[phoenixdogfan]

TBH, I’m perplexed. I also can easily imagine just how frustrating this must be for you.

I personally haven’t experienced any issues with toggling between 16 and 24 channels. I’m using the latest firmware with the Auro 3D upgrade installed and also an in person 3D SoundShop PRIR, as you are (at least part of the time for you). I would recommend sending a log file to James so that the Smyths can troubleshoot it and come up with a fix. I wish you the best of luck, as always.

Thanks, I'm going to continue to play with it. Often, I find I can answer my own question. Hopefully, that will be the case here.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Do not know why, but I noticed just now that after the updates, all the inputs were set to HDMI 1, rather than eARC which is where all I derive all my inputs (from the Nvidia shield) for the presets (except when I play Qobuz which is delivered to a special 2 channel preset via USB from my PC), so I switched everything to eARC, reloaded the presets, went to misc settings, and 24 channels just slid right over to active. So, problem solved. I knew it was something like that.

 

[GeorgeA]

@dsperber, I’ve read your post at avsforum where you wrote that you hadn’t seen indications of Auro 3D being received on your Realiser A16 unit. In addition, you wanted to know whether or not Oppo 203 handled Auro 3D music audio from a FLAC music file and sent it out via "bitstream over HDMI" same as it handled the audio track from movie discs for Dolby Atmos and DTS:x?

The short answer to your query is definitely yes. My player is a Cambridge Audio CXUHD unit, which is the closest relative of Oppo 203. I’ve also bought Auro-3D files (embedded in 5.1 FLAC) from the spiritofturtle.com. When I played back the purchased The Four Seasons flac files (attached picture 02.jpg) and for Realiser A16 under Settings > System > Misc settings > Auro 3D was enabled, the display of the Realiser A16 showed as in the attached picture 04.jpg, for both setting values AURO-3D and native in the Auro listening mode. For contrast, when under Settings > System > Misc settings > Auro 3D wasn’t enabled, the Realiser A16’s display showed as in the attached picture 03.jpg.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Well got a couple of complete Auro 3D presets made a 9.1 and a 13.1 with the D&Ds. and I've been watching 5.1 movies on Netflix for the last two hours or so, and the Auromatic upmixer has been engaged. And.....

Yeah, I'd have to say it really rocks. A decided improvement over Netflix 5.1 DD+, so much so it rivals the Atmos material. Bass is very strong. I actually dialed the sub back 3db which was an easy fix. I've initially dialed back the VOG 2db as well, but I think full gain would only add volume to the soundscape which would be an even better thing.

It really sounds very natural. I may eventually be able to hear some artifacts of the upmixing, but I didn't tonight. Very well done. The really great thing about it, is that it breathes new life into all those films recorded in 5.1 by translating them into a more immersive format. And there are literally thousands of those flicks.

Yes, this was definitely worth every penny. I still want to play with the settings some more, and also capture Auro specific channels for my LS 50 metas, because I'd like to have two immersive audio system with full sets of PRIRs, but this definitely seems like a winner. Makes me wonder what some of the natively recorded material might sound like.

 

[dsperber]

@dsperber, I’ve read your post at avsforum where you wrote that you hadn’t seen indications of Auro 3D being received on your Realiser A16 unit. In addition, you wanted to know whether or not Oppo 203 handled Auro 3D music audio from a FLAC music file and sent it out via "bitstream over HDMI" same as it handled the audio track from movie discs for Dolby Atmos and DTS:x?

The short answer to your query is definitely yes. My player is a Cambridge Audio CXUHD unit, which is the closest relative of Oppo 203. I’ve also bought Auro-3D files (embedded in 5.1 FLAC) from the spiritofturtle.com. When I played back the purchased The Four Seasons flac files (attached picture 02.jpg) and for Realiser A16 under Settings > System > Misc settings > Auro 3D was enabled, the display of the Realiser A16 showed as in the attached picture 04.jpg, for both setting values AURO-3D and native in the Auro listening mode. For contrast, when under Settings > System > Misc settings > Auro 3D wasn’t enabled, the Realiser A16’s display showed as in the attached picture 03.jpg.

