[purk]

Purk,
The EC Studio is my end game amp,I will try out Dougs Ecp amps when I get the chance.

Please do. My L3 works wonder on both my HD800, and R10...really make them reach the new heights.

 

[mrtim6]

Thanks Purk for your insights

 

[tabness]

Any of the R10 owners have experience with the Focal Utopia headphones? Any similarities? I do understand that the R10 use biocellulose vs beryllium. I am currently using the Utopias which have a very addictive balanced sound. I also own the excellent Yamaha NS-2000 speakers which also use beryllium tweeters & mids and I know just how good they sound.

I know the Utopias are open & R10 closed just wondering...

The only time I listened to the Utopia was in a quick audition where I bought my R10 to compare with directly back to back (I also had the Clear at this time). I was mainly listening for detail. I was unimpressed enough (in comparison to the R10 of course) as I don't think the Utopia was any more detailed so I went quickly back to auditioning the Sopra speakers. The R10 really did not sound like a closed headphone in comparison to the Utopia (this is also my impression with the Clear)

The Utopia was more comfortable than the Clear though and I am reconsidering it.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Any of the R10 owners have experience with the Focal Utopia headphones? Any similarities? I do understand that the R10 use biocellulose vs beryllium. I am currently using the Utopias which have a very addictive balanced sound. I also own the excellent Yamaha NS-2000 speakers which also use beryllium tweeters & mids and I know just how good they sound.

I know the Utopias are open & R10 closed just wondering...

Adding to what purk said, someone above also compared the R10 to the Focal Clear which is somewhat similar to the Utopia.

I'm most curious as to how the R10 compared to the ZMF Eikon. I also wouldn't mind seeing ZMF adopt the shape of the R10's cups in one of their headphones if it would benefit sound stage.

 

[tabness]

Any of the R10 owners have experience with the Focal Utopia headphones? Any similarities? I do understand that the R10 use biocellulose vs beryllium. I am currently using the Utopias which have a very addictive balanced sound. I also own the excellent Yamaha NS-2000 speakers which also use beryllium tweeters & mids and I know just how good they sound.

I know the Utopias are open & R10 closed just wondering...

So I pulled the trigger on the Utopia and it should arrive in a couple of days so I will post some impressions after listening and comparing.

Having done a bit more comparisons with the Clear and R10 basically I can now tell that the main consistent difference that I notice is that the Clear sounds slightly veiled on vocals as well as lead guitar and piano (this is in comparison with the R10 only as the Z7 is way more veiled than the Clear for example) In many songs it is just a slight difference but in a few songs, the R10 gets that uncanny "real" sound it is known for.

 

[mrtim6]

Thanks Tabness - very interested in your impressions, especially over time. I have been listening to the utopia now for over a month and I am extremely impressed using it with the Sony TA-ZH1ES. I'm sure it scales well too.
I am also a big fan of Sony's high end offerings including their amplifiers - I own the TA-N7 VFET amp from 1977 and the TA-E88 pre-amp which is fed by a Yamaha GT-2000X turntable. My speakers are the Yamaha NS-2000 with beryllium mid & tweeter drivers. The quality of high end Japanese hifi particularly from Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer Diatone etc is extremely high.
Here's hoping Sony re-consider it's biocellulose (R10) and nanotech (010) driver technologies again.

I'm starting to wonder if the question I should have asked is a comparison between a well fitted Sony Qualia 010 and the Focal Utopia, as I suspect they may have some similar traits in terms of speed, imaging and resolution. Hopefully Purk might be able to shed some light on this question.

 

[frank2908]

Anyone got a pocture of the inside of the cups / cutaway photo? I have been seatchsea for years for some design inspiration for my next veraion of 3d printed hd800

 

[chi2]

Am I the only one having (had) an issue with the too forward upper mids of the R10? My specimen, purchased from the original owner about ten years ago, was sometimes so shouty that it drove me nuts. One of the worst experiences I remember was with Patricia Barbers live recorded Back Magic Woman (Premonition Years vol. 1) in which the higher notes of the hammond organ were short of destroying my eardrums - at moderate levels. I suspected an interaction of headphone and ear channel resonances but didn’t have a measurement rig back then to check the frequency response (and the distortion). As the problem was the same left and right I ruled out a driver defect.

