Apr 23, 2020 at 11:55 AM Post #8,686 of 16,944
Would it be possible that those email messages be posted in original as an archive unless some copyright is involved?
Bonjour
Votre 9è mail pour tout comprendre du Realiser A16. Aujourd’hui, le Realiser Exchange.
Point info : si le Realiser est conçu avant tout pour fonctionner à partir de captures personnelles de salles et auditoriums (tout le matériel nécessaire à cette capture est fourni), il est aussi ouvert à des captures tierces, à télécharger sur un club d'échange en ligne : le Realiser Exchange.
Ce Realiser Exchange, dont la version bêta est en ligne (https://www.realiserexchange.com/) a 5 fonctions. Chaque utilisateur du A16 y crée son compte personnel, avec le numéro de série de sa machine, dans lequel il pourra :
  1. stocker dans le cloud ses captures personnelles de salles ;
  2. télécharger d'autres captures, gratuites ou payantes ;
  3. pré-entendre, au casque (relié à l'ordinateur) le rendu des différentes enceintes d'un fichier de salle (boucle musicale mono) pour se faire une idée ;
  4. vendre (ou offrir) sur la plateforme ses propres captures (paiement CB) ;
  5. améliorer une capture non personnelle, avec la fonction merge/fusion.
Le Realiser Exchange inclut également un espace de discussion (en anglais) public et privé.
On peut donc résumer sa fonction principale à une place de marché, dans laquelle stocker et échanger des captures de salles entre utilisateurs du A16. Sur ce point, le Realiser A16 s'inspire directement du Club Realiser, que j'ai créé pour les utilisateurs français du Realiser A8, le prédécesseur. J'y place aussi d'ailleurs des captures exclusives pour le A16, réservées à mes clients. Mais, point intéressant, les captures du A8 sont toutes utilisables avec le A16. Et même si elles ne sont "que" 7.1, chacune peut également être enrichie avec les enceintes Atmos d'une autre capture. Et toute peuvent fournir une excellente base pour la fonction fusion.
Car c'est là la vraie innovation voire révolution de ce Realiser Exchange. Dans l'univers du binaural, il est en effet admis que la capture personnalisée est le Graal ; c'est ce qui permet d'obtenir une copie conforme au casque d'un dispositif d'écoute sur enceintes. Le Realiser Exchange ambitionne de casser cette règle en permettant d'utiliser des captures faites au moyen d'oreilles (et donc de personnes) tierces et d'obtenir un rendu approchant la capture personnelle. Comment ? En combinant les données de 2 captures : une non personnelle (la cible), et une autre personnelle. Le seul prérequis est que la position des enceintes dans l'espace soit identique pour les 2 captures.
Cette fonction fusion est opérée dans le cloud. Avec possibilité d'écouter avant/après le résultat (cf. point 3). Ce service sera gratuit (du moins, dans un premier temps).
Le transfert de fichiers entre le Realiser Exchange et le A16 passe par une carte micro-SD, fournie.
Realiser Exchange détails
Vos questions : "Quel prix pour un fichier de salle ?"
Le Realiser Exchange inclura des fichiers gratuits et payants. Le choix du prix de ces derniers est totalement à l'appréciation des vendeurs (vous, par exemple), d'un montant symbolique à plusieurs centaines d'euros. Le Realiser Exchange prélève une commission pour les fichiers payants, sur le compte du vendeur, nécessaire à son fonctionnement. Attention, une justification de la détention des droits au son (comme le droit à l'image) pourra être demandée, notamment si des informations précises (photos, nom de Studio, de matériel) sont utilisées dans le descriptif.
Le saviez-vous ?
Tous les fichiers qui sortent du Realiser Exchange sont cryptés, et ne peuvent être utilisés que sur le Realiser A16 du compte de l'abonné.
La semaine prochaine : les fonctions futures.

Gilles Gerin
AV-in
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 12:11 PM Post #8,688 of 16,944
My A16 has successfully been delivered to Smyth Research in Bangor. One A16 delivered for upgrade down, X more to go before they can proceed to the process of upgrading.

Mine says Monday. The original date was tomorrow but it seems as though it’s been delayed a day.
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 12:37 PM Post #8,689 of 16,944
Mine says Monday. The original date was tomorrow but it seems as though it’s been delayed a day.
Today I received this helpful response from James to the email that I had sent him regarding duty fees:

"Thanks for getting in touch.
I have attached your commercial invoice and shipping label.
I hope this helps.
Let me know

Regards

James"

I would encourage folks on this side of the pond to do as I did and email James as it's not clear to me that Smyth Research will doing this by routine for everyone. It certainly wouldn't hurt.

