[hekeli]

  You may want to start by just pressing the "optimum" button, and going from there.

 
Yeah that's a good option too. There's so many buttons, one can try all of them. 

 
It's funny how I've gone from optimum to pure flat to 25% wet... a constantly evolving search for the most pleasing sound. And sometimes some metal etc is so crappy that actually using the Grado curve sounds excellent lol..

 

[edwardsean]

   
Yeah that's a good option too. There's so many buttons, one can try all of them. 

 
It's funny how I've gone from optimum to pure flat to 25% wet... a constantly evolving search for the most pleasing sound. And sometimes some metal etc is so crappy that actually using the Grado curve sounds excellent lol..

Hekeli is right, definitely worth exploring all the functions to tune the sound to your liking. 
 
Just to clarify the optimum button has to do with adjusting the frequency spectrum post correction. The optimum button will automatically set the controls to most closely resemble the frequency characteristics of the phone before adjustment. 
 
Put simply, after sonarworks flattens the HD800's curve, it tilts the bass end back down. This might solve Remedy's problem with soundstage by making it less "thick."  

 

[Yoga]

Yeah mix to taste.
 
Having said that, an EQ does not change the empirical soundstage capabilities of the headphone. That's transducer based.
 
As others have said, fuller mids, higher bass and lowered peak treble will make it seem that way. Although it's actually the same :¬)
 
Perception, and all that.

 

[fjrabon]

trying out sonarworks with the average hd800 profile it comes with and the universal profile from this thread. running an hd800 off an uber bifrost and bottlehead crack w/ speedball.

let me start by saying I don't use EQ's or even understand how they work, but regardless I'll continue. 

99% of the comments in this thread with the hd800 say that it lifts a kind of veil, but to me it seems like when i have the calibration on, the soundstage seems smaller? not sure if it's lowering the volume of sounds that are kind of ambient, but in almost everything i've listened to with it on, it just seems like the soundstage isn't as massive and encompassing as with it on. 

anyone want to chime in and tell me where i'm wrong or what i'm not understanding?

My guess here, and it's just a guess, is that since sonarworks roughly triples the current required for your headphones, that the BHML is having trouble supplying all that current. The mainline isn't that good when you start getting to inefficient (inefficient isn't the same thing as high impedance) headphones, and the HD800 becomes pretty inefficient with sonarworks, since the baseline adjustment lowers the line level by about 8.6 dB. Lack of current can cause a degredation in clarity that maybe comes off as a smaller soundstage. This is multiplied by the fact that sonarworks requires you to turn your amp up nearly twice as loud, thus doubling any lack of background blackness the amp has, which again may lessen the perception of soundstage.

You can tell if this is a problem if you apply the profile and then hit the bypass button, which disables the EQ, but keeps the level adjustment. Since the problem I am talking about comes from the level adjustment, it would stay regardless of whether or not the calibration profile was running.

But soundstage perception is such a wonky thing it's almost impossible to say what it truly is without me hearing your system with your ears. For example for me crossfeed causes soundstage to increase in size. But for some it causes it to decrease.

 

[MattTCG]

Glad to see that this thread is getting some traction with the community. Great software!! 

 

[fjrabon]

One point, everybody who is using this for audiophile purposes should be using linear phase. The other two settings are more for people doing live in studio tracking, who can't deal with a substantial delay. But if you're just listening to music, a playback delay isn't an issue at all. The linear phase setting takes more CPU but is MUCH higher fidelity.

 

[MattTCG]

One point, everybody who is using this for audiophile purposes should be using linear phase. The other two settings are more for people doing live in studio tracking, who can't deal with a substantial delay. But if you're just listening to music, a playback delay isn't an issue at all. The linear phase setting takes more CPU but is MUCH higher fidelity.

 
Thanks for the heads up on linear phase! 

 

[RudeWolf]

One point, everybody who is using this for audiophile purposes should be using linear phase. The other two settings are more for people doing live in studio tracking, who can't deal with a substantial delay. But if you're just listening to music, a playback delay isn't an issue at all. The linear phase setting takes more CPU but is MUCH higher fidelity.

 
Depends, really. The gist of the matter is that all forms of EQ have some pros and cons. Phase linear doesn't introduce phase distortion, but it's by design very high latency and introduces pre-ringing. Minimum phase is very low latency (can be zero latency), but introduces phase distortion and usually the calibration is less precise.
 
With that said - both methods yield tremendous improvements, compared to stock frequency response.

