations. Every once in a while you can find an old firmware for download but they are never all at one Sony location for a choice.
AMPLIFICATION?. Can I ask 2 questions please, because there is no line out on the A1 how does the phone out go connecting it to a desktop AMP, is that how it works?....and what desktop AMPs are you guys using with the A1/Z1, is the Sony TAZ the best choice or?
People do go out from the 3.5mm or 4.4mm to an amp. But it was a new thing to have Sony not offer line out. Many older Walkmans before the 1A and 1Z had line out. In theory using the two analog choices you are going to be using two volume controls, though people are happy. I didn’t like the sound going out 3.5mm to RCAX2 to my Asgard line in with the 1Z; it just didn’t sound right. Using the dock we are able to join the 1A or 1Z, or the included cable that allows connection to the Sony TA amplifier. Now the players are simply file servers for the TA DAC. This works best in my history use.
A description of the S-Master from Twister6's review. The digital signal is amplified by a digital Class D amp, so it does not use an Analog amplifier. It is digital all the way. https://twister6.com/2017/12/16/sony-nw-wm1z-dap/2/
"In my DAP reviews, the “under the hood” section usually starts with a discussion about which DAC is used in the design. And often the discussion continuous talking about using dual DACs in higher end models to separate L/R channels. WM1Z is different because Sony has a totally different approach to this design requirement – using their own digital S-Master HX amplifier.
S-Master digital amp is not a brand-new concept, Sony has been using it in a lot of their high-end desktop audio systems throughout years. But they continue to perfect it, to optimize it, and to adapt it for a portable use with their latest in-house developed S-Master HX semiconductor digital amplifier – model CXD-3778GF. This new evolution of S-Master HX digital amp wasn’t only optimized for efficient battery use, but also developed to be compatible with native DSD decoding, Balanced output, and High-Power output. Keep it mind, other entry and mid-fi Sony DAPs, like A40 and NX300, also use CXD-3778GF model, but they have a different implementation of LPF circuit where, for example, A40 uses switching FET inside of CXD-3778GF, while WM1 has high voltage FET outside of the digital amp.
I already mentioned “digital amp” a few times, and would like to talk more about its benefits. In a traditional design, decoded digital data stream is fed into D/A converter for digital signal to be converted into analog, then some Low Pass Filter (LPF), perhaps a volume control, and analog headphone amplifier section. Such traditional design generates “open-loop” distortion which is corrected with a Negative Feedback that has its own problems. Also, with a traditional off-the-shelf DAC architecture design, we see more dual DAC implementations to separate L/R channels in order to reduce the interference and crosstalk.
The problem with this architecture is that majority of the signal goes through analog path which is more susceptible to noise coupling, interference, and crosstalk. Even with L/R channel separation, you are still dealing with a small printed wiring board (pwb) and close proximity of the signals. What S-Master digital amp does is to completely replace the analog amplification with a digital amp technology without a feedback. S-Master doesn’t have D/A converter. Instead, the amp processes the digital signal until the final output stage where it uses LPF.
In a digital domain, there is no need for a dual DAC since you don’t have to worry about analog signal interference and crosstalk, and because this is a fully custom semiconductor design, Sony is in full control to optimize the audio performance (in this case supporting balanced output with DSD native playback in balanced mode only of up to 11.2MHz and Linear PCM playback up to 384kHz/32bit), and also to optimize battery life depending on the audio format playback."
A description of the S-Master from Twister6's review. The digital signal is amplified by a digital Class D amp, so it does not use an Analog amplifier. It is digital all the way. https://twister6.com/2017/12/16/sony-nw-wm1z-dap/2/
"In my DAP reviews, the “under the hood” section usually starts with a discussion about which DAC is used in the design. And often the discussion continuous talking about using dual DACs in higher end models to separate L/R channels. WM1Z is different because Sony has a totally different approach to this design requirement – using their own digital S-Master HX amplifier.
S-Master digital amp is not a brand-new concept, Sony has been using it in a lot of their high-end desktop audio systems throughout years. But they continue to perfect it, to optimize it, and to adapt it for a portable use with their latest in-house developed S-Master HX semiconductor digital amplifier – model CXD-3778GF. This new evolution of S-Master HX digital amp wasn’t only optimized for efficient battery use, but also developed to be compatible with native DSD decoding, Balanced output, and High-Power output. Keep it mind, other entry and mid-fi Sony DAPs, like A40 and NX300, also use CXD-3778GF model, but they have a different implementation of LPF circuit where, for example, A40 uses switching FET inside of CXD-3778GF, while WM1 has high voltage FET outside of the digital amp.
I already mentioned “digital amp” a few times, and would like to talk more about its benefits. In a traditional design, decoded digital data stream is fed into D/A converter for digital signal to be converted into analog, then some Low Pass Filter (LPF), perhaps a volume control, and analog headphone amplifier section. Such traditional design generates “open-loop” distortion which is corrected with a Negative Feedback that has its own problems. Also, with a traditional off-the-shelf DAC architecture design, we see more dual DAC implementations to separate L/R channels in order to reduce the interference and crosstalk.
The problem with this architecture is that majority of the signal goes through analog path which is more susceptible to noise coupling, interference, and crosstalk. Even with L/R channel separation, you are still dealing with a small printed wiring board (pwb) and close proximity of the signals. What S-Master digital amp does is to completely replace the analog amplification with a digital amp technology without a feedback. S-Master doesn’t have D/A converter. Instead, the amp processes the digital signal until the final output stage where it uses LPF.
