[sander99]

Agree. I'd add that two-channel movies/tv often sound pretty good upsampled by the A-16. I don't like two-channel music upsampled, so I bypass my A-16 for that. However, I believe there are plans to let you use the A-16 without a PRIR for two-channel, so you just get the headphone equalization, but not the room effects. I'm looking forward to trying that out.

With upsampling you mean upmixing of course (upsampling is something different).
And you seem not to clearly distinguish between speaker simulation and upmixing:
You can listen to 2 channel content over 2 virtual speakers. So in that case you do speaker simulation but not upmixing!
So what exactly did you mean with "I bypass my A-16 for that": you prefer stereo content as normal stereo over headphones without virtual speakers, so inside your head? I can not really believe that, I think maybe you are just confused. Or maybe you haven't figured out yet that you can turn off all upmixing in your A16?

 

[VandyMan]

With upsampling you mean upmixing of course (upsampling is something different).
And you seem not to clearly distinguish between speaker simulation and upmixing:
You can listen to 2 channel content over 2 virtual speakers. So in that case you do speaker simulation but not upmixing!
So what exactly did you mean with "I bypass my A-16 for that": you prefer stereo content as normal stereo over headphones without virtual speakers, so inside your head? I can not really believe that, I think maybe you are just confused. Or maybe you haven't figured out yet that you can turn off all upmixing in your A16?

You are really a stickler on this stuff. As you surmised, I meant upmixing, not upsampling. Sorry about that.

Yes, shocking as it is, I prefer stereo music without any A-16 processing. I have some really good headphones and what I gain by having two virtual speakers does not make up for what I lose by changing the frequency response and adding room reverb/reflections. That is just my personal preference. Perhaps influenced by 35 years of listening to music thru headphones while at work. Also, I don't yet have my own custom PRIR. So my opinion may change once I do.

My setup allows me to easily bypass the A-16. However, we will eventually be able to use the A-16 with our measured (or manual) headphone EQ and no virtual speakers. When that is available, I'll probably use the A-16 for all my listening in my living room.

 

[Dixter]

you shouldn't limit 2 channel content to just two speakers... you also have the option to create a Stereo Room with 24 speakers too... and with the bass management, 24 speakers sounds great...

 

[VandyMan]

you shouldn't limit 2 channel content to just two speakers... you also have the option to create a Stereo Room with 24 speakers too... and with the bass management, 24 speakers sounds great...

Is that directed at me? I already said that I don't like the sound of stereo music unmixed, only movies/tv.

 

[Litlgi74]

Thank you all for the explanations. Let me see if I understand correctly.

So the A16 simulates the "sound" of a specific speaker(s) in a specific environment?

My next question is meant to save wasted time and money... Is it possible to create a virtual home theater using only the signature sound of the headphones to be used?

I want to use the A16 in my bedroom. I would be using my Abyss 1266 TC headphones for multi channel audio movie playback. IMO... When it comes to resolution, my headphones sound vastly superior to my Signature Series Paradigm S8 speakers. Then again, maybe if I had a dedicated listening room... the Paradigms would sound better... but I don't. Which is why I choose to listen to music with headphones... They eliminate the problems if the room.

Maybe it's still wishful thinking... But I was really hoping to experience the surround sound the recording engineer intended via the best sound producing speakers I own... My headphones. :/

 

[rsbrsvp]

Yes, shocking as it is, I prefer stereo music without any A-16 processing. I have some really good headphones and what I gain by having two virtual speakers does not make up for what I lose by changing the frequency response and adding room reverb/reflections. That is just my personal preference. Perhaps influenced by 35 years of listening to music thru headphones while at work. Also, I don't yet have my own custom PRIR. So my opinion may change once I do.

This comment EXACTLY depicts my feelings using OOYH vs not using it. The reverb, reflections, and out of the head feel etc. are really neat but do not make up for the loss that comes with the virtual presentation-- just sounds kind of fake to me; I cant describe it any other way. I do find that my Goodhertz can-opener program brings the music slightly but meaningfully outside of my head without damaging the purity of two channel stereo music sound. IMHO of course.

 

[Eich1eeF]

Also- I once tried a speaker emulating program on my computer which I believe was called OOYH. To my ears it was terrible. It did have a lot of the reverberations and reflections of speakers but it severely altered the frequency response and all the intimacy of headphones was GONE. I assume I can expect better with this product.

With the Realiser, you can expect a reproduction of the recorded speakers that is indistinguishable from those speakers, even when comparing the simulation and the speakers directly.

When technology has advanced to the point that I can get my personal HTRF without having to have a speaker or studio; just that the smyth realizer can make the calculation without this;- then I may jump in.