Correct. My post at AVSForum was from that day#1 experience where I'd just installed the firmware update permission file and didn't realize that, as you point out here, I had to also explicitly activate Auro3D (Settings -> System -> Misc settings -> Auro 3d = ENABLE). There's no such explicit activation for DTS:X so (in the absence yet of any A16 documentation for Auro) I wasn't even looking for this switch to turn on Auro processing. I just assumed if I'd applied the Auro firmware update that this would be sufficient to automatically enable Auro... as why else would I have installed the firmware unless I wanted the functionality?

As you show in your picture 03, if that switch is not enabled the underlying 5.1 inside the Auro bitstream from the player is what will be played by the A16, as PCM. I did experience just that.

I didn't discover this magic switch until day#2 when I got around to creating my Auro listening rooms and updated my presets, and even then had no real idea that it was this Auro 3D "master switch" that was the magic key. Since it was very obviously named, and since it was OFF as delivered, I simply decided to turn it on to see what would happen, and that was indeed the secret sauce. Now the 5.1+4 FLAC file played by my Oppo 203 sure enough was handled by the A16 as Auro.


I'm still exploring Auro as implemented, again in the absence of real documentation. I don't understand why Smyth implemented DTS:X purely as always-available and functional once you upgrade the firmware, without any "master ON/OFF switch" needed or available, and didn't do the same thing for Auro. I'm not talking about the underlying methodology, or the nature of the immersive sound technology. I'm talking simply about whether or not the A16 can actively support that type of bitstream or not. What were they thinking, that could cause such a significant difference in implementation? Why would I want or need to explicitly turn it OFF, if I'm not even feeding it any Auro source? I don't do that for Dolby Atmos or DTS:X, so why only for Auro is this necessary or useful?

And again, this same question applies to why Auro-Matic upmixer isn't simply enabled/disabled for a PCM input using "PCM audio management", exactly as DTS:X and Dolby Surround are optionally enabled/disabled? Why NOT add a third "Auro-Matic" value to the very specific "upmixer" item in that setting? Why WOULDN'T they do that??

I'm not talking about which upmixer sounds better (and as that YouTube video made clear it may well be that Auro-Matic does, once I get to hear it for myself) and therefore which one I would most likely turn out to use most/all the time. I only care about how to turn one of the three upmixers on or off for use, once I decide which one I'd like to listen through at that moment for whatever reason I might have. If I pick two using one technique, why isn't the third also selected the same way?? Why WOULDN'T you make all three selectable the same way as long as you've already offered two of them to be selectable using this very intuitive and specifically named setting technique?

Still exploring. And no word back from James yet in response to my questions about this.

 

[shmau]

Correct. My post at AVSForum was from that day#1 experience where I'd just installed the firmware update permission file and didn't realize that, as you point out here, I had to also explicitly activate Auro3D (Settings -> System -> Misc settings -> Auro 3d = ENABLE). There's no such explicit activation for DTS:X so (in the absence yet of any A16 documentation for Auro) I wasn't even looking for this switch to turn on Auro processing. I just assumed if I'd applied the Auro firmware update that this would be sufficient to automatically enable Auro... as why else would I have installed the firmware unless I wanted the functionality?

As you show in your picture 03, if that switch is not enabled the underlying 5.1 inside the Auro bitstream from the player is what will be played by the A16, as PCM. I did experience just that.

I didn't discover this magic switch until day#2 when I got around to creating my Auro listening rooms and updated my presets, and even then had no real idea that it was this Auro 3D "master switch" that was the magic key. Since it was very obviously named, and since it was OFF as delivered, I simply decided to turn it on to see what would happen, and that was indeed the secret sauce. Now the 5.1+4 FLAC file played by my Oppo 203 sure enough was handled by the A16 as Auro.


