[edwardsean]

I also went down the physical mod route but no matter how carefully I adjusted the material it never worked out well. It seemed like whatever I gained in damping unwanted frequencies/resonance, also took away positive spectral characteristics as well. Even at its best, adding material in this DIY way is such a blunt tool for a precise problem. 
 
Sonarworks is the answer, providing a surgically precise solution.
 
@RudeWolf I totally understand Sonarwork's is best understood as a filter, but I do think that in trying to explain it to the audiophile community EQ is still the best reference point. If DSP is divided up generally between time-based and gain-based effects, it fits in the latter. And then if gain-based effects are divided between EQs and compressor/limiters, it fits best under the former. It is a broad designation, but for that reason it is able to communicate to a broader group. From there you could subdivide again between crossover/filters and EQs with sliders and snaking lines. 

 

[fjrabon]

Yeah, to me, the great thing about sonarworks is that it allowed me to stop making compromises to "fix" sound signature responses issues in my gear. Because I now have a neutral starting point, I can focus on building the rest of my system on raw ability.

I no longer need "amp synergy" to add bass or smooth out treble peaks or anything else. I can just focus on dynamics, resolution, soundstage, lack of distortion/grain/boomyness. Building a chain has gone from needing pieces to fit just right to simply getting great gear. My rig is simpler and has never sounded better. I don't need to pick a tube with mediocre dynamics because I need the treble roll off because the Hd800 has too much treble.

It really is amazing how much easier it is and how much better things are when you're starting your system from a neutral reference point.

 

[edwardsean]

Yeah, to me, the great thing about sonarworks is that it allowed me to stop making compromises to "fix" sound signature responses issues in my gear. Because I now have a neutral starting point, I can focus on building the rest of my system on raw ability.

I no longer need "amp synergy" to add bass or smooth out treble peaks or anything else. I can just focus on dynamics, resolution, soundstage, lack of distortion/grain/boomyness. Building a chain has gone from needing pieces to fit just right to simply getting great gear. My rig is simpler and has never sounded better. I don't need to pick a tube with mediocre dynamics because I need the treble roll off because the Hd800 has too much treble.

It really is amazing how much easier it is and how much better things are when you're starting your system from a neutral reference point.

That's really insightful. Traditional wisdom has always aimed at assembling that great chain of synergistic gear. However, the process is haphazard and imprecise. It would be a different matter if you had pieces being custom built to work together. Instead, what you have is the serendipity and "romance" of headfi: reading, exploring, and mix and match experimenting. 
 
It is fun, but I've always taken a different approach and chained similar gear together rather than complementary gear. I always look for components that have the mix of sonic characteristics I value and add these to others like them. There is a certain kind of synergy when two pieces fit together by balancing either other out, and there is a different kind when they fit because they're so alike. 
 
I think this dovetails from what fjrabon posted. Once you have a neutral transducer you can eliminate the need for making up deficiencies and concentrate on performance. Alongside performance you can pursue your personal taste in a more pure and positive process. 
 
Without exaggeration, new products like sonarworks really make this a golden age for audiophiles.

 

[DivineCurrent]

  
Linear phase is a property of a filter, where the phase response of the filter is a linear function of frequency. The result is that all frequency components of the input signal are shifted in time (usually delayed) by the same constant amount, which is referred to as the phase delay. And consequently, there is no phase distortion due to the time delay of frequencies relative to one another.
 
 
 
Pre-ringing or pre-echo. If you're listening to material with many isolated transients - say percussive music, I'd recommend sticking to minimum phase. Latency can also make movie watching hard and games unplayable.
 
And studio guys need low latency only when doing live stuff. Other usecases can be compensated for high latency.

Commenting on the pre-ringing effect of linear phase, I've done a little experimenting with hard snare hits and bass kicks repeated playing with both the minimum phase and and linear phase settings. Not only could I not hear any pre-ringing or echo, but I analyzed the waveform of the sonarworks output, and there wasn't the slightest bit of waveform difference between the two phase settings. Now, I could experiment with other lower pitched drum sounds, but from what I'm seeing, there seems to be hardly any difference made by the phase settings, if any. Now, if you were doing mastering/mixing work, it's a different story I guess, since you are constantly increasing/decreasing frequencies.

EDIT: Sorry, I recorded it the wrong way, and there is a very VERY small difference between the two waveforms. However, the difference is so small, that it is not audible at all. There probably is a little bit of pre-ringing, but I cant hear it even with the volume painfully high.

 

[Bern2]

Thank you Karl at Sonarworks for the videos on the pieces needed for folks like me.  (page 17 of this thread).  Allowed me to keep using iTunes which I'm familiar with.  I didn't work quite as fast as you did in the video....thank God for the ability to pause!
 
