[linuxworks]

vibration under the dac?

that's rich.

lol

the mind certainly likes to fool users into thinking all kinds of bizarre ideas are at play.

I assure you, there's no science to 'vibration damping' a dac. none at all. sorry.

 

[markw51]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif vibration under the dac? that's rich. lol the mind certainly likes to fool users into thinking all kinds of bizarre ideas are at play. I assure you, there's no science to 'vibration damping' a dac. none at all. sorry.

So you tried it? Oh I see.

 

[linuxworks]

no need to try what has no basis for actually DOING anything.

snapping your fingers keeps tigers away, too. have you tried it? it works!

you are the one suggesting outrageous non-science concepts. its not up to me to prove YOUR bizarre idea works. its up to you to support your idea. so support it. go ahead, I'd LOVE to know the REASON behind this strange idea of yours.

 

[MaZa]

All kinds of noise that vibrations or electric noise causes are analog in nature, and when there is both analog and digital signals in same cable, receiver only picks up the digital ignoring the analog crap all together unless the digital signal cant get through at all for reason or another, but even then the signal just cuts and you have big problems somewhere in the chain.

A good example:

Analog is a wave signal and when there is noise, it shapes that wave. It can be a wanted thing, like in case of analog EQs, or unwanted like electronic noise and buzz.

Digital is written information, data, that is transmitted in pulses, be it light or electric. It doesnt matter what the signal "looks like" but what is actually written in it. Even if some noise manages to hamper the signal, it doesnt matter as long as the "text can be read" and end result at the receiving device is exactly same as it is with pure signal. You want to change it, you need to rewrite the information somehow, be it through DSP (in case of audio) or whatever.

Of course there are SPDIF related stuff like jitter that can affect digital signal, (measurably atleast) but that is different subject from noise, especially analog one. So basically, all those antivibration stuff affecting digital audio quality is full of s*** without any basis anywhere.

 

[linuxworks]

like I said, the burden of proof is on those who believe this crazy vibration-affects-digital stuff.

the apologists will have to do much better than 'but but but, have you TRIED it?'.

much better. like, give theory behind it or even measurements that were done correctly.

 

[DoYouRight]

would running something like bauers stereo to binaural in foobar mess up quality too bad? it uses Jan Meiers algorithm for crossfeed. I cant tell if I like it better or not. Or Dolby Headphone?

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoYouRight /img/forum/go_quote.gif would running something like bauers stereo to binaural in foobar mess up quality too bad? it uses Jan Meiers algorithm for crossfeed. I cant tell if I like it better or not. Or Dolby Headphone?

Thats up to you. Of course you are altering the signal so objectively "it is not as good as original". Jan Meiers happen in the analog world, altering the the signal just in the way he wanted it, and Bauer attempts to imitate it in digital world, with more or less similar end result (even though I have both, I havent compared them). In any case, if you like Crossfeed go a head and use it. I very rarely use one anymore.

I dont understand the use of Dolby Headphone in stereo music. Its use afterall is in movies where it tries to make from multi-channel audio to two channels and place the sounds more or less accurate places around your head with some kind of virtual surround effect.

 

[tosehee]

I have posted this on another thread, but I tried optical output from AE, Mac Pro and Coaxial from PC using Foobar + Wasapi plugin.

I also tried Amarra and w/o it.

I do hear a difference in all three. The very minor or no differences in AE vs. Coaxial, but fairly noticeable difference between Amarra and non.

If Amarra and iTune is bit perfect, then there is something else is going on.

I don't think bit perfect is the only thing that makes up the sound here.

p.s.: Sound check and etc are unclicked on iTunes setting in case someone asks.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif like I said, the burden of proof is on those who believe this crazy vibration-affects-digital stuff.

We have no burden of proof. We hear the improvement, so we use what sounds best. The only reason we'd have to prove it is to win a silly little argument on the web which isn't worth the investigation, and regardless of data will never change anyone's mind that's made up.

