Skeptico Saloon: An Objectivist Joint

[Steve Eddy]

Hi Guys

I took a vacation from lunacy for a few days. How's it going? Is the signal to noise below the threshold of tolerance still?

My tax refund came in and I'm thinking of buying an Orthophonic Credenza for my listening room. I plan to get some mikes and try to record the way acoustic phonographs sound in a real world room. Interesting experiment.

Is that anything lik a moss-covered, three-handle family gredunza?

se

 

[bigshot]

  Where were your previous recordings/conversions done?

 
I have done electronic transcriptions in the past, but I found it was very difficult to match the quality of of some aspects of acoustic playback using an electrical turntable. I know that a lot of people swear that the best way to transfer acoustic disks is to mike a good phonograph well and get a little room ambience along with it. I want to try that and see if I can get closer quicker that way.
 
Here is an acoustic record from 1903 that I transferred electrically. This is the best I could come up with using that method... http://www.vintageip.com/xfers/libertybellmarch.mp3
 
Here is a youtube video of a Credenza https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpprkw2i2Us another good one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvLcJcMuznk
Notice how there is almost no surface noise and a really nice balance, even through the dinky mike on the guy's camera. The only thing that electronic transcription can do better is bass. The thing that sets the Credenza apart from other phonos is the exponential horn design. At the opening the horn is about 55 square inches.

 

[cel4145]

Well take a look at the portable source gear and have a lol (as a comeback from your vacation).

While I never listened to a $1000+ DAP (so no experience, just common sense) I can find a good laugh at the AK240, Sont ZX2 thread etc. People buying a $1200 DAP (while owning a $1100 one) because the other one was too shrill sounding. And so having both AK 240 and 120 ($2500 and $1000 [?]) because one is for pop music and the other for rock.

Why not upgrade your headphones?? At $3k there's some beauties out there ! Really when owning a sufficient DAP and you find it sound harsh, why not buy another headphone at $500-1500 or two or three, that doesnt sound harsh (because the headphones themselves are not harsh sounding though the one they have is).

Guess I will never get it. The power of expectation is big.

No doubt.

It's not just the "power of expectation." It's the addiction to finding a new sound, whether it's significantly better or not. I've seen it very often in threads for new headphones that are the FOTM, and you frequently see people who are buying new headphones (and other equipment) on practically a weekly basis. Expectation bias obviously increases the hype train with any FOTM. But this pursuit is also very much like a drug addiction where people are always looking for that new high because the current high isn't as exciting any more.

 

[StanD]

No doubt.

It's not just the "power of expectation." It's the addiction to finding a new sound, whether it's significantly better or not. I've seen it very often in threads for new headphones that are the FOTM, and you frequently see people who are buying new headphones (and other equipment) on practically a weekly basis. Expectation bias obviously increases the hype train with any FOTM. But this pursuit is also very much like a drug addiction where people are always looking for that new high because the current high isn't as exciting any more.

That high wears off very quickly and the tolerance builds swiftly.

 

[castleofargh]

No doubt.

It's not just the "power of expectation." It's the addiction to finding a new sound, whether it's significantly better or not. I've seen it very often in threads for new headphones that are the FOTM, and you frequently see people who are buying new headphones (and other equipment) on practically a weekly basis. Expectation bias obviously increases the hype train with any FOTM. But this pursuit is also very much like a drug addiction where people are always looking for that new high because the current high isn't as exciting any more.

exactly, those compulsive buyers are all after the hormonal shots from new stuff. it has no longer anything to do with audio. and the fact that most of them are so exuberant about the new stuff they just got, but still go for something else soon after, is proof that the joy and acclaimed superiority were not actually from the product itself but from the "new toy" effect.
it's a clear sickness, and I guess all hobbyists contract it on some level. I certainly have to reason with myself when a new cool toy gets out, and accept the idea that if it doesn't solve problems I have on my actual gears, it would be foolish to go for it. but I understand how easy it is to fall prey to the marketing machine. usual reason vs passion fight, and some just suck at controlling themselves.
with years passing I feel like the more I relied on specs and facts, the less I am tempted by the mere fact of something being new and trendy. before I started to understand specs and care for them, I was buying a lot of crap for no reason. maybe that's just me, but I kind of feel like being more rational and informed about the hobby is a strong weapon against compulsive purchase. pretty sure the hardcore subjectivist buys more on average.
 
anyway the massive ups and down pushing for a new fix are a symptom of addiction and should be taken seriously.

 

[Ruben123]

   
I have a $1000+ amp/DAC and it makes absolutely no difference, so I would imagine that a player wouldn't be much different.

There's a difference between the sound of a drum and its 0s and 1s, and the sound of a violin or only its frequencies your non audiophile DAP plays. (+ you dont have the golden ears they have... well I think I do have one of the most golden ears here! Mine are relatively young)
..........
I see many in the forums have DAPs or whatever toy plays music that are more expensive than their cans. Usually $200 at max earphones, looking at an increase in SQ for (to call one) the Tera player.

