[Camano]

For what it's worth .. the A16 does give us a health status of the the internal microSD card.

In my case going to Menu->Updates/About and scrolling all the way to the bottom I see a "A16 Internal Flash Health" screen where all numbers are zero - the dates and the health percentage. I'm on firmware 2.12.

Reading the 2.0 manual, page 46, it says "A history of the last four 1% changes is shown (this feature is operational only for certain A16 hardware configurations)" and the example image shows a date and 99% on the top line, the rest are zeros. So I guess mine is still 100%, since it hasn't had a 1% change yet. Or my hardware configuration doesn't support it - how would I know?

 

[Eich1eeF]

[...] Or my hardware configuration doesn't support it - how would I know?

Ideally, the option would only be available if it is supported. I assume that "supported" means that the A16 in question has the newer type of SD card installed. The earlier ones had SanDisk cards (a photo of mine is below), if I'm not mistaken, and I seem to recall that the newer ones use Toshiba/Kioxia. The easiest way to tell is probably to simply open your A16.

 

[zdjh22]

Ideally, the option would only be available if it is supported. I assume that "supported" means that the A16 in question has the newer type of SD card installed. The earlier ones had SanDisk cards (a photo of mine is below), if I'm not mistaken, and I seem to recall that the newer ones use Toshiba/Kioxia. The easiest way to tell is probably to simply open your A16.

Ouch, I see a coin-cell type battery just to the left, with a spot-welded contact. Anyone know anything about this? If it’s similar to cells on PC motherboards, the lifetime will be limited to maybe 7 years (at best). With any luck in the design, the only thing the battery keeps alive is the clock, but if it is needed for some non-volatile memory that stores configuration items, that looks like pain waiting for us down the road.

 

[Ateefi]

Hi all, i have been reading my way through this thread, only got about a quarter the way through. The A16 has got me intrigued that i was about to pull the trigger on the one in the classifieds but its sold. Just have a couple of question is it worth the £4500 asked for? and do you see it lasting a few years with out going obsolete

I Know smyth research had the A8 prior so they have been going for a good few years.

Stupid question but thought i would ask before forking out money for something so unique.
Probably going to have to sell a couple of things though.

 

[gimlet]

It depends on your use case. I live in an apartment, and my wife’s tolerance for hi fi, not to mention movies and music, is very limited! I first saw the Smyth A8 in use at Dolby studios in San Francisco which convinced me to buy an A16.

So I justify the cost (I didn’t pay the current price) as follows:

1. If you use headphones on a daily basis, the A16 is the closest you will get to the real thing, even in stereo mode. It is uncanny how realistic virtual speakers appear in the listening space.

2. If you lack the budget or space for a full home cinema - you can get up to 24 top quality virtual speakers optimised for your ears, and your choice of the best speakers and studio acoustics.

3. It’s much cheaper than a divorce!

On the other hand, this is pro equipment with an A4 downloadable manual of over 200 pages (English only). It is complex and challenging to set up, but thanks to this community, there is a lot of advice available and even some YT videos.

If my A16 expired tomorrow, I would definitely look for a s/h replacement - as normal headphones / amps can’t deliver anything like the quality of the A16 “out of your head” experience. And the A16 is the only system which has convinced me that the Sennheiser 800 can actually deliver real bass, alongside its other qualities.

As to the price mentioned - there are some early s/h examples out there for upwards of €2500 and sometimes even less. My A16 is an early model with 16 virtual speaker channels, but sounds amazing, and runs current firmware, with DTS-X and Auro 3D and a number of different virtual speaker models (PRIRs for Dutch & Dutch, KEF, B&W etc) - several of which were sourced from members of this community.

My only major reservation is that Smyth is a small boutique engineering company, based in Northern Ireland, with limited resources. That said, they have fixed my issues and responded promptly to support questions.

Good luck!

 

[gimlet]

It depends on your use case. I live in an apartment, and my wife’s tolerance for hi fi, not to mention movies and music, is very limited! I first saw the Smyth A8 in use at Dolby studios in San Francisco which convinced me to buy an A16.