I was using EqualizerAPO with the HD800's, but never got it to the point where I was happy.
 
Now I'm happy.    Lovely product.
 
Bern
 
Using an old HP laptop with windows7/64bit.  iTunes...Teac Ha-501....HD800. 

 

[fjrabon]

 

   
Linear phase is a property of a filter, where the phase response of the filter is a linear function of frequency. The result is that all frequency components of the input signal are shifted in time (usually delayed) by the same constant amount, which is referred to as the phase delay. And consequently, there is no phase distortion due to the time delay of frequencies relative to one another.
 
 
 
Pre-ringing or pre-echo. If you're listening to material with many isolated transients - say percussive music, I'd recommend sticking to minimum phase. Latency can also make movie watching hard and games unplayable.
 
And studio guys need low latency only when doing live stuff. Other usecases can be compensated for high latency.

Commenting on the pre-ringing effect of linear phase, I've done a little experimenting with hard snare hits and bass kicks repeated playing with both the minimum phase and and linear phase settings. Not only could I not hear any pre-ringing or echo, but I analyzed the waveform of the sonarworks output, and there wasn't the slightest bit of waveform difference between the two phase settings. Now, I could experiment with other lower pitched drum sounds, but from what I'm seeing, there seems to be hardly any difference made by the phase settings, if any. Now, if you were doing mastering/mixing work, it's a different story I guess, since you are constantly increasing/decreasing frequencies.
  EDIT: Sorry, I recorded it the wrong way, and there is a very VERY small difference between the two waveforms. However, the difference is so small, that it is not audible at all. There probably is a little bit of pre-ringing, but I cant hear it even with the volume painfully high.

if I understand it correctly, it's at the nyquist frequency and thus shouldn't be audible itself, though on some systems it could theoretically cause distortion that is audible.  However, I haven't found this to be an issue.

 

[thecrow]

  Hey guys!
 
We just made vids on how to set up system wide calibration on both of the major platforms!
 

 

Download and install:

Soundflower – free audio system extension that allows applications to pass audio to other applications

Pedalboard 2 – plugin chainer

 

 

Download and install:

VB Audio Cable – connects audio applications together with Virtual Audio Device

Pedalboard 2 – plugin chainer

i just followed these instructions on my mac so as to use ref 3 when using my tidal app but wondering if ref 3 is actually on or off
 
can i see that somehow?
how can i bring up the sonarworks interface so i can tweak it?

 

[Bern2]

 
i just followed these instructions on my mac so as to use ref 3 when using my tidal app but wondering if ref 3 is actually on or off
 
can i see that somehow?
how can i bring up the sonarworks interface so i can tweak it?

Open pedalboard2.....reference3_x64 shows up for me on the tool bar...but I'm on a PC.
 
Hope you figured it out.  

 

[thecrow]

Open pedalboard2.....reference3_x64 shows up for me on the tool bar...but I'm on a PC.

Hope you figured it out.  

I'll go back tonight and give another crack from the beginning

During the process ahiikd i be choosing (from memory here) ch2 or ch64?

Also I think there was am option of vst or plug in somewhere in this process.

And did sonarworks come with an uninstaller? As i was thinking to totally uninstall and reinstall. As when i uninstall software i dont like loose ends

Ta

 

[thecrow]

ok - all good as i feel i've figured it all out
 
thanks
 

  Open pedalboard2.....reference3_x64 shows up for me on the tool bar...but I'm on a PC.
 
Hope you figured it out.  

 

[Bern2]

 
ok - all good as i feel i've figured it all out
 
thanks
 

Great....really like it with the HD800's.  Big difference for me.  I could never quite get it with trying to manually EQ it.
 
There are some latency controls in pedalboard2 if you are having audio buffer issues.  

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Some of the best sound I've ever heard in my 45 years of being an audiophile if not the very best.

 

[SodaBoy]

Agreed phoenixdogfan. I remember when I trialed the average profile with my HD650, I was already very impressed by it. I later sent my HD800 from Canada all the way to Latvia for an individualized calibration, it came back and the sound was perfect in every sense to me.
 
Here is my advice to people out there:
 
Try the plugin, the average profiles are not as accurate as the individualized profiles, but it will tell you if the reference curve works for you. If you like it, you should consider getting an individualized calibration, with all the attendant suggestions below.
 
Buy a headphone with low distortion, good power handling, and a reasonable price. I recommend the HE400S: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE400S.pdf
 
It's inexpensive at $299 USD, has low distortion and strong power handling evidenced by the THD+n chart at 90dB and 100dB. Its FR is linear and relatively absent of steep peaks and valleys. It will take an EQ very well.
 