That's not going to happen anytime soon. At least not with the accuracy that the Realiser offers. If you're using software anyway, maybe Genelec Aural-ID will be good enough for you. Creative has announced something similar with Super X-Fi, not sure if they have gotten anywhere, and I doubt it'll ever work without their headphones. I have no experience with either of those.

 

[VandyMan]

This comment EXACTLY depicts my feelings using OOYH vs not using it. The reverb, reflections, and out of the head feel etc. are really neat but do not make up for the loss that comes with the virtual presentation-- just sounds kind of fake to me; I cant describe it any other way. I do find that my Goodhertz can-opener program brings the music slightly but meaningfully outside of my head without damaging the purity of two channel stereo music sound. IMHO of course.

I don't think the A-16 sounds fake with stereo music, but if you up mix, it is certainly not giving you what the sound engineer/artist intended. I know a lot of folks here would disagree with me, but I would only recommend the A-16 to people who want to listen to multi-channel content on headphones. It can give you good results with two-channel, but it really shines with multi-channel.

 

[Eich1eeF]

Maybe it's still wishful thinking... But I was really hoping to experience the surround sound the recording engineer intended via the best sound producing speakers I own... My headphones. :/

Recording engineers don't typically use headphones as their primary reference, they use monitoring speakers in an acoustically treated room. With the Realiser, you can rent an actual studio for an hour or two, and use an exact reproduction at home.

 

[VandyMan]

That's not going to happen anytime soon. At least not with the accuracy that the Realiser offers.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, what he is asking for is what Smyth is promising with the Realiser Exchange. You won't need access to speakers, but you will need to still measure your headphones. Of course, "not happening anytime soon" is a pretty safe bet with Smyth.

 

[VandyMan]

Recording engineers don't typically use headphones as their primary reference, they use monitoring speakers in an acoustically treated room. With the Realiser, you can rent an actual studio for an hour or two, and use an exact reproduction at home.

A lot of recording engineers do use headphones or mix for headphones because they are aware that is how their music will mainly be experienced these days. I agree that you can probably virtualize a studio and get good results, but getting a PRIR made in a real studio is easier said than done for most of us.

 

[sander99]

Also, I don't yet have my own custom PRIR. So my opinion may change once I do.

With a really good personal measurement of a really good system I would expect so, or even if you still don't prefer it it should at least not sound artificial anymore then. And without a personal measurement I find it not surprising at all if it sounds artificial.

 

[Litlgi74]

Is there a list of recommended studios in the US to have a custom PRIR made? If so, what does this service typically cost?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Today, I’ve received my Realiser A16 unit as you can see it in the attached photo.

The dilettantism and indifference of DHL combined with Smyth Research's willingness to reduce their shipping costs (DHL Economy select) made my Realiser A16 to travel across Europe (from Northern Ireland to Romania, about 2,500 km) for 12 days until delivery.

Given the delivery of the A16, the motto for me is back to school. I hope that my learning curve won’t be a steep one. By reading quite a lot of interesting posts here, I am able to understand much better what Realiser A16 means and how it can be set.

Economy select? What!

 

[phoenixdogfan]

First: With the A16 you can also listen to stereo content over one virtual stereo pair of speakers. Because there exist countless stereo recordings of music and other things that will always be important. Of course stereo can also be upmixed to more channels but I think it is primarely a matter of taste whether or not you would do that.

People have only two ears but can localise sound all around them. With a stereo pair of speakers (that should be no more than 60 degrees apart) you create a soundstage in front of you. With more speakers all around you can create a soundstage all around you.
The other way round: two headphone channels (one for each ear) are enough to make you hear sound from every direction around you but that is only because / and under the condition that:
1. Each ear only hears one of the channels, so we can independently control what each ear hears.
2. The two channels are fed with the proper kind of signals that the brain can interpret as 3D sound.
That is something one stereo pair of speakers can not do.

This may be a bit confusing: On the one hand for listening to normal recordings (stereo or multichannel) speakers are more suitable than headphones (because with normal stereo or donwmixed to normal stereo heaphones will make the sound primarely seem to be inside or close to the head, and loudspeakers because of their fysical location make the sound seem to come from a distance). On the other hand: given the proper binauralised input signals only headphones provide full control of spatial aspects of the sound.

Either way, you are listening with two ears and hearing only the sounds that come to them (except for deep bass of course). If your headphones can emulate exactly or nearly exactly what your two ears would hear in a room full of high end loudspeakers, then it will sound to you like a roomful of high end loudspeakers, even though it's just a pair of headphones playing program material next to your ears.