So I justify the cost (I didn’t pay the current price) as follows:

1. If you use headphones on a daily basis, the A16 is the closest you will get to the real thing, even in stereo mode. It is uncanny how realistic virtual speakers appear in the listening space.

2. If you lack the budget or space for a full home cinema - you can get up to 24 top quality virtual speakers optimised for your ears, and your choice of the best speakers and studio acoustics.

3. It’s much cheaper than a divorce!

On the other hand, this is pro equipment with an A4 downloadable manual of over 200 pages (English only). It is complex and challenging to set up, but thanks to this community, there is a lot of advice available and even some YT videos.

If my A16 expired tomorrow, I would definitely look for a s/h replacement - as normal headphones / amps can’t deliver anything like the quality of the A16 “out of your head” experience. And the A16 is the only system which has convinced me that the Sennheiser 800 can actually deliver real bass, alongside its other qualities.

As to the price mentioned - there are some early s/h examples out there for upwards of €2500 and sometimes even less. My A16 is an early model with 16 virtual speaker channels, but sounds amazing, and runs current firmware, with DTS-X and Auro 3D and a number of different virtual speaker models (PRIRs for Dutch & Dutch, KEF, B&W etc) - several of which were sourced from members of this community.

My only major reservation is that Smyth is a small boutique engineering company, based in Northern Ireland, with limited resources. That said, they have fixed my issues and responded promptly to support questions.

Good luck!

One more point - if you are prepared to pay over £4000, I would consider going directly to Smyth and ordering new. You should get the benefit of a warranty and can also use the UK’s distance selling and credit card laws which give you additional protection.

 

[Ateefi]

One more point - if you are prepared to pay over £4000, I would consider going directly to Smyth and ordering new. You should get the benefit of a warranty and can also use the UK’s distance selling and credit card laws which give you additional protection.

Thanks, my justification is really that I don't have enough space for a full set up, I've already started to read the manual before I have even fully committed and your right it is a bit daunting.

 

[Litlgi74]

Thanks, my justification is really that I don't have enough space for a full set up, I've already started to read the manual before I have even fully committed and your right it is a bit daunting.

There are many knowledgeable people here who all share the same passion for the A16... Most of which will be glad to answer your questions.. Even those at a novice level.

It is true that the A16 has a bit of a learning curve... But once you get everything set up... If becomes plug and play.

FYI... I was able to pick up both of my machines on the used market for around $2,500 each. They were both unused and still in the sealed boxes... But like @gimlet said... As a second owner, the machines come with no warranty. Unfortunately, I did have to send one of my machines to Ireland for repair. Shipping costs were around $400.. And 3 months turnaround time.

 

[zdjh22]

Hi all, i have been reading my way through this thread, only got about a quarter the way through. The A16 has got me intrigued that i was about to pull the trigger on the one in the classifieds but its sold. Just have a couple of question is it worth the £4500 asked for? and do you see it lasting a few years with out going obsolete

I Know smyth research had the A8 prior so they have been going for a good few years.

Stupid question but thought i would ask before forking out money for something so unique.
Probably going to have to sell a couple of things though.

I purchased my A16 new in June 2023. After 7 days of use, it failed ("Error Code 003") and I had to ship it back to Ireland for repair. I received it back in about two months.

Despite the high initial price, and the additional cost of shipping the unit for repair, and the cost of not having the A16 for a couple of months, I still do not regret the initial purchase. Plus, keep in mind, that because it was new hardware, my A16 couldn't measure PRIRs or HPEQs well (until last week), so it's been running at less than advertised capability for 7 months.

As you've already gathered from reading this thread, it is a very complicated and versatile device. Compared to what you'd spend for a full blown Atmos system - AVR plus speakers, plus other associated costs (for example, installing overhead speakers) - an A16 will deliver more functionality for less cost. You will have to either record your own PRIRs, or download others, or (best option) purchase professionally produced PRIRs, plus you'll need to measure your own HPEQ. Out of all of that you'll have a system that you can configure for essentially any virtual speaker layout up to 24 speakers, and render every common current multichannel format except for Sony's 360RA. You'll be able to compare quad configurations with side or rear virtual speakers, and be able to hear some recordings the way they were intended without having to move your home speakers around. With a listening partner you'll both be able to be in the sweet spot.