This overdone forwardness, the lack of deep bass, and the risk of disintegrating drivers (I've had that happen to me with a biocellulose driver of my CD3000) made me sell the R10 after two years. Never regretted it much as I preferred the HE90 and the Omega, 4070, and 007 and later the 009. For a closed headphone, however, the R10 had an impressive soundstage and excellent imaging capabilities.

 

[purk]

Am I the only one having (had) an issue with the too forward upper mids of the R10? My specimen, purchased from the original owner about ten years ago, was sometimes so shouty that it drove me nuts. One of the worst experiences I remember was with Patricia Barbers live recorded Back Magic Woman (Premonition Years vol. 1) in which the higher notes of the hammond organ were short of destroying my eardrums - at moderate levels. I suspected an interaction of headphone and ear channel resonances but didn’t have a measurement rig back then to check the frequency response (and the distortion). As the problem was the same left and right I ruled out a driver defect.

This overdone forwardness, the lack of deep bass, and the risk of disintegrating drivers (I've had that happen to me with a biocellulose driver of my CD3000) made me sell the R10 after two years. Never regretted it much as I preferred the HE90 and the Omega, 4070, and 007 and later the 009. For a closed headphone, however, the R10 had an impressive soundstage and excellent imaging capabilities.

Likely has to do with the inner foam rings disintegrating. My R10 always have the best vocal performance around male or female.

 

[chi2]

I remember having checked on the drivers and not seeing anything suspicious about them or about the foam rings around the drivers - if it’s these you meant and not anything invisible without removing the drivers. I had no chance of comparing my R10 to another one as I didn‘t know any other owner in Switzerland.

 

[purk]

I remember having checked on the drivers and not seeing anything suspicious about them or about the foam rings around the drivers - if it’s these you meant and not anything invisible without removing the drivers. I had no chance of comparing my R10 to another one as I didn‘t know any other owner in Switzerland.

Very likely that is the case. You need to remove the earpads to see it. I believe Sony used that foam ring to tune the sound from the driver. Using a closed cell foam in place of stock will up the bass considerably but it will also change other aspects of the sound.

 

[urs]

I remember having checked on the drivers and not seeing anything suspicious about them or about the foam rings around the drivers - if it’s these you meant and not anything invisible without removing the drivers. I had no chance of comparing my R10 to another one as I didn‘t know any other owner in Switzerland.

Chic2,

Where in Switzerland do you live ?
I'm located in Horgen / ZH.
We could organize a "very local & limited R-10 Meet" ??

Regards

Urs

direct mail 291-s@web.de

 

[rgs9200m]

Yeah, I found the R10s had digital glare (in vocals a lot) that annoyed me terribly and made them fatiguing and made me wince. I had 2 bass light ones that did that. I sold them both. Not my cup of tea. Nice staging though.
I like Utopias and Susvaras better.

 

[chi2]

Hi Urs,
Thanks for your offer. Just sent you an email.
Best, chi2

Chic2,

Where in Switzerland do you live ?
I'm located in Horgen / ZH.
We could organize a "very local & limited R-10 Meet" ??

Regards

Urs

direct mail 291-s@web.de

 

[tabness]

Thanks Tabness - very interested in your impressions, especially over time. I have been listening to the utopia now for over a month and I am extremely impressed using it with the Sony TA-ZH1ES. I'm sure it scales well too.
I am also a big fan of Sony's high end offerings including their amplifiers - I own the TA-N7 VFET amp from 1977 and the TA-E88 pre-amp which is fed by a Yamaha GT-2000X turntable. My speakers are the Yamaha NS-2000 with beryllium mid & tweeter drivers. The quality of high end Japanese hifi particularly from Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer Diatone etc is extremely high.
Here's hoping Sony re-consider it's biocellulose (R10) and nanotech (010) driver technologies again.