 

[fjrabon]

   
Depends, really. The gist of the matter is that all forms of EQ have some pros and cons. Phase linear doesn't introduce phase distortion, but it's by design very high latency and introduces pre-ringing. Minimum phase is very low latency (can be zero latency), but introduces phase distortion and usually the calibration is less precise.
 
With that said - both methods yield tremendous improvements, compared to stock frequency response.

Yeah, I totally agree, but is there any reason an audiophile user should care about latency (genuinely asking, because maybe I'm overlooking something as to why audiophiles should care about latency, I can't think of anything)?  I get that pro-studio users generally can't have ANY noticeable latency, but is that really a concern for people who are just listening to music and trying to get the highest fidelity possible?  TO me, going from minimum phase to linear phase took the signal from sounding like any normal, but painstakingly done, parametric EQ to being the transparent window that linear sounds like to me.

 

[DivineCurrent]

Can someone elaborate what exactly is linear phase?

 

[RudeWolf]

Can someone elaborate what exactly is linear phase?

 
Linear phase is a property of a filter, where the phase response of the filter is a linear function of frequency. The result is that all frequency components of the input signal are shifted in time (usually delayed) by the same constant amount, which is referred to as the phase delay. And consequently, there is no phase distortion due to the time delay of frequencies relative to one another.
 
 

 
Yeah, I totally agree, but is there any reason an audiophile user should care about latency (genuinely asking, because maybe I'm overlooking something as to why audiophiles should care about latency, I can't think of anything)?  I get that pro-studio users generally can't have ANY noticeable latency, but is that really a concern for people who are just listening to music and trying to get the highest fidelity possible?  TO me, going from minimum phase to linear phase took the signal from sounding like any normal, but painstakingly done, parametric EQ to being the transparent window that linear sounds like to me.

 
Pre-ringing or pre-echo. If you're listening to material with many isolated transients - say percussive music, I'd recommend sticking to minimum phase. Latency can also make movie watching hard and games unplayable.
 
And studio guys need low latency only when doing live stuff. Other usecases can be compensated for high latency.

 

[koven]

im a new EQ believer thanks to sonarworks. i never EQ anything i use, mainly due to my own ignorance, but thought id try this free trial and ive been very surprised/happy with how much it refines the sound. i will end up purchasing when the trial is over. wish i had an hd800 to try after reading all the comments here, and i almost bought one recently until the focal elear hype started, think ill go w/ that as my next headphones to the collection. 

 

[MattTCG]

I've put off EQ for years because I was never able to get the results that I had hoped for. But Sonarworks has put professional level EQ in the hands of end users for a very reasonable price. The software with the Hd800 remains one of my favorite listening experiences and a hidden gem around these parts. 
 
One request, please add more headphones to the calibration list!! 

 

[RudeWolf]

Well, I'm not sure if we fall under the EQ category. When I read EQ, I imagine many sliders or a squiggly line to snake-charm. It's more of a digital filter/crossover for headphones.

 

[PATB]

I have been demoing the Sonarworks plug-in with Windows Vista/jRiver for my HD800 and HD650. 
 
My HD650 is 10+ years old, but with new pads.  I bought the HD800 new a year ago (it came direct from Senn -- so has a high SN; don't have it right now).  I drove both headphones with a balanced tube amp, SinglePower SDS-XLR (HD800 with Cardas Clear and HD650 with Zu Mobius).  Source is a TEAC UD-301.  I tried different plug-in settings but ended up preferring the defaults (flat response, 100% dry/wet etc.) for both headphones. 
 
For the HD650, the plug-in does not make a big difference to my old ears.  I notice increased bass and more sparkling, but grainy, treble.  But as far as overall tonality, the plug-in does not change the HD650 much.  I prefer the HD650 without the plug-in.  YMMV. 
 
For the HD800, I can't help but wonder if the people selling slightly used HD800 for $700-$800 tried Sonarworks.  It makes a HUGE and VERY WELCOME improvement.  With Sonarworks, the HD800 has very defined/tight bass but with restrained highs.  At first I thought the highs are muted but, after hours of listening, I realized that all the resolution is still there -- I just had to adjust my perception.  The tonality of the HD800 with the plug-in is now much closer to the HD650 without the plug-in, but on steroids. 
 
Prior to the plug-in, I was using the anax mod with the HD800.  I of course can't directly A/B the anax mod with the plug-in, but the anax mod sounds more like the plug-in with the optimum response.  Except without the bass of the plug-in.  I much prefer the plug-in to the anax mod.
 
Highly recommended for HD800 users.  For other headphones, there's always the free trial.  Thanks @RudeWolf !