[normie610]

Are you trying to listen to older recordings which are thin sounding and listening if the player is adding warmth, or listening to modern recordings?

I say this because 3.0 will sound almost warmer if you listening to a modern HD track with a bunch of low end. It’s strange because more detail on a bass heavy track CAN make 3.0 sound super warm?

3.0 sounds warmer with this track in 192/24?

I think it’s the capacity now which we have?


But who knows? We have only had this for a day. Anything could happen as far as folks perception!

Most of my tracks are modern Hi-Res tracks but not necessarily bass heavy as I listen to mostly jazz and classical music. Perhaps it’s just how the 3.0 sounds with my i4.

 

[bflat]

Started with the 1Z in November right as FW 2.0 came out. It was confusing learning how the sound changed with burn in and the change to 2.0. But I was able to get a better understanding with the player at 200 hours of burn in with 2.0.

But it really is a personal thing and everyone perceives things different. Plus we all have different IEMs. There is also the new toy phenomenon. At times anything new sounds better, when in reality it’s just new.

But my understanding is we tend to notice things right off then other things start to emerge days and days later.

We will read how everyone reacts to this update. I can kinda tell already that there will be both DAC implementing issues with folk’s computers as well different perceptions of the sound of the update on the three players Sony made.

Completely agree. I was using an AK SP1000 with my Laylas and when I switched to the WM1z, I had to redo everything on my Laylas - cable, termination, ear tips, and bass tuner settings. I'm still tweaking those so it will be a while longer before I settle on what I find optimal for me. I will have a better idea of sound changes when 4.0 comes around LOL.

 

[Piotr Michalak]

Guys, I've just measured what 3.0 different settings do to the sound.

Measurements were made using WM1Z + Shure KSE1500 + full shell by sensaphonics (clear) + Forza Noir Hybrid (UPOCC 7N+silver) + miniDSP EARS set.

Here are the findings:

1. Direct is the same as direct turned off with all the settings turned off.
2. Normalisation turns the bass down by almost 2dB, and gives highs a very slight boost.
3. DSEE looks the same in all it's settings. Also DSEE looks the same as normalisation without DSEE.
4. Phase A high and Phase B high lower down the sub bass from 40-50 Hz downwards by about 1-2 dB, the lowest point being at 20 Hz.
5. Other phase settings look the same. They also look the same as if they were turned off.
6. Vinyl standard slightly lowers the volume of 45Hz and bumps the 55Hz, but only about 0.5 to 1dB Second "resonance" setting also looks like Standard setting.
7. The first resonance setting looks like the fourth vinyl setting. On the 4th setting, the bass is slightly less smooth.

Summing things up, there are almost no differences between these settings in terms of sound QUANTITY. The biggest difference is normalisation. There are some distortions in the vinyl settings. There also have to be some differences in other places which I can't measure using my cheap rig, especially since I hear clear differences between different Vinyl settings.

Here are some screenshots for you guys.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Yeah the more I listen the more I like 2.0 over 3.0. 2.0 to me is warmer...3.0 being a little brighter but I don't know if there are any more details really . It's just brighter. I wish I could have 2.0 sound with 3.0 software
My friends fourte is too sharp with 3.0 for example. Unpleasantly so. And I'm not sensitive to sibilance

Well.

Another thing. All dap manufacturers don't recognize or admit that software does alter sound... I find that a little *elementary school temperament *...

I guess I'll keep 3. 0 because of the awesome Bluetooth/usb dac features that should of been available from day one of this player.

Well the whole thing with us having to share roll back software is crazy. Sony should have it all as a choice to modify the tone to each persons liking. But they don’t admit there is a tone change each FW release, but it’s totally obvious they know they sound different. I mean they tuned the sound of the FW.

Though I guess it just depends on the person to decide which FW sounds best. See to me it’s not brighter only. Like with the soundtrack I posted above it’s like there is a greater frequency band. It actually goes both higher and deeper? They didn’t offer the DAC/BT receivership feature at the start as the 1Z was to be a minimized feature device.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Completely agree. I was using an AK SP1000 with my Laylas and when I switched to the WM1z, I had to redo everything on my Laylas - cable, termination, ear tips, and bass tuner settings. I'm still tweaking those so it will be a while longer before I settle on what I find optimal for me. I will have a better idea of sound changes when 4.0 comes around LOL.