 

[cel4145]

exactly, those compulsive buyers are all after the hormonal shots from new stuff. it has no longer anything to do with audio. and the fact that most of them are so exuberant about the new stuff they just got, but still go for something else soon after, is proof that the joy and acclaimed superiority were not actually from the product itself but from the "new toy" effect.
it's a clear sickness, and I guess all hobbyists contract it on some level. I certainly have to reason with myself when a new cool toy gets out, and accept the idea that if it doesn't solve problems I have on my actual gears, it would be foolish to go for it. but I understand how easy it is to fall prey to the marketing machine. usual reason vs passion fight, and some just suck at controlling themselves.
with years passing I feel like the more I relied on specs and facts, the less I am tempted by the mere fact of something being new and trendy. before I started to understand specs and care for them, I was buying a lot of crap for no reason. maybe that's just me, but I kind of feel like being more rational and informed about the hobby is a strong weapon against compulsive purchase. pretty sure the hardcore subjectivist buys more on average.

anyway the massive ups and down pushing for a new fix are a symptom of addiction and should be taken seriously.

+1

I also think it's one major potential cause of upgraditis, but not the only one. I admit. I like to get new gear, and that urge isn't just about the high of the sound. Time for something new just 'cause there is new technology or an improved model.

So it is an expectation for improved performance, but I believe it gets at a different set of psychological factors than that new aesthetic high addiction. Maybe more compulsion? Other values associated with having new equipment? When it comes to new technology, I feel driven to upgrade my phone, computer, and tablet every couple of years, which is not about an aesthetic type performance increase. It feels more like a tech/gear kind of performance thing. Does that make sense?

Or maybe it's an urge to collect, for those of us who buy equipment but rarely sell off the old.

 

[Ruben123]

But against my expectations, my Sony Xperia T distorts higher frequencies. I have to find out what it causes: or my earphones distorted because they were that bad, or that good to find out faults in the recordings. I am afraid though the phone itself does it.

 

[castleofargh]

  But against my expectations, my Sony Xperia T distorts higher frequencies. I have to find out what it causes: or my earphones distorted because they were that bad, or that good to find out faults in the recordings. I am afraid though the phone itself does it.

cellphones usually don't like low impedance IEMs. with a relatively sensitive 100ohm can, most crap cellphones could actually give very reasonable sound(at least form the specs I've seen, I didn't look into the xperia).

 

[Ruben123]

 
cellphones usually don't like low impedance IEMs. with a relatively sensitive 100ohm can, most crap cellphones could actually give very reasonable sound(at least form the specs I've seen, I didn't look into the xperia).

And that is because of their high output impedance? - which causes frequency swings at BA or low impedance earphones

 

[RRod]

 
And that is because of their high output impedance? - which causes frequency swings at BA or low impedance earphones

 
Yes. It would be nice if there were standards for portable stuff, e.g. max 1ohm output impedance and ability to drive 50ohm / 100dB/mW cans to 115dB.

 

[castleofargh]

I also think it's one major potential cause of upgraditis, but not the only one. I admit. I like to get new gear, and that urge isn't just about the high of the sound. Time for something new just 'cause there is new technology or an improved model.

So it is an expectation for improved performance, but I believe it gets at a different set of psychological factors than that new aesthetic high addiction. Maybe more compulsion? Other values associated with having new equipment? When it comes to new technology, I feel driven to upgrade my phone, computer, and tablet every couple of years, which is not about an aesthetic type performance increase. It feels more like a tech/gear kind of performance thing. Does that make sense?

Or maybe it's an urge to collect, for those of us who buy equipment but rarely sell off the old.

I'm no doctor, but I feel like I can give you a pass on the "intervention" if your compulsive need to get a product comes every other year ^_^.
 
 
 

 

 
cellphones usually don't like low impedance IEMs. with a relatively sensitive 100ohm can, most crap cellphones could actually give very reasonable sound(at least form the specs I've seen, I didn't look into the xperia).

And that is because of their high output impedance? - which causes frequency swings at BA or low impedance earphones

in part probably, and I guess at some point we can also imagine the IEM distorting a little more from bad damping(but that would depend on the driver's tech, I doubt BA drivers care much about that? but the main reason from what I understand is that those cheap weak amp sections can't really deal with the current needed into a small load. you end up with more noise, more crosstalk, more distortions. most DAPs are like that too, in fact most amps are really happy and good into high impedance loads. but with headphones and IEMs getting lower and lower impedances, it's not going to in the ideal direction.
to me a good amp gives a better sound into IEMs mainly because of that. as it's rarely a power problem with IEMs.
 
but obviously the question is always to find out when more is too much and when it's not even audible.

 

[lamode]

  Here is an acoustic record from 1903 that I transferred electrically. This is the best I could come up with using that method... http://www.vintageip.com/xfers/libertybellmarch.mp3

 
Server seems to be down

 

[bigshot]

might take a second to load before it plays. If your browser won't play MP3s, you can right click on the link and download the linked file to your hard drive

 

[lamode]

  might take a second to load before it plays. If your browser won't play MP3s, you can right click on the link and download the linked file to your hard drive

 
No, the whole server is down. http://www.vintageip.com is not responding