We get it. You don't believe it based on theory (not experience), so why draw it out with the back and forth? There are many threads that go this same route without resolution. Probably almost identical to the path that these arguments have taken, and I can guarantee they will end up without resolution.

So, some believe, some don't. Neither is crazy and we use what we think work. Others don't, because they don't think it works.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif We have no burden of proof. We hear the improvement, so we use what sounds best. The only reason we'd have to prove it is to win a silly little argument on the web which isn't worth the investigation, and regardless of data will never change anyone's mind that's made up. We get it. You don't believe it based on theory (not experience), so why draw it out with the back and forth? There are many threads that go this same route without resolution. Probably almost identical to the path that these arguments have taken, and I can guarantee they will end up without resolution. So, some believe, some don't. Neither is crazy and we use what we think work. Others don't, because they don't think it works.

There is a difference between arguing about cables conducting analog signal and such versus how digital signal works and what affects it and what not. First one atleast has some room for belief (personally I am indifferent.) especially because of how delicate analog signal is, but claiming that vibration affects digital signal is just bollocks in every way. IF it would, I wouldnt be writing this response because my computer would have crashed by now. Windows wouldnt even start actually. So it just cannot work in both theory AND practice. There are things people claim that can be labeled as BS right from the start. Digital just doesnt work that way no matter how many but's. Again, digital is information not too different from written text as an idea. Its the content that is read.

The thing that tosehee posted above is a different story, and actually the topic of this thread. How transport affects sound in SPDIF is quite unknown to me, with jitter and reclocking and all. And this is different subject from mechanic vibration and analog noise.

 

[tosehee]

I wasn't posting about mechanical vibration and such. Sounds like a BS to me, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is a difference between arguing about cables conducting analog signal and such versus how digital signal works and what affects it and what not. First one atleast has some room for belief (personally I am indifferent.) especially because of how delicate analog signal is, but claiming that vibration affects digital signal is just bollocks in every way. IF it would, I wouldnt be writing this response because my computer would have crashed by now. Windows wouldnt even start actually. So it just cannot work in both theory AND practice. There are things people claim that can be labeled as BS right from the start. Digital just doesnt work that way no matter how many but's. Again, digital is information not too different from written text as an idea. Its the content that is read. The thing that tosehee posted above is a different story, and actually the topic of this thread. How transport affects sound in SPDIF is quite unknown to me, with jitter and reclocking and all. And this is different subject from mechanic vibration and analog noise.

 

[RicHSAD]

I would really like to know how vibration can somehow affect ones and zeros.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicHSAD /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would really like to know how vibration can somehow affect ones and zeros.

apparently, we can't *know* unless we TRY this silly-assed experiment.

(rolls eyes)

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif We have no burden of proof.

if you want to be taken seriously, you do have to prove or support this silly assertion of yours.

else, its just some Internet Guy(tm) ranting about stuff that makes no sense at all.

Quote:

We hear the improvement, so we use what sounds best.

you may think you do, but that's not the same as actually having improvement in the gear due to this snake-oil approach of yours.

if this phenomenon is real, there should be more than 'my ears say so'. so, is there more than that?

some of us need a lot more than personal anecdotes that are unverifyable. sorry if bringing logic to the discussion bothers you

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tosehee /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wasn't posting about mechanical vibration and such. Sounds like a BS to me, IMO.

Sorry if I wasnt clear. I meant to say that the post you said was closer to actual topic of this thread. How/Do bit-perfect SPDIF transports affect soundquality or not. And frankly this is subject that is unknown to me.

The claim that vibrations affect the meaning behind the long row of zeroes and ones is off topic. Again going back to analog cables for a while, both critics and believers both believe and know that analog signal is quite vulnerable. Problem is that if those veeeeeeeery slight alterations cable causes (there are some, even measured) are audible or are they so small that some of them could be even accounted for measuring error. This digital vs. vibration subject has no room for anything like that. End of the subject for me. I follow this transport thing with great interest though.