So for you it isn’t just mental burn in but you EQ with cables, tips, filters. I hardly us the players EQ either, only a dash with my Encore IEMs. Though I’m trying to see if I can go EQ free with 3.0? It actually doesn’t sound much brighter than 2.0 with the Encore IEM? Again though it’s just something that takes time. I actually don’t think we will ever see a 4.0. Sony will move on, just like Media Go and drop updates.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Guys, I've just measured what 3.0 different settings do to the sound.

Measurements were made using WM1Z + Shure KSE1500 + full shell by sensaphonics (clear) + Forza Noir Hybrid (UPOCC 7N+silver) + miniDSP EARS set.

Here are the findings:

1. Direct is the same as direct turned off with all the settings turned off.
2. Normalisation turns the bass down by almost 2dB, and gives highs a very slight boost.
3. DSEE looks the same in all it's settings. Also DSEE looks the same as normalisation without DSEE.
4. Phase A high and Phase B high lower down the sub bass from 40-50 Hz downwards by about 1-2 dB, the lowest point being at 20 Hz.
5. Other phase settings look the same. They also look the same as if they were turned off.
6. Vinyl standard slightly lowers the volume of 45Hz and bumps the 55Hz, but only about 0.5 to 1dB Second "resonance" setting also looks like Standard setting.
7. The first resonance setting looks like the fourth vinyl setting. On the 4th setting, the bass is slightly less smooth.

Summing things up, there are almost no differences between these settings in terms of sound QUANTITY. The biggest difference is normalisation. There are some distortions in the vinyl settings. There also have to be some differences in other places which I can't measure using my cheap rig, especially since I hear clear differences between different Vinyl settings.

Here are some screenshots for you guys.

What you are doing is a ton of work! But you may find some options on the player are beyond the ability of your testing methodology to determine. IMO

Just like some of us can hear settings and some can’t. What would really be a gift is if you could measure the distinct frequency differences between 2.0 and FW 3.0.

As some already hear no differences from 2.0 to 3.0. And...... some hear 3.0 warm and others think 3.0 is less bass heavy. Lol

 

[Returnity]

Another thing I noticed is that the SE output's sound quality got insanely close to the one of balanced output.

They weren't much different beforehand either but I enjoy SE with v3 much more than before.

BTW, I was using direct source with v2. The changes in bass can easily be remedied by using tone control and adding +1 or 2 to bass. I was a purist before and hated using EQ and such, but the basic tone control gives back the device's authority in bass quite successfully IMHO.

I think v3 will mostly benefit to those with XBA-Z5 or Z1R from a purist's standpoint. I'm on the lookout for an IEM to complement my Andromedas with a fun signature and eyeing the Z5. This may be the perfect time to grab one I guess. Any tips?

 

[bflat]

Got to say, the WM1z in DAC mode with my Laylas is about as good as an all-in-one unit can be. With the battery saver option on (90% charge limit) I can leave it plugged in and on 24x7 and not worry about battery health.

I have another cross country flight coming up and look forward to trying the BT receiver with my iPhone and Netflix.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Most of my tracks are modern Hi-Res tracks but not necessarily bass heavy as I listen to mostly jazz and classical music. Perhaps it’s just how the 3.0 sounds with my i4.

It WOULD be crazy if Sony really got to the HD area they sought after? The fact that the player is warmer with only HD and 3.0? Stranger things have happened. I actually don’t have many DSD or HD tracks to test this phenomena. But it could be broader frequency responce? The bass does sound pretty good in HD. All my IEMs sound different with 3.0? It’s hard to generalize at this point. But my first impression was it was less warm like others have stated. But your right HD is a different world? This is wild.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Another thing I noticed is that the SE output's sound quality got insanely close to the one of balanced output.

They weren't much different beforehand either but I enjoy SE with v3 much more than before.

BTW, I was using direct source with v2. The changes in bass can easily be remedied by using tone control and adding +1 or 2 to bass. I was a purist before and hated using EQ and such, but the basic tone control gives back the device's authority in bass quite successfully IMHO.