Send your choice of headphone to Sonarworks for an individualized calibration, the cost of the service itself is almost nothing as it includes return shipping, I don't think they even make a profit on this. Majority of your costs will be shipping on your end.
 
When you get your headphones back, you'll receive a profile that is channel matched and calibrated closely to their reference curve, and in my case I also requested and received charts with measured THD and a CSD waterfall plot. That is very useful and I couldn't get this anywhere else.
 
Option B:
 
Get the pre-calibrated headphones from Sonarworks directly, this will save you money and time, but in my opinion planars will take an EQ best, and they have no pre-calibrated planars. You could argue that the advantages of planars are marginal, and almost entirely in the reproduction of low bass, but I feel it is worth it especially with a capable and cheap planar like the HE400S. People may ask, if even cheap planars are so good, why did I get a HD800. I chose the HD800 because it matches or exceeds planars in everything except power handling, and is also light and comfortable, however it costed $1300 new, while the HE400S manages to come very close at only a small fraction of the price. I don't think any dynamic exceeds the HE400S in its price range, although the Fidelio X2 does come close. The HD650 is also comparable but costs more and suffers from distortion in the lower frequencies.
 
 
Now with all this said, I will just ramble on a bit more about my personal experiences with audio. *Warning stream of consciousness ahead*
 
I have owned and trialed high end headphones, and mid end headphones, this goes for IEMs as well. I feel that a portion of this hobby has become like alchemy; people try and buy endless combinations and never know what they will get, maybe they will transmute gold, I don't know, but at least it is fun for some. I don't mix and match multiple headphones, DACs, amps, and interconnects because in my opinion the results are dubious and it will cost me a lot of money. I only have one main system for each living area, and I am only concerned about the output. I think Sonarworks is perfect for this, you get reproducible results across a wide variety of headphones, you have a free trial and you know what you get in advance. I have been using the individualized profile for more than a year, and I have been completely satisfied by it. The only thing on my mind now is to get the rest of my headphones calibrated.
 
If only there was a solution like Sonarworks for IEMs and smartphones, I would be over the moon. A good IEM with a single full range dynamic driver, calibrated, would be better than dealing with the wild goose chase that is the IEM market right now. However, the IEM market is fragmented, too many models to measure, the IEM compensation curve would be different, and the professional market is non-existent, leaving only quibbling audiophiles, moreover there are no Android players that can host VST plugins that I know of, nor is Sonarworks a media player. So it's a pipedream.

 

[RudeWolf]

  Get the pre-calibrated headphones from Sonarworks directly, this will save you money and time, but in my opinion planars will take an EQ best, and they have no pre-calibrated planars. You could argue that the advantages of planars are marginal, and almost entirely in the reproduction of low bass, but I feel it is worth it especially with a capable and cheap planar like the HE400S.

 
Contact us and we can buy and calibrate just about any headphone for you. Just keep in mind that Audezes will be more expensive in EU, but Hifimans should be pretty same-ish. Oppo also seems to want an extra 100EUR for their PM-3 in EU. Pretty sure, we'd be able to arrange you buying 2nd hand here in HF and typing our lab as the shipment address. In some cases that might be an interesting option.
 
As for planars - you are right about the power handling, it really helps in calibrating. Most of the time calibration means pumping extra juice in the drivers, so it elevates THD. I don't have any data for confirming this, but planars usually have time domain tradeoffs compared to dynamics. Might be the magnet sandwich mangling up the wavefronts, I don't know for sure. The result is that imaging usually isn't as good.
 
 

  If only there was a solution like Sonarworks for IEMs and smartphones, I would be over the moon. A good IEM with a single full range dynamic driver, calibrated, would be better than dealing with the wild goose chase that is the IEM market right now.

 
We have done extensive research in calibrating IEM's. On paper it looks even easier than regular on/over-ear headphones, due to direct coupling with the ear drum one wouldn't need to fiddle with compensation curves.
 
The reality, however is much more difficult. We have the equipment to do the calibration, but the results are highly inconsistent due to human factor. Different people wear IEM's very differently and tips change the picture a lot as well. There are even folks who prefer a shallow leaky fit, others insert incorrectly and get the infamous high pressure pocket which flexes both the driver and the eardrum. We can't really tell how our calibration will translate to the end user out there.
 
 

  If only there was a solution like Sonarworks for IEMs and smartphones, [...] there are no Android players that can host VST plugins that I know of, nor is Sonarworks a media player. So it's a pipedream.

 
What if I told you that we're in late stage beta testing for an Android music player that has baked in headphone calibration?

 

[MattTCG]

 

 
 
 
What if I told you that we're in late stage beta testing for an Android music player that has baked in headphone calibration?

 
Well, I for one would be very excited about that. Supporting which headphones?