[Sp12er3]

I have suspicion that they do with the Kaiser being traditional multi BA and Z1R has that unique hybrid setup.
But I do remember the Kaiser non Encore's strong point is also the bass, it has good depth, extension and impact, and I loved it for it, Soundstage was about average (which for me is disappointing for the price), layering is great, good frontal depth (which was new for me in IEM), good detail, smooth treble etc etc, all of which I think the Z1R will beat them at, with it being almost 2x the price, I sure hope so.

To note, all the K10's impression was from when I barely had any iem, I think I had a couple 100 usd pieces back then.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I have suspicion that they do with the Kaiser being traditional multi BA and Z1R has that unique hybrid setup.
But I do remember the Kaiser non Encore's strong point is also the bass, it has good depth, extension and impact, and I loved it for it, Soundstage was about average (which for me is disappointing for the price), layering is great, good frontal depth (which was new for me in IEM), good detail, smooth treble etc etc, all of which I think the Z1R will beat them at, with it being almost 2x the price, I sure hope so.

To note, all the K10's impression was from when I barely had any iem, I think I had a couple 100 usd pieces back then.

You can read my impressions of the IER-Z1R here.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sony-ier-z1r.23390/reviews#review-21713

I wrote it in March of 2019 with the IER-Z1R out only a week. I still feel exactly the same about them all these years later? They are great! You could retire from Head-Fi with them! Cheers!

 

[JoelWilcox]

I have the 3 year protection plus because it even covers drops, damage, replacement. A lot can happen in three years and $279 is a lot less painful than looking at my $2000 headphones with a giant dent in them. I have not utilized the protection, but it seems automatic: you simply take care of everything in their automated system inside the product locker. Sony doesn’t repair Z1Rs they only replace them

Thanks, ilbisonte. Re Sony Protection/Protection Plus I agree it's good to have a plan for the same reasons, and getting replacement IER-Z1Rs seems a lot more straight-forward than waiting on repairs. Maybe for that reason it makes good sense. Being that I'm also into good photography equipment, I wasn't so pleased reading one photographer's experience going back and forth with Sony Protection. But so often it's only the bad experiences we hear of. Re the audio side, I've read of people getting replacements within the standard warranty only; my guess is not many have sprung for the added protection as you have, or else gear lasts forever if it makes it through the first year. But covering for drops and damage is enticing.

 

[Neweymatt]

There's not much to step up too! Z1r is generally considered top tier!

I'm not necessarily looking for a step up as such because….

They are great! You could retire from Head-Fi with them! Cheers!

…this is likely true!

I'm mainly curious to learn from those with experience of Empire's LX, Odin, EVO as compared to Z1R, they too have a reputation for excellent bass with strong technical capabilities.

 

[JoelWilcox]

I'm not necessarily looking for a step up as such because….

…this is likely true!

I'm mainly curious to learn from those with experience of Empire's LX, Odin, EVO as compared to Z1R, they too have a reputation for excellent bass with strong technical capabilities.

I just came across Crin's Premium Graph Comparison Tool: https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Dusk_S2
It would seem useful, for ballpark purposes, to overlay frequency lines of IEMs with suspected similarities, but wonder about the design intangibles that might affect sound signatures, besides small differences in frequency responses making big differences. Seems useful -- to a point.

 

[JoelWilcox]

Anyone have any experiences of finding an IEM that is similar sounding to IER-Z1R? I love my Z1R but I want something that is comfier for longer.

Just splashed out on the AZLA SednaEarfit tips twice (bought the larger sized ones first which are far too big for my shallow small ear canals). The SS is far too small and doesn't seal and the S or MS is best but still not as comfy as the stock triple comfort fit tips.

Watching crins YouTube review tonight makes me realise how shallow my ears must be. He pushes them so deep - no way I can push in so far.

The Z1R sound is so perfect for me, but surely there is something out there for shallower ears with the same sound signature.

Had the Odin, Thummim and IE900 but nothing touches the Z1R for my audio desires.

