[sridhar3]

Quote:

wow.... what. i just ran across this thread and things like this is exactly why i dont really surf the forum anymore.
 
so it boils down to whos at fault
 
the wire maker, middle man (cyro), or the retailer + middleman....  i dont know anyone personally but if i had to think who in this chain is at fault.. it would be the wire maker.  Craig and Lee have very niche markets.  if they try to pull something like this, on a group of ppl like this, they wouldnt be in the business for long.
 
you ppl saying that it has to be them, posting personal emails, and committing libel against craig and lee based on... well.... nothing.
 
ive been on this site for a short time.. a lil over a year, and in that time.. it seems the ppl and content has gone to hell.

Feels like everybody's on a witch hunt now.  How is finding a blameworthy party and making them look bad going to improve the situation.  Easy answer, it's not.
 
I think everybody needs to take some quiet time, calm down, and wait for the official lab results.  If the cable is not the same as what Lee and Craig thought it was when they sold it, I'm sure they'll do what they need to do to rectify the situation.
 
Parrots, parroting what you've been saying for your last three or four posts over and over again isn't changing anything or helping the situation.  Proving that you're right and they're wrong only functions to appease your ego, but doesn't do anything about the actual problem.  I don't think your head is going to explode or you're going to have a fatal episode of internal bleeding if the cable problem doesn't get resolved overnight.  Things are being blown way out of proportion here.  I hate to say it, but it's still JUST a cable.  When you put things into perspective, doesn't it seem ridiculous to be at somebody's throat over a thin piece of metal wrapped in plastic?
 
Once the lab results are back, Lee and Craig will probably start to speak to their wire supplier, and will also simultaneously start to figure out how to best serve the customers who have received a defective product.  These two processes will likely occur in parallel and concurrently.  Just take pause, put down your axes/torches/pitchforks, and give these guys a chance to react.  They're obviously not out to "get" anybody, so why is everybody out to "get" them?

 

[jp11801]

Folks twice now 2 moderators have asked that the thread hold off on accusations while Lee and Craig sort this out and twice now it's been pretty much ignored.  Please do not ignore this third request. 

 

[DaBomb77766]

Guys, give the ad hominem attacks a rest.  This is about the cables, nothing more, nothing less.  Most of us here could honestly care less if there was a misunderstanding with email conversations you had, and going to great lengths to defend yourself by attacking the other certainly isn't helping.
 
If you really have such big issues with each other, then go and do the appropriate tests yourself.  Once you've confirmed the exact cause of the problem, you can go making accusations then.  But right now, just attacking each other like this, it's not going to help anyone.

 

[Kunlun]

 
Quote:

 

Indeed.  I am taking this seriously, if there is a problem, I need to fix it. 
 
I have been very open and upfront about who I have had test the wire thus far (http://cascaderefining.com/), who did a chemical test which showed the wire as high purity silver.  However, the tech did not feel confident enough of the results of the acid test to state any type of purity level.  He also explained to me that since the silver was pure that the x-ray flourescence machine they have was not designed to really give a stable purity reading either as it works better when there are more trace elements, not just a single pure element.  A metallurgist would probably understand what he told me, but I blanked out.
 
AuRIC Labs (http://www.auriclabs.com/) has the wire now, and is going to do a test that involves a mass spec, and some other things the metallurgist told me that went in and out of my brain.  He assured me that it is the best way to assess the purity of the wire I brought to him.  He is going to provide me with two assays, one for the new Eclipse wire, and one for TWag v2.  These will be certified, signed assays, by a respected lab, and should serve to placate anyone's fears that they are getting what they pay for.
 
I will also be talking with metallurgists and plastics experts about why a silver wire would turn colors.  Craig is also exploring this as well.
 
Now, if the wire doesn't come back as pure as was spec'd, then opens up a new phase where I will have to have some serious "talks" with my supplier, to solve any problems...but that is between me and them.  While I am dealing with that, Craig and I will have to figure out the best way to address the members of the HeadFi community who have purchased this wire.
 
So, this is not an overnight process.  The first thing I need is the assay reports, then I can go from there.
 
If there is a lesson to be learned from all of this, it is to have every batch of new wire tested, if any claims of purity are made.  I, for one, will be sure to have every single new run of wire assayed before I put it up for sale.
 
I am not perfect, and I make mistakes.  However, I try my best to make things right if I screw them up.
 