There's always a danger of obselescence with this sort of device. There are software only competitors like Virtuoso ($) or Impulcifer (free but needing measurement hardware). Sony or Apple could always decide to get into the business in a more serious way. If you search YouTube for "360vme MDR-MV1" the top result will be a 6-minute review from the 2023 NAMM show with the reporter having her HRTF measured with tiny in-ear microphones in a listening room and being amazed at the exact reproduction of the room audio in the Sony 360vme software. Eerily (and earily!) similar to analogous Smyth demos at audio shows. Currently Sony only markets expensive in-ear measurements at a few of their studios and targets professionals who want to mix surround music, but who knows, perhaps they'll market to the world (although I doubt it, since the average consumer isn't going to put up with a process that isn't going to be much better than what we use on an A16). Both Apple and Sony have personal HRTF estimation through the submission of photos of your head and ears, to be used with their proprietary software. It's also always possible that 360RA will take over from DTS-HD and Atmos as the preferred surround music technology, although at present it's only a streaming technology and it's not clear that Sony ever intends to produce physical media.

My biggest complaint and worry about my A16 is that, because it is a closed system, we are entirely at the mercy of a tiny Irish company that likely is on the edge of financial success and very much susceptible to having key personnel run over by a bus. Particularly for HPEQ files, but for PRIRs as well, there would be huge advantages to users if they would open the format specifications. Why on earth can't I tweak an HPEQ directly, but instead can only repair the ship in the bottle with manLOUD? I understand why PRIRs are encoded/encrypted - that's essential for protecting commercial producers - but why can't I fool with the contents of my personally produced PRIRs? We have a very astute user community, and promises that were made about the Realiser Exchange, such as the "merge files" capability that would allow you to personalize one PRIR with another, could likely be implemented by us (specifially, with an open PRIR specification we could compare a bare microphone PRIR with an in-ear version, and perhaps de-convolve the personal HRTF piece; for those who have measured their own PRIRs, imagine personalizing 3dSS PRIRs that you bought with your extracted HRTF and making them sound even better!).

 

[B Manoj Kumar]

May I ask here, if anyone plans to let go their Smyth Realiser. I am interested in buying one if the budget allows.
Thank you in advance.

 

[Ateefi]

I purchased my A16 new in June 2023. After 7 days of use, it failed ("Error Code 003") and I had to ship it back to Ireland for repair. I received it back in about two months.

Despite the high initial price, and the additional cost of shipping the unit for repair, and the cost of not having the A16 for a couple of months, I still do not regret the initial purchase. Plus, keep in mind, that because it was new hardware, my A16 couldn't measure PRIRs or HPEQs well (until last week), so it's been running at less than advertised capability for 7 months.

As you've already gathered from reading this thread, it is a very complicated and versatile device. Compared to what you'd spend for a full blown Atmos system - AVR plus speakers, plus other associated costs (for example, installing overhead speakers) - an A16 will deliver more functionality for less cost. You will have to either record your own PRIRs, or download others, or (best option) purchase professionally produced PRIRs, plus you'll need to measure your own HPEQ. Out of all of that you'll have a system that you can configure for essentially any virtual speaker layout up to 24 speakers, and render every common current multichannel format except for Sony's 360RA. You'll be able to compare quad configurations with side or rear virtual speakers, and be able to hear some recordings the way they were intended without having to move your home speakers around. With a listening partner you'll both be able to be in the sweet spot.

There's always a danger of obselescence with this sort of device. There are software only competitors like Virtuoso ($) or Impulcifer (free but needing measurement hardware). Sony or Apple could always decide to get into the business in a more serious way. If you search YouTube for "360vme MDR-MV1" the top result will be a 6-minute review from the 2023 NAMM show with the reporter having her HRTF measured with tiny in-ear microphones in a listening room and being amazed at the exact reproduction of the room audio in the Sony 360vme software. Eerily (and earily!) similar to analogous Smyth demos at audio shows. Currently Sony only markets expensive in-ear measurements at a few of their studios and targets professionals who want to mix surround music, but who knows, perhaps they'll market to the world (although I doubt it, since the average consumer isn't going to put up with a process that isn't going to be much better than what we use on an A16). Both Apple and Sony have personal HRTF estimation through the submission of photos of your head and ears, to be used with their proprietary software. It's also always possible that 360RA will take over from DTS-HD and Atmos as the preferred surround music technology, although at present it's only a streaming technology and it's not clear that Sony ever intends to produce physical media.

