Side By Side Comparison - AirPods Max, B&O H95, Dali iO-6, B&W PX8, ML 5909, M&D MW75, Focal Bathys and more
Jul 16, 2023 at 1:21 AM Post #286 of 464
And then I recently picked up the Airpods Max which has nice big and deep earcups with excellent ANC. Very comfortable headphones to wear for extended periods. It's only really an option if you have an iPhone/iPad/Macbook though. Then it works beautifully.
For Bluetooth, APM work as well as any non-multipoint headphones with non-Apple sources. The only thing I can think of that is missing is battery life display on the receiver side, but you can still view it on your iPhone. For wired mode, it does require that $35 cable, but beyond that, it works as well as any other ANC headphones I've owned. I hardly ever use my APM with my Apple gear, and the "ecosystem" wasn't a consideration when I bought them.
 
Jul 17, 2023 at 2:33 AM Post #287 of 464
For Bluetooth, APM work as well as any non-multipoint headphones with non-Apple sources. The only thing I can think of that is missing is battery life display on the receiver side, but you can still view it on your iPhone. For wired mode, it does require that $35 cable, but beyond that, it works as well as any other ANC headphones I've owned. I hardly ever use my APM with my Apple gear, and the "ecosystem" wasn't a consideration when I bought them.
Sure, you're right of course. But you do get the best experience within the Apple ecosystem.
 
Jul 20, 2023 at 3:55 AM Post #288 of 464
Hi there, since the Bathys is of topic here (and maybe also other headphones have the possibility of a USB-C input selection like the B&W PX8?), I am sharing a post from the Bathys thread that also might be interesting for you:

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Wireworld Starlight 8 USB 3.1 Audio Cable Review

Alright guys, since I got very intrigued by @LifeAspect ´s and @coldbru ´s mentioning of the Wireworld Starlight 8 USB 3.1 cable, I reached out to the German distributor and asked for an example of the 1 meter cable in exchange for an honest review (using the cable with my Bathys). I was a musician and producer about 15 years ago but changed my career and got a writer … as well as an audiophile listener.

Back then when I had the Focal Stellia in my possession, I already reviewed some cables for other boutique manufacturers, although these (e.g. silver/palladium) cables were priced around 2k $, and so about 10 times as expensive as the Wireworld cable. It was a completely different take as they were cables for analogue signals and I used them with my LGPT Ti DAP. So it was a VERY expensive „portable“ rig I had about two years ago. But back to the Bathys:

When I got these headphones, I mainly used them with the original USB-C cable from Focal (and my Samsung Galaxy s10e).

But first things first: the EQ
I only use them with this EQ

-2.5db/62Hz
-2db/250Hz
+1.5db/1kHz
+2db/4kHz
+1.5db/16kHz

Which is a slight alteration of what @Nomax suggests (thanks again for your findings with your "golden ears") 👍

BUT as some albums are mastered rather quietly (such as: Stevie Wonder - Talking Book, Steely Dan - Two Against Nature, Bab Marley and the Wailers albums etc. etc.) I just boosted all frequencies across the whole spectrum for exactly 4 dB, which afterwards looks like this:

+1.5db/62Hz
+2db/250Hz
+5.5db/1kHz
+6db/4kHz
+5.5db/16kHz

I tested it: It sounds the same as above, doesn’t distort etc. It just makes everything louder and gives you more headroom to play with on the mobile phone or laptop. BUT please take care of your ears! Of course you have to make the music quieter when listening to „normal compressed“ modern music. In fact the Focal engineers knew that they had to implement the EQ in a way so that boosting all frequencies doesn’t distort the sound by any way and just makes it … well, louder.

Anyways, this EQ, in my opinion, is what an album should sound like. How would I know that? Well, I spent uncountable hours of my life in studios with recording-, mixing- and mastering-engineers. So at least I know how the albums I produced myself should sound like. This EQ comes closest to that feeling I had back then in the mixing- and mastering studios (and probably also approaches the Harman curve).