I'm still exploring Auro as implemented, again in the absence of real documentation. I don't understand why Smyth implemented DTS:X purely as always-available and functional once you upgrade the firmware, without any "master ON/OFF switch" needed or available, and didn't do the same thing for Auro. I'm not talking about the underlying methodology, or the nature of the immersive sound technology. I'm talking simply about whether or not the A16 can actively support that type of bitstream or not. What were they thinking, that could cause such a significant difference in implementation? Why would I want or need to explicitly turn it OFF, if I'm not even feeding it any Auro source? I don't do that for Dolby Atmos or DTS:X, so why only for Auro is this necessary or useful?

And again, this same question applies to why Auro-Matic upmixer isn't simply enabled/disabled for a PCM input using "PCM audio management", exactly as DTS:X and Dolby Surround are optionally enabled/disabled? Why NOT add a third "Auro-Matic" value to the very specific "upmixer" item in that setting? Why WOULDN'T they do that??

I'm not talking about which upmixer sounds better (and as that YouTube video made clear it may well be that Auro-Matic does, once I get to hear it for myself) and therefore which one I would most likely turn out to use most/all the time. I only care about how to turn one of the three upmixers on or off for use, once I decide which one I'd like to listen through at that moment for whatever reason I might have. If I pick two using one technique, why isn't the third also selected the same way?? Why WOULDN'T you make all three selectable the same way as long as you've already offered two of them to be selectable using this very intuitive and specifically named setting technique?

Still exploring. And no word back from James yet in response to my questions about this.

This feature is still not official and it is buggy. Not sure if it's the right time to review its usability yet. Yes we have paid money for it but it's only because another member on this forum informed us that they have it available. I would consider this more of a prerelease.

 

[Litlgi74]

Why WOULDN'T you make all three selectable the same way as long as you've already offered two of them to be selectable using this very intuitive and specifically named setting technique?

Auro-3D is limited to 16 channel mode... So it can't have a universal on and off switch like Dolby and DTS upmixers which work in both 16 and 24 channel modes.

The limitation for Auro-3D to work in 16 channel mode was not a Smyth decision. But one decided by Auro-3D



I too am hopeful that refinements will be made within the firmware to make Auro-3D use more seamless... But for now... The clumsy path to enable the decoder is well worth the results it produces. And the results are spectacular.

I can't help but wonder if the Smyths had released Auro-3D sooner... It may have been a game changer for their business.

 

[Litlgi74]

Makes me wonder what some of the natively recorded material might sound like.

No need to wonder... Here are four native Auro-3D Demos...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rvQjcvhuoWpBYZqneLJ27HqgvfmzmQ7U

Prepare to be amazed!

Enjoy

 

[GeorgeA]

A few years ago, I wrote a message to Auro Technologies and asked them about the availability of AURO-3D Demonstration Disc Vol.2. I got an affirmative answer and they sent me a free copy, all I had to pay was for shipping.

 

[dsperber]

Auro-3D is limited to 16 channel mode... So it can't have a universal on and off switch like Dolby and DTS upmixers which work in both 16 and 24 channel modes.

I too am hopeful that refinements will be made within the firmware to make Auro-3D use more seamless... But for now... The clumsy path to enable the decoder is well worth the results it produces. And the results are spectacular.

Well, I'm a convert!

Finally figured out that unfortunately it is true that you have to use the Misc Settings -> Auro 3D "global" on/off switch to enable AuroMatic. And when it's on, the preset-specific PCM Audio management "upmixer" settings are disabled. So if it's on, that's the only type of upmixing you can demonstrate. In order to sample Dolby Surround or DTS: Neural you have to turn OFF the Auro3d "global", to bring PCM Aurio management within each preset back to life.

This is obviously the wrong way to have done it. I hope they fix this in some future firmware upgrade, the same way they responded to the obvious need to add "audio source" within a preset and have it active at the preset level (or, alternatively, as a global setting with the single global value applied to all presets). It is simply instantly apparent that it is just clumsy and cumbersome to have to drill down multiple levels in Misc Settings to turn AuroMatic on/off, when clearly it should be preset-related (if you ask me). No question it belongs in PCM Audio management within the preset, as a 3rd choice for "upmixer".