My biggest complaint and worry about my A16 is that, because it is a closed system, we are entirely at the mercy of a tiny Irish company that likely is on the edge of financial success and very much susceptible to having key personnel run over by a bus. Particularly for HPEQ files, but for PRIRs as well, there would be huge advantages to users if they would open the format specifications. Why on earth can't I tweak an HPEQ directly, but instead can only repair the ship in the bottle with manLOUD? I understand why PRIRs are encoded/encrypted - that's essential for protecting commercial producers - but why can't I fool with the contents of my personally produced PRIRs? We have a very astute user community, and promises that were made about the Realiser Exchange, such as the "merge files" capability that would allow you to personalize one PRIR with another, could likely be implemented by us (specifially, with an open PRIR specification we could compare a bare microphone PRIR with an in-ear version, and perhaps de-convolve the personal HRTF piece; for those who have measured their own PRIRs, imagine personalizing 3dSS PRIRs that you bought with your extracted HRTF and making them sound even better!).

thanks for your thoughts and insight, very interesting. I think that’s my concern is that it’s closed so your at the mercy of Smyth audio, although I do see a company like Apple or Sony doing something comparable in the near future, but maybe not to the extent or as complicated as smyth audio.

I will finish of this thread and the manual and hopefully by then, maybe pick up a used one if one comes available, if not then a new unit .

 

[noc1009]

Does anyone have experience getting the A16 to work with pc games on linux, like Shadow of the Tomb Raider? On windows 10 it seems there is a service called Windows Sonic Spatial Sound just for that. On linux one would probably need to enforce HDMI passthrough.

 

[sander99]

Does anyone have experience getting the A16 to work with pc games on linux, like Shadow of the Tomb Raider? On windows 10 it seems there is a service called Windows Sonic Spatial Sound just for that. On linux one would probably need to enforce HDMI passthrough.

I am not sure what you mean with "On windows 10 it seems there is a service called Windows Sonic Spatial Sound just for that.". If you mean for use in combination with the A16 then: no. Windows Sonic Spatial Sound tries to do something similar like the A16 does, but in a very primitive non-personalised way. You should definitely not use that in combination with the A16 (then you would do the same thing twice, of which one time very primitive).
I don't know what audio those games can output. If for example they can output bitstreamed atmos then that is what you would ideally want to pass on to the A16 unchanged.

At the risk of saying something obvious: The A16 gives you virtual speakers (in a virtual room) over headphones. You could just consider the A16 plus headphones as a virtual equivalent of a surround receiver plus multiple loudspeakers (in a room) and would use it in the same way. You would (normally) not send it signals that are somehow processed for the use of headphones: the A16 will do that itself, and it will do it (much, much) better. You should just send it discrete channels of audio intended to be played over loudspeakers, be it in a bitstreamed surround format or PCM (stereo or multichannel), and let the A16 take care of the rest.

 

[noc1009]

I am not sure what you mean with "On windows 10 it seems there is a service called Windows Sonic Spatial Sound just for that.". If you mean for use in combination with the A16 then: no. Windows Sonic Spatial Sound tries to do something similar like the A16 does, but in a very primitive non-personalised way. You should definitely not use that in combination with the A16 (then you would do the same thing twice, of which one time very primitive).
I don't know what audio those games can output. If for example they can output bitstreamed atmos then that is what you would ideally want to pass on to the A16 unchanged.

As far as I know these games output dolby atmos intended for home theaters, but I could be mistaken. From your answer I get that I need to enforce audio passthrough, like the setting in VNC media player. If anyone has an idea how that can get done please let me know.

 

[DenverW]

I was poking around the Smyth website as I get the urge every so often to just pay the difference between the preorder price and a unit right now.

The link for 'warranty' under the support section is not working. *Sigh*

Doesn't give me a lot of confidence about adding 3k to an already frustrating purchase.