I'm starting to wonder if the question I should have asked is a comparison between a well fitted Sony Qualia 010 and the Focal Utopia, as I suspect they may have some similar traits in terms of speed, imaging and resolution. Hopefully Purk might be able to shed some light on this question.

Sorry it has taken me some time to get back to this thread, but that's mainly because I've been enjoying the Utopia so much and listening to them for long periods. I posted some initial impressions in the Utopia thread mostly based on Utopia vs Clear (my view was and is essentially there is a minor difference between them sound quality wise with the Utopia being slightly less veiled and sightly more detailed but with lesser bass impact all of which line up with my preferences but that the comfort improvement for me personally sealed the deal in keeping the Utopia), but because of the comfort difference, I've probably listened as much to the Utopia in weeks as I did to the Clear in months.

Yesterday, I did some comparisons with the R10. My impressions are pretty similar to my impressions with the Clear so I'll keep it short. The Utopia is slightly more detailed than the Clear which I felt was maybe very slightly more detailed than the R10. While I felt that the Clear was slightly veiled compared to the R10, the Utopia definitely makes the R10 seem slightly veiled. Since I'm generally far from a basshead, I found myself missing the bass of the Clear when compared to the Utopia on only very few songs, but with the R10, I miss the bass with more of my favorite hip hop songs (many G Funk songs are still fine to me with the R10 though). The Utopia is more in your face, and I like that. The Utopia handles itself better against the R10 on mids than the Clear.

To sum it up, sound quality wise, for my preferences, and the stuff I listen to, I think I generally will slightly prefer the Utopia (which was essentially my same conclusion with the Clear though I wasn't as certain).

Saying that in favor of the Utopia though, the R10 still just sounds better on a select few songs. These tend to be mostly acoustic singer/songwriter type songs from the seventies, which for some reason I have gotten into recently (I remember my mama listening to this stuff on the radio in the car when I was young). The R10 sounds so natural and real on these, maybe because of the biocellulose drivers that seem a bit further away from the ear or the wood cups or the tuning, it is just so beautiful, it makes the clear and punchy sound of the Utopia, which I generally love, just not sound as good! I'm never going to be one to listen to classical, but it is nice that I can find a few things to listen to that the R10 does best.

I think I read in the Z7/Z1R threads that Sony has publicly stated they have no intention of ever creating an R10 successor anymore. It was made by a different group in a different era for a different audience. I don't necessarily blame them, as though I haven't heard it myself, given what I've read about it, and having the Z7, the Z1R is probably the high end headphone I would suggest to most people I know, as I believe it will be the world's best headphone for them above Utopia/009/whatever, even if it isn't my own preferred sound signature. Sony tunes their headphones specifically for a sound, which might make their flagships less versatile than something like the Utopia, but better specialized. They simply tuned one way on the R10 and another on the Z1R.

I am happy I can justify keeping the R10 beyond just a legendary status reason for a bit longer (a pipedream of mine is to put together a system of the entire R10 line: CDP-R10 CD transport, DAS-R10 DAC, TA-ER1 preamp (sucks there wasn't an R10 version lol) TA-NR10 power amp, and SS-R10 electrostatic speakers though I will most likely never be able to and just end up selling my R10).

Lastly, I found a frequency response chart in the Z7 thread for the R10 (https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/6908697.jpg) and doing quick comparisons with InnerFidelity measurements it seems most similar to the Pioneer SE-Master1. I never heard these before, and I've spent way too much on headphones to consider getting them anytime soon, but I remember thinking about it before (I read a review that trashed them on The Verge but remember thinking that they might be a good fit for me). Guess I'll have to check out the head-fi thread.