The fact that Auro itself is not compatible with 24ch mode isn't any reason for not putting its enabling at the preset level as a 3rd choice for upmixer. The edit is simply programming, to make it inoperative (even if supposedly in effect) if you are at 24ch mode. Only if you are in 16ch mode would the Auro functionality kick in, and the AuroMatic upmixer be enabled for use if required. But I really wanted to be able to set up 3 presets (13, 14, and 15, with each of the three upmixers assigned) tonight and simply move between them to compare their audible difference. It can only be done instantly and conveniently between the two presets selecting Dolby Surround and DTS:X Neural after first turning off Auro, with a whole side trip required to turn Auro back on in order to use it. No reason for it.

Anyway, now that I've learned how to exercise all three of them I performed some very informative tests tonight, using a "reference" CD (i.e. "digital mix tape") I had made about 10 years ago when I was going to a CanJam show here in LA. I knew that Ray Samuels was going to exhibit there and I was looking at possibly upgrading from my 1995-vintage Stax SRM-007tII. So I brought my Stax amp and SR-Omega headphone with me, along with this "reference" CD on which I'd placed selective popular music that I was VERY VERY familiar with how it sounded. I was able to get the people in the Samuels room to let me set up my equipment, and for comparison also be able to plug my headphones into their A10 Thunderbolt (first version) tube amp that he had on display (and for sale for $5K). It was quite dramatic how much superior his A10 amp was compared to my Stax. In the end I decided not to part with the $5K, but the sound of his amp as the only "variable" using my headphones, and my "reference" source CD as "constants" was truly remarkable. Fantastic amp. (the current A10 Version II is priced at $6500).

Nevertheless...

I have to rate the sound STUNNING!!! In the head-to-head-to-head battle against Dolby Surround and DTS:X Neural with the same test material, I honestly feel it to be a runaway. No reason to ever consider using the other two. (of course that works against my arguing for the urgency and convenience of seeing the master ON/OFF switch added to the preset's PCM Audio management if I'm never ever going to be using either of the other two upmixers!!).

Really remarkable. As @phoenixdogfan said, the bass and overall frequency response is really superb and sounds truly "natural" as if it had been produced for multiple speakers instead of just 2 channels. I would normally have put myself in the camp of wanting to listen to sound as the creator built it (rather than upmixing which I felt was just artificial). But this is so natural and real sounding, and SO ABSOLUTELY ENJOYABLE, that I'm now an absolute convert to AuroMatic rather than just listening to the original 2.0. It just sounds so wonderful! And again, it's the CLEAR WINNER over the other two upmixers which obviously now will just never be used.

 

[Litlgi74]

Well, I'm a convert!

Finally figured out that unfortunately it is true that you have to use the Misc Settings -> Auro 3D "global" on/off switch to enable AuroMatic. And when it's on, the preset-specific PCM Audio management "upmixer" settings are disabled. So if it's on, that's the only type of upmixing you can demonstrate. In order to sample Dolby Surround or DTS: Neural you have to turn OFF the Auro3d "global", to bring PCM Aurio management within each preset back to life.

This is obviously the wrong way to have done it. I hope they fix this in some future firmware upgrade, the same way they responded to the obvious need to add "audio source" within a preset and have it active at the preset level (or, alternatively, as a global setting with the single global value applied to all presets). It is simply instantly apparent that it is just clumsy and cumbersome to have to drill down multiple levels in Misc Settings to turn AuroMatic on/off, when clearly it should be preset-related (if you ask me). No question it belongs in PCM Audio management within the preset, as a 3rd choice for "upmixer".