Edit: It looks like it will be my responsibility to pass on to UPS the documents that James attached to his email response. Also, though my A16 was insured for 2499.99 USD, the original invoice from the Smyths states its value as 774 GBP. I don't know how the discrepancy affects things.
 
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Apr 23, 2020 at 12:42 PM Post #8,690 of 16,944
Today I received this helpful response from James to the email that I had sent him regarding duty fees:

"Thanks for getting in touch.
I have attached your commercial invoice and shipping label.
I hope this helps.
Let me know

Regards

James"

I would encourage folks on this side of the pond to do as I did and email James as it's not clear to me that Smyth Research will doing this by routine for everyone. It certainly wouldn't hurt.

I got those yesterday and UPS submitted them along with a letter explaining why it was being imported, etc. Doesn’t seem to have accomplished anything yet as the import fee still remains the same. I was holding off on paying it as I thought I might be able to get this resolved, but I don’t think I’m going to have a choice at this point.
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 1:27 PM Post #8,691 of 16,944
I got those yesterday and UPS submitted them along with a letter explaining why it was being imported, etc. Doesn’t seem to have accomplished anything yet as the import fee still remains the same. I was holding off on paying it as I thought I might be able to get this resolved, but I don’t think I’m going to have a choice at this point.
Regarding UPS, who or where exactly(e.g., phone number, email address)did you provide those documents to? A PM would be fine if you don't want to post here. It would save me a bit of running around. Thanks again.
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 1:42 PM Post #8,692 of 16,944
Regarding UPS, who or where exactly(e.g., phone number, email address)did you provide those documents to? A PM would be fine if you don't want to post here. It would save me a bit of running around. Thanks again.

for my particular situation - when I reached out to UPS International for assistance with the import fees - they suggested I reach out to ukpostclear@ups.com and provide the details of the situation and attach the original invoice, original shipping label, etc.
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 1:45 PM Post #8,693 of 16,944
Regarding UPS, who or where exactly(e.g., phone number, email address)did you provide those documents to? A PM would be fine if you don't want to post here. It would save me a bit of running around. Thanks again.

No problem, I'll post the info here in case it's helpful for others as well. I was given this phone number for the UPS International Resolution Service Group at 800-782-7892. They wouldn't deal with me directly as the shipper technically wasn't me, but a UPS Store, so the two of them made contact with each other. The UPS Store submitted stuff on my behalf, and was told any information I could add should be emailed to internationaldocs@ups.com and use the tracking number as the email subject. That's what I've done so far, but I think I'm going to also try the email address that @kh36267 posted as well.
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 1:49 PM Post #8,694 of 16,944
No problem, I'll post the info here in case it's helpful for others as well. I was given this phone number for the UPS International Resolution Service Group at 800-782-7892. They wouldn't deal with me directly as the shipper technically wasn't me, but a UPS Store, so the two of them made contact with each other. The UPS Store submitted stuff on my behalf, and was told any information I could add should be emailed to internationaldocs@ups.com and use the tracking number as the email subject. That's what I've done so far, but I think I'm going to also try the email address that @kh36267 posted as well.

i'll add that they also gave me a specific individual's e-mail within that ukpostclear group - gbroadhurst@ups.com - who must be a bit familiar with these types of situations. I e-mailed him first.....but he has an out-of-office reply and won't be back until Monday.....so I sent it to that broader group as well.
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 1:55 PM Post #8,695 of 16,944
i'll add that they also gave me a specific individual's e-mail within that ukpostclear group - gbroadhurst@ups.com - who must be a bit familiar with these types of situations. I e-mailed him first.....but he has an out-of-office reply and won't be back until Monday.....so I sent it to that broader group as well.

I just tried the broader one and got an auto reply saying they're working on it and experiencing higher than normal support queries. I'll try that individual as well as it can't hurt to try and get more people working to see if this can be cleared up.
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 1:58 PM Post #8,696 of 16,944
Your UPS experiences sound like a total nightmare. Maybe you guys should press James on why he does not want you to use USPS. As I mentioned earlier, that is how I sent my unit back to them. I cost $150 including $4,000 of insurance. I think it would have been even less if I had gone to a post office instead of a mailbox store. There were no customs fees since it was marked as being sent for repair. Took about three weeks to arrive at Smyth.
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 2:06 PM Post #8,697 of 16,944
Your UPS experiences sound like a total nightmare. Maybe you guys should press James on why he does not want you to use USPS. As I mentioned earlier, that is how I sent my unit back to them. I cost $150 including $4,000 of insurance. I think it would have been even less if I had gone to a post office instead of a mailbox store. There were no customs fees since it was marked as being sent for repair. Took about three weeks to arrive at Smyth.