I think v3 will mostly benefit to those with XBA-Z5 or Z1R from a purist's standpoint. I'm on the lookout for an IEM to complement my Andromedas with a fun signature and eyeing the Z5. This may be the perfect time to grab one I guess. Any tips?

I spent a small while today with 3.0 1Z and the Z5. It was nice but I can’t really report on the combo as of yet. Just remember you may not like the included cable and there is no way to go 4.4 balanced with the Z5 until you purchase an aftermarket MMCX to 4.4mm 5 pole Pentaconn cable. Just saying......

But they are going on sale, one post here stated a member got his this week for 1/2 price. I got mine for free with the 1Z last November.

 

[Returnity]

I spent a small while today with 3.0 1Z and the Z5. It was nice but I can’t really report on the combo as of yet. Just remember you may not like the included cable and there is no way to go 4.4 balanced with the Z5 until you purchase an aftermarket MMCX to 4.4mm 5 pole Pentaconn cable. Just saying......

But they are going on sale, one post here stated a member got his this week for 1/2 price. I got mine for free with the 1Z last November.

I already have a 4.4mm to mmcx balanced cable, so that should work hopefully!

 

[nc8000]

Well the whole thing with us having to share roll back software is crazy. Sony should have it all as a choice to modify the tone to each persons liking. But they don’t admit there is a tone change each FW release, but it’s totally obvious they know they sound different. I mean they tuned the sound of the FW.

Though I guess it just depends on the person to decide which FW sounds best. See to me it’s not brighter only. Like with the soundtrack I posted above it’s like there is a greater frequency band. It actually goes both higher and deeper? They didn’t offer the DAC/BT receivership feature at the start as the 1Z was to be a minimized feature device.

iBasso never admitted that the sound changed with the various fw updates on the DX90 but they did

 

[Redcarmoose]

I already have a 4.4mm to mmcx balanced cable, so that should work hopefully!

The thing is the Z5 is not the best fitting IEM. The whole structure sits in the air outside your ear, where most IEMs sit along the side of your ear.

So many of us have gone to Sony Triple Comfort Tips. They are thick as heck and mount the Z5 like a giant USB stick plugged into your ear.

I Iove the Z5 and now they can be like $360-$400 maybe. But you have to deal with some aspects which are not perfect.......like wives. Lol

 

[Returnity]

The thing is the Z5 is not the best fitting IEM. The whole structure sits in the air outside your ear, where most IEMs sit along the side of your ear.

So many of us have gone to Sony Triple Comfort Tips. They are thick as heck and mount the Z5 like a giant USB stick plugged into your ear.

I Iove the Z5 and now they can be like $360-$400 maybe. But you have to deal with some aspects which are not perfect.......like wives. Lol

Yeah they definitely do look awkward! My wife probably will laugh at sight of it and ask "is this the one you paid that much money for?" After my reply I hope she will continue laughing, Lol

 

[Redcarmoose]

Guys, I've just measured what 3.0 different settings do to the sound.

Measurements were made using WM1Z + Shure KSE1500 + full shell by sensaphonics (clear) + Forza Noir Hybrid (UPOCC 7N+silver) + miniDSP EARS set.

Here are the findings:

1. Direct is the same as direct turned off with all the settings turned off.
2. Normalisation turns the bass down by almost 2dB, and gives highs a very slight boost.
3. DSEE looks the same in all it's settings. Also DSEE looks the same as normalisation without DSEE.
4. Phase A high and Phase B high lower down the sub bass from 40-50 Hz downwards by about 1-2 dB, the lowest point being at 20 Hz.
5. Other phase settings look the same. They also look the same as if they were turned off.
6. Vinyl standard slightly lowers the volume of 45Hz and bumps the 55Hz, but only about 0.5 to 1dB Second "resonance" setting also looks like Standard setting.
7. The first resonance setting looks like the fourth vinyl setting. On the 4th setting, the bass is slightly less smooth.

Summing things up, there are almost no differences between these settings in terms of sound QUANTITY. The biggest difference is normalisation. There are some distortions in the vinyl settings. There also have to be some differences in other places which I can't measure using my cheap rig, especially since I hear clear differences between different Vinyl settings.

Here are some screenshots for you guys.

It sure would be interesting if HD files reproduced a different frequency response in your testing with 3.0?