The fact that Auro itself is not compatible with 24ch mode isn't any reason for not putting its enabling at the preset level as a 3rd choice for upmixer. The edit is simply programming, to make it inoperative (even if supposedly in effect) if you are at 24ch mode. Only if you are in 16ch mode would the Auro functionality kick in, and the AuroMatic upmixer be enabled for use if required. But I really wanted to be able to set up 3 presets (13, 14, and 15, with each of the three upmixers assigned) tonight and simply move between them to compare their audible difference. It can only be done instantly and conveniently between the two presets selecting Dolby Surround and DTS:X Neural after first turning off Auro, with a whole side trip required to turn Auro back on in order to use it. No reason for it.

Anyway, now that I've learned how to exercise all three of them I performed some very informative tests tonight, using a "reference" CD (i.e. "digital mix tape") I had made about 10 years ago when I was going to a CanJam show here in LA. I knew that Ray Samuels was going to exhibit there and I was looking at possibly upgrading from my 1995-vintage Stax SRM-007tII. So I brought my Stax amp and SR-Omega headphone with me, along with this "reference" CD on which I'd placed selective popular music that I was VERY VERY familiar with how it sounded. I was able to get the people in the Samuels room to let me set up my equipment, and for comparison also be able to plug my headphones into their A10 Thunderbolt (first version) tube amp that he had on display (and for sale for $5K). It was quite dramatic how much superior his A10 amp was compared to my Stax. In the end I decided not to part with the $5K, but the sound of his amp as the only "variable" using my headphones, and my "reference" source CD as "constants" was truly remarkable. Fantastic amp. (the current A10 Version II is priced at $6500).

Nevertheless...

I have to rate the sound STUNNING!!! In the head-to-head-to-head battle against Dolby Surround and DTS:X Neural with the same test material, I honestly feel it to be a runaway. No reason to ever consider using the other two. (of course that works against my arguing for the urgency and convenience of seeing the master ON/OFF switch added to the preset's PCM Audio management if I'm never ever going to be using either of the other two upmixers!!).

Really remarkable. As @phoenixdogfan said, the bass and overall frequency response is really superb and sounds truly "natural" as if it had been produced for multiple speakers instead of just 2 channels. I would normally have put myself in the camp of wanting to listen to sound as the creator built it (rather than upmixing which I felt was just artificial). But this is so natural and real sounding, and SO ABSOLUTELY ENJOYABLE, that I'm now an absolute convert to AuroMatic rather than just listening to the original 2.0. It just sounds so wonderful! And again, it's the CLEAR WINNER over the other two upmixers which obviously now will just never be used.

Check out the demos above... They are really impressive... Especially when the VOG kicks in with the fireworks. It's a shame Auro-3D did not win the format war.

 

[sander99]

Ah, I suddenly remember something...
A long time ago there was some dispute between Auro and the manufacturer of the decoding boards. Smyth then said they might decide to implement Auro 3D on one of the DSP chips that normally are used for the speaker virtualisation (SVS processing). And in 24 channel mode both those DSP's are used for one user because of the DSP horse power needed for that. If indeed Smyth implemented Auro 3D on one of those DSPs that would explain why the Auro 3D enable switch is on a deeper level, reconfiguring the A16 for the different use of the second DSP chip. In 24 channel mode of course the second DSP chip is needed for the extra channels, so not available for Audo 3D!
If all this is the case then with Auro 3D you can not have dual users.
So, has anyone with Auro 3D already tried to use Auro 3D with 2 users? Is it indeed not possible?

 

[sander99]

The old plan:

The newer plan, in which Auro 3D processing is moved to the chip needed for user B SVS processing:

 

[shmau]

The old plan:


The newer plan, in which Auro 3D processing is moved to the chip needed for user B SVS processing:

Interesting that the date is so old. Is this old news? But seems like I may now understand a bit more about why AV outputs do not work in Auro mode... seems that it should enter the audio router too but they're probably missing a hopefully small bit of code since the decoded output would normally come from another chip.

 

[sander99]

Is this old news?

Yes, this is old news that's why I almost forgot about it. Still, can anyone confirm that indeed Auro 3D doesn't work for user B?

AV outputs do not work in Auro mode

Do you have Auro 3D and tried it with AV mode and it didn't work?