Peace,
 
Lee

Great.
 
My apologies for any inflammatory language.

 

[monoethylene]

Fully appreciated!! Nice effort so far..

 

[AVU]

 
Remember when photographing predominately white objects to increase your exposure time by 2-3 full f-stops.  (sorry, pedagogical instincts of a photo instructor)

 

[guitarplayer]

Thanks for the photos.  These will help Craig and I to figure out the problem, as I don't have any here that has done that, a good picture is very helpful. 
 
Just be be clear:
 
The discoloration appears on only one conductor of the twisted pair from the split up to the over-molded end? 
The discoloration then spirals around one of each of the two conductors of the twisted pair from the over-molded end to the split, then stops? 
The other conductor of each twisted pair after the split is not showing the spiral discoloration, but is showing some spots of discoloration? 
And this discoloration is only appearing on the products with the over-molded ends?
 
I appreciate the extra info, all info helps.  We'll get to the bottom of this.
 
Peace,
 
Lee

 

[guitarplayer]

Okay, thanks for the additional info.  Every bit helps.
 
Peace,
 
Lee

 

[mikemercer]

the mark of a genuinely concerned businessman here (last response).  Wow - you guys get NUTS.  I think things like this should be settled through personal communication, you know, as we used to do before all this thread madness??  I can't speak for other peoples experiences, but I know both men here (at Cryo and Whiplash) personally, and I cannot imagine either of them trying to get over on their customers.  I do know people in this business who do, with regularity (and its surprising just how successful they are) shill snake oil without losing sleep.  These guys are not those types of men - and I've literally grown up in this business, and the people I consider true friends do not comprise a very long list - These guys being among them.  So, like I said - I have NO experience with this particular incident, or what's being tossed around here, but I do know I've never experienced a problem where I would call their character into question. 
 
I'm about growing this industry - and I think if a problem is discovered - then take it direct to the people themselves.  I just know that's what I would do.

 

[SACD-Man]

Quote:

the mark of a genuinely concerned businessman here (last response).  Wow - you guys get NUTS.  I think things like this should be settled through personal communication, you know, as we used to do before all this thread madness??  I can't speak for other peoples experiences, but I know both men here (at Cryo and Whiplash) personally, and I cannot imagine either of them trying to get over on their customers.  I do know people in this business who do, with regularity (and its surprising just how successful they are) shill snake oil without losing sleep.  These guys are not those types of men - and I've literally grown up in this business, and the people I consider true friends do not comprise a very long list - These guys being among them.  So, like I said - I have NO experience with this particular incident, or what's being tossed around here, but I do know I've never experienced a problem where I would call their character into question. 
 
I'm about growing this industry - and I think if a problem is discovered - then take it direct to the people themselves.  I just know that's what I would do.

Thanks Mike!!
 
Like Lee and I have said on separate occasions that we will take this situation head on and will not run from it. There is lots to discuss and everyone does have an unique situation. Often manufacturers like Lee and I think that what we do have no affect to sound and the results are not worth the investment. Often we are targeted because of this. Not saying this thread is an example of it, however there are lots of you that can contest to our dedication to this industry and certainly the results. If everyone knew how much it costs to produce these products, and the amount of efforts put in, most of you would understand why Lee and I take this very seriously. 
 
Anyways, not trying to beat a dead horse, but I CAN speak for both of us that we will have more information on this. 
 
Also like Mike said, please contact me direct with questions and concerns. csanborn@whiplashaudio.com
 
Craig
 

 

[Xymordos]

I thought silver doesn't even oxidize at room temperature? It only reacts with sulfur in the air doesn't it?

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

I thought silver doesn't even oxidize at room temperature? It only reacts with sulfur in the air doesn't it?

This would be relevant if it weren't for the fact these are turning green.  And looking at wikipedia, it can react with a few other elements too.

 

[paulybatz]

I do not think that pure silver should turn green, copper does.
Quote:

someone was just selling a Twag on the marketplace section that had turned green.  I think this happens to all silver regardless.

 

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

I do not think that pure silver should turn green, copper does.


 

Silver should turn black, not green, when it oxidizes.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Anything happening with this, surely after a month there should be a definitive answer? I really liked the look of whiplash's gear and was considering ordering an Imod but after reading this thread and the two above about customer service in general I'm less inclined