I would have loved to send it USPS, but taking three weeks may have been an issue since they want all of the units there for upgrade by next week. Also mine is clearly marked for being sent for service, I have the documentation from when I shipped it stating so. That's what's so maddening about this, the thing has been classified correctly at the time of shipping yet these import fees are still an issue for some reason.
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 2:42 PM Post #8,698 of 16,944
No problem, I'll post the info here in case it's helpful for others as well. I was given this phone number for the UPS International Resolution Service Group at 800-782-7892. They wouldn't deal with me directly as the shipper technically wasn't me, but a UPS Store, so the two of them made contact with each other. The UPS Store submitted stuff on my behalf, and was told any information I could add should be emailed to internationaldocs@ups.com and use the tracking number as the email subject. That's what I've done so far, but I think I'm going to also try the email address that @kh36267 posted as well.
Thanks @Got the Shakes and @kh36267.

Edit:I have now sent an email with documents attached, to all three email addresses. Thanks again.
 
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Apr 23, 2020 at 3:00 PM Post #8,699 of 16,944
So, I do have questions. So, even if we assume that software can recreate a 100% accurate reinterpretation of a speaker system, that itself is a massive undertaking with many possible confounds, but I accept that it likely can be done to a very acceptable level of accuracy. Saying that, you still need to account for the fact that every headphone still has mechanical properties that will change how things sound. So I am trying to get my head around (pun intended) how something as complex as software trying to collapse complex physics into a created interpretation can then interact with a very different and new physical environment (the headphone) and craft something that is true to the source (the room and speaker system it is emulating). It seems to me that the software would also have to analyze everything about the headphone, interpret the many possible interaction effects, make adjustments and then output a signal.
Correct.

Measurement of the actual room listening environment is encapuslated into the PRIR. Normally produced by putting calibrated microphones into both ears which are themselves connected by wire to the A16 so that their responses can be digested. Sweep signals for a full frequency range are emitted by the A16 itself, played individually through each speaker in the environment and "heard" by the microphones in your ears, with the "sound" (as heard by the microphones, affected by everything in the listening environment from electronics, speakers, floor/wall/ceiling baffle treatments, your location, etc.) relayed to the A16 for analysis. Normally three repeats of the entire process (sweep signals sent to each speaker) are performed, first with your looking "straight ahead", and then "look left" (i.e. -30 degrees), and then "look right" (i.e. +30 degrees). The A16 analyzes the audio results (as heard by the microphones in your ears) from the three "rotational listening perspectives" in order to derive a complete "picture" of how the listening environment sounds to your own ears, virtually placing each of the speakers horizontally around you in a virtual mapping. Eventually this same process will be extended vertically as well, for capture of how speakers above and below you sound to your ears when sweep signals are sent to them individually by the A16.

That's the PRIR. It reflects only how the sound of the room is "heard", to your ears.

For the second part of the process, as you have observed, there must be a second measurement of the particular headphone equipment you will be using to listen to source content played (and processed via the PRIR used "in reverse") through the A16. This separate measurement of a paricular headphone/amp/DAC is named HPEQ, and it too is a digital file that is produced by the A16 through a calibration process. Totally unrelated to the room in which you are sitting when you produce the HPEQ, you have the same two calibrated microphones inserted in your ears. And then you place the headphones you want to measure over your ears, meaning also over the microphones inserted into your ears.

The A16 then emits another set of sweep signals to the headphones, with the microphones inserted in your ears measuring how things "sound". This takes into account your own body and how sound is affected by your ear canal, skull, body mass, etc., not to mention the audio characteristics of the heaphones, amp and DAC. What the microphones pick up, from whatever cause, is conveyed to the A16 during the process of producing the HPEQ... which is unique for a specific person's biophysical hearing system, and also for a specific headphone/amp/DAC being listened through.

That's the HPEQ. It reflects only how the specific headphone/amp/DAC sound to your ears.

At playback time, when you listen to any new source multi-channel content fed through the A16, you select a particular PRIR and HPEQ together, to define the "listening environment" you want to virtually recreate. Obviously the HPEQ you select must correspond to whatever particular headphone/amp/DAC you are now using to listen through. You would not use any different HPEQ for a different headphone/amp/DAC, other than the specific one you previously measured into a specific HPEQ for that specific listening equipment you are currently using. If you have a second headphon/amp/DAC and have separately measured it with its own HPEQ, you can use that equipment if you'd like and also select its HPEQ.