I'm trying to figure out this multi-quote thing, but posted the following to Neweymatt on the same thing:

I just came across Crin's Premium Graph Comparison Tool: https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Dusk_S2
It would seem useful, for ballpark purposes, to overlay frequency lines of IEMs with suspected similarities, but wonder about the design intangibles that might affect sound signatures, besides small differences in frequency responses making big differences. Seems useful -- to a point.

I suspect you've already discovered this tool and realized the limits of frequency comparisons? Or maybe, to one who really understands the charts, they're extremely revealing/useful? I'm wondering.

 

[Verificateur]

I'm not necessarily looking for a step up as such because….

…this is likely true!

I'm mainly curious to learn from those with experience of Empire's LX, Odin, EVO as compared to Z1R, they too have a reputation for excellent bass with strong technical capabilities.

I apologize in advance, I am not an experienced audiophile and may not have the proper vocabulary to express my impressions, but I just recently got the IER Z1R, and used to own both the EE Odin and EE Legend X before (now sold). As well — my main source has been the Shanling M8.

To keep it short … to my ears, IER Z1R sounds the best, and that is likely due to its tonality/tuning, and (luckily) a perfect fit for my ears.
Speaking of fit, I actually find the IER Z1R more comfortable than the LX (which I noticed I had to adjust in my ears from time to time), and also marginally more comfortable than Odin (which was comfortable, but had to be twisted after insertion to ensure that seal is maintained). Maybe it’s my ears, but with IER Z1R I just insert them all the way in (deep), and they just stay there like ear plugs.

When it comes to sound…
The Odin sounds very “clear”. It’s a very revealing IEM with amazing detail retrieval. Even though I wasn’t averse to the increased upper midrange tuning, I did find it slightly fatiguing after listening for long periods of time.
Z1R sounds similar to Odin, in a way, but is more smooth throughout, with a bit less detail retrieval (less technical), but adds that sense of enveloping energy and engagement that is not fatiguing.
I would say that bass response was great on both, very articulate and controlled. However, when it comes to treble — I do prefer the treble on the IER Z1R, it’s so transparent and airy, yet non-harsh.

When it comes to Legend X… it’s definitely more bassy than IER Z1R. But… that bass does spread into other frequencies and kind of floods the music a bit. For some genres it actually works, for others not so much. I found the LX and IER Z1R both similar in a way that they were easy to listen to and had this smooth sound signature that wasn’t fatiguing. However, my ears definitely preferred the IER Z1R due to the added clarity overall, better separation and better treble extension/presence to my ears.

Hope this helps… let me know if you have any specific questions.

 

[gerelmx1986]

I have suspicion that they do with the Kaiser being traditional multi BA and Z1R has that unique hybrid setup.
But I do remember the Kaiser non Encore's strong point is also the bass, it has good depth, extension and impact, and I loved it for it, Soundstage was about average (which for me is disappointing for the price), layering is great, good frontal depth (which was new for me in IEM), good detail, smooth treble etc etc, all of which I think the Z1R will beat them at, with it being almost 2x the price, I sure hope so.

To note, all the K10's impression was from when I barely had any iem, I think I had a couple 100 usd pieces back then.

Well i dont knowif it has to do with being Multi-BA IEM. I have an IER-M7 which is a multi BA and the bass digs deep for a BA, but it does not deccay like a DD

 

[Damz87]

There's not much to step up too! Z1r is generally considered top tier! I've been warming up mote and more to thr mest mkii, but can't compare to z1r till tomorrow.

The next step up (only imho of course) is the Elysian Acoustics Labs X. That is the first IEM I’ve heard where I’ve felt it is a genuine upgrade to IER-Z1R (in terms of IEM’s going for a similar sound)

But it’s also 3 times the price…

 

[JoshG1217]

The next step up (only imho of course) is the Elysian Acoustics Labs X. That is the first IEM I’ve heard where I’ve felt it is a genuine upgrade to IER-Z1R (in terms of IEM’s going for a similar sound)

But it’s also 3 times the price…

Yeah, I think BGGAR just moved that to top of his list.

