[linuxworks]

not sure why people think 'pc audio' is hard.

its not.

but, whatever. its a bit like the cable wars. its not a rational thing; its the realm of 'emotions' and that can't be argued away with facts (it seems).

fact is, computers can clock out spdif JUST FINE and with as much accuracy as any cd transport. put your money in the dac and stop worrying about data clocking issues; modern dacs CAN quite decently deal with any amount of jitter that sound cards (good ones) put out. its simply a wives tale, at this point, more than a real life problem.

again, putting out spdif is not hard. decoding it is hard but its been solved by the dac chip makers for years, now.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif not sure why people think 'pc audio' is hard. its not. but, whatever. its a bit like the cable wars. its not a rational thing; its the realm of 'emotions' and that can't be argued away with facts (it seems). fact is, computers can clock out spdif JUST FINE and with as much accuracy as any cd transport. put your money in the dac and stop worrying about data clocking issues; modern dacs CAN quite decently deal with any amount of jitter that sound cards (good ones) put out. its simply a wives tale, at this point, more than a real life problem. again, putting out spdif is not hard. decoding it is hard but its been solved by the dac chip makers for years, now.

What he said. Those who haven't heard a PC audio set up that sounds as good as CDs must not be listening much. All it takes is Mac playing iTunes into a good DAC. It's that hard.

P

 

[linuxworks]

I should admit my bias, I guess; my current dac of choice is the AMB y2 (gamma2).

that sucker cures all evils, it seems (lol). no matter how 'bad' a signal from spdif I send in (even via ugly bad out of spec wiring) it does the right fixing to it to reclock, buffer and squirt out decently timed analog data

so, given that that dac supports the ASRC chip and also uses a decent crystal (er, I mean, cirrus) receiver chip, I stopped *caring* about jitter on the pc. its a complete non issue with this $200-class dac.

if you have a more expensive dac and it does not 'fix' jittery spdif sources, blame your dac. today, that's the blamable device (imo).

 

[DoYouRight]

true story.

My main worry is just options and software. I dont want to be limited by my PC to rates that my DAC can handle in spades because of a random usb card. If you dont run a laptop its not an issue at all.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif not sure why people think 'pc audio' is hard. its not. but, whatever. its a bit like the cable wars. its not a rational thing; its the realm of 'emotions' and that can't be argued away with facts (it seems). fact is, computers can clock out spdif JUST FINE and with as much accuracy as any cd transport. put your money in the dac and stop worrying about data clocking issues; modern dacs CAN quite decently deal with any amount of jitter that sound cards (good ones) put out. its simply a wives tale, at this point, more than a real life problem. again, putting out spdif is not hard. decoding it is hard but its been solved by the dac chip makers for years, now.

PC audio in general gets a bad rap on Head-Fi. I've not had a problem with the headphone out on plenty of PCs (obviously it can be improved, but I think the adage that the cheap USB receiver/DAC chips are better than even the integrated audio isn't true anymore, but it doesn't cost a lot to improve either). Part of the reason is that I think with PC audio is that people don't really just sit back and listen like they do with CD/vinyl.

Something else I'd like to point out is that a lot of non-Mac laptops have optical out via headphone jack.

 

[DoYouRight]

just lack of volume and power for certain cans. but it is overblown here. Mainly because people listen while reading this site and miss alot of details so when they sit back to review they hear all this new stuff that was there before!

Should make 1 hour a day without pc for pc audio users mandatory.

 

[Currawong]

IMO, until someone gets out an oscilloscope and posts a bunch of measurements and listening tests, it's all just who believes what. I'd personally love to know the explanation for some of the things I've heard (or not heard).

 

[curiousmuffin]

i happen to have a pretty decent dac myself (modded lite dac 60 with amperex 6922 nos goldpin [arguably one of the best and most expensive tube of its kind!]) hooked up to a chaintech av710 soundcard outputting foobar via kernel stream 44.1 bitperfect, however, i also cannot shake the feeling of mp3-plastickiness from my speakers. i could very well be nuts for what i also have is an el84 tube amp going to paper cone/silk tweeter diy speakers- all to combat the digital harshness to an analogue victory. but since i can even distinguish oversampling/dither effects rather clearly with such a revealing setup, i must say what i hear is most definitely the shortcoming of the mp3 file. im suspecting the main culprit to be the 30 feet long ultra skinny super cheap optical cable i use to get the signal out from the computer that i put in the closet for being unable to afford a totally silent one. i mean this cable has no shielding of any kind. its just the optical fiber itself with a rubber cover. cost me $7 in korean currency. is my suspicion accurate? or should i look into a new soundcard also? i've already ordered some fine cables from ebay including power cords and silver fuses. never thought this hobby could be more addictive than being hooked on hard drugs. xP

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMO, until someone gets out an oscilloscope and posts a bunch of measurements and listening tests, it's all just who believes what. I'd personally love to know the explanation for some of the things I've heard (or not heard).