But regardless of HPEQ selected (which obviously must match the specific headphone/amp/DAC you're now using to listen to this new content through) you can in fact pick ANY PRIR you want to listen through to as if you were once again there, since that reflects how a particular "room" sounded to your ears, when you took the measurement in that room and produced the corresponding PRIR. Using any PRIR and playing any new content through it will "duplicate" how that same content would actually have sounded to your ears if you were once again sitting in that room and this new content was being played through the speakers in that room. The accuracy of that simulation is provided through the HPEQ selected which implies the audio characeristics of the headphone/amp/DAC you are now using to listen through.

So at playback time it is the combination of previously calibrated microphone-derived and A16 processing which measured things and produced the corresponding HPEQ (associated with the headphone/ampDAC you are now listening through) and the particular PRIR you are now using, which allows the virtual simulation of ANY CONTENT to be heard now listening through headphones as it would have been heard by you and your own ears, if you were now once again truly physically sitting in that room excactly where you were when the original PRIR measurement was made, and now listing to this new arbitrary content played through the room's speakers.

At playback time you pick:

(a) specific HPEQ, which the A16 uses to know how sound in general is reproduced by your headphone/amp/DAC and is heard by your ears, and

(b) specific PRIR, which the A16 uses to recreate what it is like for you and your own ears to hear anything in that specific room's listening environment, whatever physical or electronic it was that made up that room's auditory signature as heard by your particular ears

The result "dupllcates" how anything sounds to your own ears in that listening environment characterized by the PRIR, when using the current headphone/amp/DAC equipment characterized by the HPEQ.
 
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Apr 23, 2020 at 3:01 PM Post #8,700 of 16,944
So, I do have questions. So, even if we assume that software can recreate a 100% accurate reinterpretation of a speaker system, that itself is a massive undertaking with many possible confounds, but I accept that it likely can be done to a very acceptable level of accuracy. Saying that, you still need to account for the fact that every headphone still has mechanical properties that will change how things sound. So I am trying to get my head around (pun intended) how something as complex as software trying to collapse complex physics into a created interpretation can then interact with a very different and new physical environment (the headphone) and craft something that is true to the source (the room and speaker system it is emulating). It seems to me that the software would also have to analyze everything about the headphone, interpret the many possible interaction effects, make adjustments and then output a signal. I am not questioning the possible value, or even the clearly positive affects people are experiencing, I guess I am only unclear how accurate people think the final product is? If you have never actually heard the emulated speakers in the environment being emulated, how does one gauge the accuracy of the emulation? That would be quite separate from the enjoyment one experiences with the results. That doesn't have to matter, just questions that I have.

As mentioned before, you need two files to make virtualisation "perfect" with the A16 (or the A8, its predecessor, which works essentially in the same way, only with less virtual channels and less input/output and settings options). First is a PRIR (Personal Room Impulse Response), which captures how your ears perceive the respective speakers and room where you are taking the measurement (basically your HRTF, Head Related Transfer Function, for this setup). The other file is the HPEQ, or Headphone EQ, which does exactly what you are asking above - measuring the headphone characteristics of the phones you're wearing and essentially eliminating their effects on your chosen PRIR, so that the final preset (combination of both files) sounds as close as possible to the real thing. Both measurements are taken by microphones inserted into your ear canals pretty much like IEMs. They can be mixed and matched as you wish, so a preset should sound the same to you no matter which headphones you wear provided you're using the respective HPEQ for them.

As for complexity, while I am no electronics expert by any means, I don't personally believe that there is much more computing power needed to do this than is employed in other consumer-grade products that use DSPs for virtual surround. The difference is that these products only work with one standard setup (or algorithm) whereas the Realiser allows you to create them yourself and switch them at your convenience.

So how accurate is this? You're right that it's impossible to judge with accuracy if you can't compare it to the "real" room. However this is very much possible and desired and almost happens automatically when you record your PRIR (as mentioned, you have to be there to take the measurement). Once your PRIR and HPEQ are ready, you can use the Realiser to do instant A/B-testing (speakers are muted when you wear the phones, and a tilt sensor in the head tracker will know when you take them off and reengage the real speakers). I have done this in a studio in Munich a couple years ago with the A8, and I couldn't hear a difference AT ALL between what was coming from the speakers and what I heard from the virtual speakers in my HD800.

Now the A16 can do a lot more than that, like create a preset mixed together from different speakers in different rooms, or making a multichannel PRIR just using one speaker. There of course you don't have the possibility for accuracy testing, but in the end, at least for me, the question is more "how well do I identify what I hear as speakers and not as headphones" and "how much fun is it to listen to this". So far, both the A8 and the A16 have been without peer regarding this.
 

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