[bigshot]

That's exactl

  It feels more like protecting people than discussing because that's my main reason I sometimes posted over there (protecting that is). Or is it the sponsors that otherwise stop sponsoring this site... I have no clue

 
It's all of that. But the good part of it is that we have created a pretty nice community within a community here in Sound Science. We constantly deal with dolts who wander in from the outside who aren't aware of what we do here, but as long as folks like you find your way here, it's OK. Let the clueless be protected from finding a clue if that is the way it has to be. We can help each other here.

 

[Steve Eddy]

It's more like banishment on a desert island. I was here when the Sound Science forum was created. It was specifically created to get those of us who talked about measurements and controlled listening tests out of the cable forum. Someone didn't like cables and tweaks being held to objective standards and decided that the best way to protect the sacred cow was to create a banishment group which would be the only place in Head-Fi where the dreaded letters DBT could be uttered. Then they banned DBT from the rest of the site. That made me considerably less interested in the rest of the site with one fell swoop. I like it here in Sound Science though, I think we have a good group of people here for the most part.

Yeah. They basically just duplicated the Audio Asylum model. Only difference is they called it Propeller Head Plaza on AA.

se

 

[bigshot]

It's pretty clear we aren't loved by the powers that be, but we sure are tenacious!

 

[StanD]

 
It feels like that, because we're not allowed to talk about science in other forums, because of the debates? It feels more like protecting people than discussing because that's my main reason I sometimes posted over there (protecting that is). Or is it the sponsors that otherwise stop sponsoring this site... I have no clue

I manage to sneak specs and thinking into the threads, carefully. The truth is out there, in the Science forum.

 

[RRod]

  It's like everyone's blind and has the need to spend more and more because others say you HAVE TO spend more to get that little bit (or night and day) extra SQ, for only a few hundreds of extra cash?
 
''You should buy this device because wow never heard such a thing. OK now you have it you need to upgrade it because as is, the player is nothing special but after that upgrade... Oh now you have upgraded, there's another player/amp/cable that is much better, get one!''
 
I respect @castleofargh for the patience he has with those people.

 
When I decided to buy my first "big boy" setup, I found this site and of course did the obvious thing: search reviews and big threads. Then I bought a Magni and realized it did all I needed for a fraction of the cost, and decided to learn the real dope on this stuff. Needless to say, I've found that pretty much every other section is basically full of it. It's gotten to where I almost don't want to bother on another sub-forum, even if there is really bad info going around, because my response will simply get swamped. Like right now, the whole PM-3 thread is about balanced cables. The headphone is 102dB@1mw…

 

[Steve Eddy]

The PM-3 is ortho, no? Why would DAP output impedance be the concern?

se

 

[bigshot]

Another thing I've noticed is that the "expert" audiophiles in the other forums have a LOT of their own ego invested into their opinions. They aren't interested in arguing facts on point and they don't like being contradicted. If you question them on an opinion and provide information to make your point, they inevitably resort to ad hominem attacks. I usually take that as a tacit admission that they are unable to support their argument and have a sense of humor about it. But the humor makes them even more infuriated. So I just keep my distance and you know what if they can't take a joke!
 
One thing is for sure, audiophiles make for great poker players... they know how to bluff!

 

[cel4145]

It feels like that, because we're not allowed to talk about science in other forums, because of the debates? It feels more like protecting people than discussing because that's my main reason I sometimes posted over there (protecting that is). Or is it the sponsors that otherwise stop sponsoring this site... I have no clue

I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure you are allowed to bring up a scientific perspective on the other forums. Just the cable forums is DBT discussion free. But I think the goal is if you want to discuss the science and have it turn into debates, then bring it here. Makes sense, too, because there can be dedicated threads here about specific science topics that people can be pointed to for reading and/or more discussion. So better organization of discussions throughout the site.

I don't think it's all about sponsors, either. I would bet my money that the majority of head-fi users hold some--if not a lot of--subjectivist beliefs. Seems to me it probably does make for a friendlier community for the range of perspectives when the heavy science discussion is dedicated to this sub forum.

 

[StanD]

  Another thing I've noticed is that the "expert" audiophiles in the other forums have a LOT of their own ego invested into their opinions. They aren't interested in arguing facts on point and they don't like being contradicted. If you question them on an opinion and provide information to make your point, they inevitably resort to ad hominem attacks. I usually take that as a tacit admission that they are unable to support their argument and have a sense of humor about it. But the humor makes them even more infuriated. So I just keep my distance and you know what if they can't take a joke!
 
One thing is for sure, audiophiles make for great poker players... they know how to bluff!

Bluff, that's the only thing they can do.

 

[bigshot]

I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure you are allowed to bring up a scientific perspective on the other forums. Just the cable forums is DBT discussion free.

 
No, DBT is only allowed in Sound Science. Try suggesting controlled listening test results in any of the other forums and see how long it takes you to get zapped by the admins!
 
Also, one of the precipitating events that resulted in the creation of the Sound Science group was the meltdown a cable manufacturer/member of the trade/advertiser had in the cables forum when he wasn't able to explain the pseudo-scientific sales pitch he published on his website. He got VERY angry, said some very inflammatory things, and stomped off in a huff.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Also, one of the precipitating events that resulted in the creation of the Sound Science group was the meltdown a cable manufacturer/member of the trade/advertiser had in the cables forum when he wasn't able to explain the pseudo-scientific sales pitch he published on his website. He got VERY angry, said some very inflammatory things, and stomped off in a huff.

Who was that?

se

 

[cel4145]

No, DBT is only allowed in Sound Science. Try suggesting controlled listening test results in any of the other forums and see how long it takes you to get zapped by the admins!

I frequently recommend someone try ABX testing in the newbie recommendations forum where I do most of my posting. Note Jude's original post about DBT where he says

"That means, no discussion of DBT (or ABX) from the standpoint of either pro-DBT or anti-DBT. "
http://www.head-fi.org/t/11585/about-cables/15#post_132417

So, for example, someone thinks that they need a DAP with more storage for all their lossless files. I'll tell them that many people find high bit rate mp3s indistinguishable from lossless in an ABX test with Foobar. And I'm not the only one who does that. Or if they ask whether or not a more expensive amp would provide better sound over their Objective 2, I might mention that in ABX tests, people often find that the amps are not distinguishable once you get up to good solid state amps like the O2. Or similarly if someone asks about buying expensive cables in that recommendation thread. But I don't (or at least try to avoid) argue about it or turn it into a pro-DBT or anti-DBT thing. It's more of a take what I said and you can try it and decide for yourself thing.

Note I don't do this about interconnect cables in the Cables forum. That's for the anti-DBT people like the Sound Science forum is for the objectivists.

 

[StanD]

Who was that?

se

Definitely WASN'T you. 

 

[Steve Eddy]

Definitely WASN'T you. 

Ah! WHEW!

Ain't getting any younger so just wanted to make sure.

se

 

[Sonic Defender]

Retracted