I agree, with the understanding that if it isn't blind, it isn't a test; it's just listening. It would not settle the argument, though. People will believe what they believe in the face of all kinds of evidence against it. And in the audiophile world we have a good 20 years of rejecting measurement and meaningful specifications in favor of poetic terms like "musical," pseudo-specs like PRaT, and subjective evaluations that we mistake for objective observations. They allow us to believe everything our psychological biases put in our heads.

P

 

[tosehee]

I use the Mac Pro with optical out to Ref1 which provides the reclocking, and I gotta tell you that playing songs on iTune is NOT the best way to me. I tried Amarra and it was evidently less harsh and more easy listening. If both softwares put out bit perfect, then what makes up the difference?

I don't know how reclocking performance differs from my DAC and yours, but bit perfect alone is NOT the explanation for these differences.

I have a spare PC that I used as a file server. I installed Vista 64 there and run the foobar with WASAPI. Then, I output the sound using onboard coax. I also happen to have Airport Express.

I played the specific song that I am very familiar with on repeated mode and I listen to it using these methods.

1. PC -> Coax -> BNC Converter -> Ref1 -> Phoenix -> HD 800
2. Airport Express -> Opitcal out -> Ref1 -> Phoenix -> HD 800
3. Mac Pro -> Optical out -> Ref1 -> Phoenix -> HD 800.

Out of these two, #1 and #2 comes very close with occasional music glitches. #3 seems to be harsh to me until I use the Amarra..

In theory, they all should sound the same. But in real life, they aren't. By the way, they all should put out the bit perfect output and reclocking on my DAC should cause the playback experience to be identical... well, in theory, that is.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif What he said. Those who haven't heard a PC audio set up that sounds as good as CDs must not be listening much. All it takes is Mac playing iTunes into a good DAC. It's that hard. P

Or it's the other way around where those with PC set ups have never really heard many dedicated high end CD players to reference as a comparison.

 

[MaZa]

OP. In your X-Fi use Audio Creation mode, and enable Bit-Matched Playback in Audio Control Panel, and use ASIO, KS or WASAPI on your player. With this it should be as good as any CD based transport.


That is, if your X-Fi really is X-Fi. All X-Fi's straight from the cheapest Xtreme Music supported Bit-Perfect Output originally. Later creative brough into market a soundcard labeled as X-Fi Xtreme Audio, but IN TRUTH IT IS JUST GLORIFIED AUDIGY. And Audigy does not support bitperfect output, but does a resampling of its own and that damaged soundquality. Most likely Xtreme Audio suffers from the same.

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif so, given that that dac supports the ASRC chip and also uses a decent crystal (er, I mean, cirrus) receiver chip, I stopped *caring* about jitter on the pc. its a complete non issue with this $200-class dac.

Hmmm.... ASRC, you say?

Can a y2 be built as a receiver/reclocker only and send out coax/bnc? Can it handle 24/96, or dare I say 24/192?

If so, a solution like that would seem to be superior to most off the shelf usb->spdif options.

Curious.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmmm.... ASRC, you say?

is there an echo here? (lol).

Quote:

Can a y2 be built as a receiver/reclocker only and send out coax/bnc? Can it handle 24/96, or dare I say 24/192?

once you receive, its in i2s format. then that is upsampled in the asrc chip and I believe its still kept at i2s to the dac.

the asrc is shown taking IN B/LRclock and data, etc (i2s); and also putting out the same. so its not an spdif in/out process anymore, at that point.

and i2s isn't really an offboard protocol (not really) and so shipping that out to another dac box would not be the best way to do things.

I think, though, if you have the usb pcm chip send 'up' i2s data, then THAT could be sent into asrc, etc. but I'm not sure if usb has that path in the y2 box, as designed.

 

[markw51]

Here's what I've just learned since getting more into computer and headphone audio.

Use some king of vibration damping under your pc.
Mapleshade Audio Products - Maple Isobase Cradle for Laptops & Other Portables

Use a good quality USB cable like Monster between the PC and the DAC.

Put vibation damping devices like tip toes under the DAC.

Sound ridiculous but makes a significant difference, even for streaming audio.