In a digital domain, there is no need for a dual DAC since you don’t have to worry about analog signal interference and crosstalk, and because this is a fully custom semiconductor design, Sony is in full control to optimize the audio performance (in this case supporting balanced output with DSD native playback in balanced mode only of up to 11.2MHz and Linear PCM playback up to 384kHz/32bit), and also to optimize battery life depending on the audio format playback."
in their desktop-class S-Master sony claims PCM up to 768Khz /32-bit and DSD 512 (22.4Mhz). I wish sony could implement such a powerful chip in their walkman line. It would sincerely differentiate them from the crowd (many DAPs today do also pcm up to 384/32, DSD 256). The main issue holding sony doung this would be perhaps battery consuption and the scarce availaniluty of music in such sample rates
What we can’t understand is it IS actually difficult to roll back firmware. As soon as Sony makes a new firmware...old variations are taken down from Sony download locations. Every once in a while you can find an old firmware for download but they are never all at one Sony location for a choice.
Sony rep in Osaka, e-earphone owner said that's absurd and must be just the sound settings if anything besides human thought processing. If Sony did change sound quality / behavior, it would be mentioned in what they mentioned in patch notes
i dont think they're bad products just because sonic changes while.updating software. I know is annoying because you don't know what to expect. This is strange because on older walkmans the sound didn't change with firmware updates.
I have always tought that the S-master chip didnt had registers for bass, mid and highs, unlike a traditional dac chip. Sony my theory is they're playing with the sound for a major update coming possibly in 2020?
By the way that @riotgrrl is a nazi American who likes Donald Trump as. I've threatened him
Yeah, it’s very bad for a brand not to be able to keep a product quality constant, VERY BAD. It will actually destroy the brand.
There’s absolutely no way a firmware update changes the sound, maybe if you’re using software filters, like not using pure or direct sound, forgot the name. But that would be a huge mistake by Sony. Firmware updates are to get rid of bugs and errors, or improve performance of the UI and stability.
My ideas are that Sony is learning how to slowly make improvements with new firmware. It’s always going to be an end sound which is dependent on complete synergy with all equipment used. Success is subjective if the firmware has the tone someone is looking for. It’s a very different sound in comparison to 1.02 now. We know the changes as there is a group consensus about what each new firmware brings. These ideas are outside of what would be noted with different IEMs and desired taste, so we know the changes are fairly drastic. Though it’s also understandable some individuals seem to not notice sound differences between DACs or different firmwares. Just because a few don’t notice does not verify the changes don’t take place. It’s really a fairly large impression across all parts of the world that changes take place.
Though maybe only 1.02, 3.01 and 2.0 were the only updates which were generally regarded as beneficial across both models. It tends to be an enigma where some firmware updates make only one player better, as it’s difficult to program a good sound to affect both players equally? IMO.
Because you don’t program a sound. You design a hardware topology for that sound. Unless you’re using software filters to alter the sound, there is no way a firmware upgrade will change it, and even then it would be a big mistake. You think a company like Sony won’t test the sound precious to reales of a product? It’s the only thing that will make you buy it! Imagine if indeed the sound would change very time you updated it, you could sue Sony and demand a full refund, this is not what you bought!
Because you don’t program a sound. You design a hardware topology for that sound. Unless you’re using software filters to alter the sound, there is no way a firmware upgrade will change it, and even then it would be a big mistake. You think a company like Sony won’t test the sound precious to reales of a product? It’s the only thing that will make you buy it! Imagine if indeed the sound would change very time you updated it, you could sue Sony and demand a full refund, this is not what you bought!
So every time a car gets it’s computer system updated with new firmware the auto manufacturer opens themselves to getting sued? Every time windows does an update it can be sued as they improved the software and changed what you purchased? Remember you don’t ever have to update you can keep what came with your player, your car and your computer.
So every time your Apple phone updates it’s open for Apple being sued because it’s not what you purchased? Really?
The firmware most definitely changes the sound for the better for some, many times... most people.
They do test the sound before release but make improvements, just like companies make new improvements for the better all the time. Their ideas of what sounds good changes over time too. It doesn’t matter if the hardware or software gets changed the sound is different and a possible improvement.
So every time a car gets it’s computer system updated with new firmware the auto manufacturer opens themselves to getting sued? Every time windows does an update it can be sued as they improved the software and changed what you purchased? Remember you don’t ever have to update you can keep what came with your player, your car and your computer.
The firmware most definitely changes the sound for the better for some, many most.
The computer sound doesn’t change when you update Windows or the firmware of some hardware. The car doesn’t change as well.
Imagine a car that gave you less mileage per liter every time you update the firmware, or the suspension getting stiffer or any other change to the quality of the car and the reason you bought it?
You can’t do that, because sound is subjective, and some might not like it. What if they decide to ruin the sound because they think that’s good. Will you not want your money back. Sony will never do it. If it happens it’s because they don’t know about it or don’t know what they’re doing. And will never accept it happens. Just ask them.
The computer sound doesn’t change when you update Windows or the firmware of some hardware. The car doesn’t change as well.
Imagine a car that gave you less mileage per liter every time you update the firmware, or the suspension getting stiffer or any other change to the quality of the car and the reason you bought it?
Of course the computer changes it’s operation abilities by having allocations of performance changed to other places. Same as the car can actually get better fuel economy or worse economy. Stuff is changed and buyers embrace these changes due to brand loyalty.
Of course the computer changes it’s operation abilities by having allocations of performance changed to other places. Same as the car can actually get better fuel economy or worse economy. Stuff is changed and buyers embrace these changes due to brand loyalty.
With your car, your phone, your Walkman and your computer you “OK” to update. You give acceptance for the update. It’s OK not to hear the update, many hear different, and your right in that Sony doesn’t come out and list how the update sounds different. But the general consensus is the updates change the sound.
But if you buy a early edition of a car the mileage and power can change drastically with firmware. There is no liability, you sign that away, when you agree to update your firmware.
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