 

[JoelWilcox]

The next step up (only imho of course) is the Elysian Acoustics Labs X. That is the first IEM I’ve heard where I’ve felt it is a genuine upgrade to IER-Z1R (in terms of IEM’s going for a similar sound)

But it’s also 3 times the price…

Yeah, I think BGGAR just moved that to top of his list.

Two great comments. Hadn't heard of BGGAR, and was wondering what an upgrade might look like. Thanks for asking, Josh, although I know it is more of a side grade to the Z1R you're looking for that fits better. Re fitting the Z1R, have you considered custom tips? I use these for both my IEMs, including the IER-Z1R: https://www.adv-sound.com/collections/audiophile-iem/products/eartune-fidelity-custom-fit-eartips

They work great. Since they fill the space in and around the ear canal, the size and shape of the IEM becomes irrelevant.

 

[JoshG1217]

So z1r came and I've been doing a/B with mest mkii. Gotta say, mest is winning at this point. It has better detail retrieval. Still testing but that's my initial thought

 

[JoshG1217]

So z1r came and I've been doing a/B with mest mkii. Gotta say, mest is winning at this point. It has better detail retrieval. Still testing but that's my initial thought

Z1r had that big deep bass though. I can get the same effect with mest mkii using the xbass with hipdac 2,but z1r is wider while mest is more intimate. They are both really good. Hmm.

 

[Neweymatt]

I apologize in advance, I am not an experienced audiophile and may not have the proper vocabulary to express my impressions, but I just recently got the IER Z1R, and used to own both the EE Odin and EE Legend X before (now sold). As well — my main source has been the Shanling M8.

To keep it short … to my ears, IER Z1R sounds the best, and that is likely due to its tonality/tuning, and (luckily) a perfect fit for my ears.
Speaking of fit, I actually find the IER Z1R more comfortable than the LX (which I noticed I had to adjust in my ears from time to time), and also marginally more comfortable than Odin (which was comfortable, but had to be twisted after insertion to ensure that seal is maintained). Maybe it’s my ears, but with IER Z1R I just insert them all the way in (deep), and they just stay there like ear plugs.

When it comes to sound…
The Odin sounds very “clear”. It’s a very revealing IEM with amazing detail retrieval. Even though I wasn’t averse to the increased upper midrange tuning, I did find it slightly fatiguing after listening for long periods of time.
Z1R sounds similar to Odin, in a way, but is more smooth throughout, with a bit less detail retrieval (less technical), but adds that sense of enveloping energy and engagement that is not fatiguing.
I would say that bass response was great on both, very articulate and controlled. However, when it comes to treble — I do prefer the treble on the IER Z1R, it’s so transparent and airy, yet non-harsh.

When it comes to Legend X… it’s definitely more bassy than IER Z1R. But… that bass does spread into other frequencies and kind of floods the music a bit. For some genres it actually works, for others not so much. I found the LX and IER Z1R both similar in a way that they were easy to listen to and had this smooth sound signature that wasn’t fatiguing. However, my ears definitely preferred the IER Z1R due to the added clarity overall, better separation and better treble extension/presence to my ears.

Hope this helps… let me know if you have any specific questions.

That's really great, appreciate your impressions & comparisons!!

I wouldn't be thinking to replace the Z1R, rather I'm after something complementary. This is why I've also got the Andro and 3DT, as there are more differences than similarities between the 3 of them. I've come to realise there is no one "best" sound or tuning for me, rather there are quite a lot of excellent ways to present music, and I'm keen to build up a collection of them with multiple combinations of IEMs/Headphones and sources.

I will at some stage, hopefully sooner than later, finally be able to get to one of the shops to have a listen to some of the Empire IEMs for myself, but I suspect I'm already on a good thing with the Z1R anyways.

 

[Neweymatt]

The next step up (only imho of course) is the Elysian Acoustics Labs X. That is the first IEM I’ve heard where I’ve felt it is a genuine upgrade to IER-Z1R (in terms of IEM’s going for a similar sound)

But it’s also 3 times the price…

Ha ha ha, mate just looking at the list of IEMs in your sig has my mortgage screaming out in pain, or was that my left kidney??