So, now that we’ve got that covered, I’d like to get back to the USB cables. With the original Focal USB-C cable, I didn’t find anything to complain about sound wise. But at the same time I sensed that the Bathys could squeeze out more (better sounding) music with the right cable. I came to that conclusion because at the beginning I was listening with an iPhone. I bought an ordinary chi-fi cable (Meenova) from AliExpress with a lightning adapter on one end. It sounded okay-ish. Then I bought the Apple Camera Kit adapter and connected the Focal USB-C to the Apple dongle. Well, what can I say: It sounded better. Then I ditched my iPhone and bought an android phone. And again: It sounded better to directly connect the Bathys with the USB-C to the mobile phone. Then again, when connecting the Focal USB-C with my MacBook Pro it sounded - surprise surprise - even better than with my Samsung mobile. As you see, I heard differences between different devices with different cables AND between different devices with the same cable. So that’s why I thought that an upgrade cable might result in an even better sound. This was the time where I remembered some head-fiers talking about a Wireworld cable. And the rest is … well, not „history“ but this review:

The Starlight 8 USB-C cable just sounds damn „right“. It takes the Bathys to a new level. Not to a „whole“ new level, but a new level nonetheless. And it doesn’t come with its downsides. But the great things first:

The bass frequencies are right there where I want them. And NO, I wouldn’t have achieved that by just raising the bass in the Focal app. I tried, believe me, I tried many many many different EQ profiles over the last few months. You will never get THAT bass. Because I felt that the cable somehow managed to raise the sub-bass beneath 62Hz. And in addition it feels like the mid bass got more punch. It is more THERE. Felt. Not only heard. Again: This wouldn’t have been able by adding more mid-bass to the EQ, which would have resulted in bloated lower mids (also looking at you, dear Stellia).

Continuing to the mids, I have only one mighty word: transparent. And I don’t want nothing else from the mids. They should be present and clean and transparent. Not bloated (lower mids), not piercing (upper mids). But clean. And I get that with the Wireworld cable.

And the highs? They are nicely extended, don’t pierce, don’t sound artificial. I repeat myself, I didn’t get the same results by rising the highs even more in the EQ. It just got artificially sounding. Too much bass isn’t good, in the same way too much highs are not good either (for your ears, for long term listening, for enjoying the music as the „artist intended“ it when recording their songs). All the details are there, but not thrown in your face. A mature tuning.

But the frequencies don’t cover up the whole cake, do they? What about sound as a whole?

What I experienced right away when listening to the Wireworld cable with my test-tracks was the stereo panorama. Man, this cables transforms the Bathys into a 3D sounding headphone. It literally feels like being in the midst of a band. With the singer prominently right in the middle and the left and right sounds going easily beyond the cups. But also the depth increases by quite a margin! I don’t only hear the music in front of me, it rather envelopes me. Separation is great. Macro dynamics as with all Focal headphones superb, but also micro details - with songs that I know by heart - are all there and then some.

Guys, I know, some of you will laugh at me, but yes, this combination beats the Focal Stellia! It does. And not only the Stellia alone (with its stock cables) but also with the combination of the palladium/silver cables I had back then. I don’t have that „rig“ in possession any more, also not the LGPT Ti. But the Bathys with the Wireworld sounds better. I can say that because so many of my favourite albums sound the way they have to. No niggling needed anymore (at least what concerns the sound). And I niggled a lot when listening through my old „rig“ worth about 10k $! And that’s crazy, when considering how „affordable“ the Bathys are in comparison to the Stellia, right? The Stellia always had too much mid-bass that would bleed into the lower mids. It was difficult to tame the upper-mid bump that caused ear-fatigue. And the highs had a metallic sheen that wouldn´t go away. It was a shame for that price (at least when compared to the price of the Bathys). All that is gone with the possibility to EQ the Bathys. And of course the DSP in the right earcup also does the trick. In combination with the Wireworld cable the Bathys soundwise outshines so many headphones it puts a smile on my face. It´s really hard to believe but I trust my ears for over two decades now. This is a killer set!

But I don’t want that review to sound like a miracle (although the cable has its „magic“), and as I am an audio enthusiast as you guys are, of course I will also tell you the downsides of that cable … so you can decide for yourself if it´s worth a shot.

Five things.

1. It costs about 200 $/€ (for the 1 meter version). For most of us this is a lot. I know. But when you think about the terrific deals right now you get for a new pair of Bathys, then you might take the plunge for that cable in order to hear it how it sounds at its best.

2. You might or might not like its looks. I like that „technically-engineer“ vibe very much. As said, in the analogue world there are so many cable manufacturers who offer bling bling cables for many thousands of dollars. And I can see how one might like that (because I liked that, too, haha), but this red cable, IMO, gives that „grey“ looking headphones a nice spicy touch.

3. It has some cable noise, not much more than the original Focal cable. When listening to music I don’t hear anything from the cable when going around so it doesn´t bother me at all. But most of us won´t run around with that cable anyways.

4. That point might be a real bummer for most of us, it is stiff. Yes. Stiff it is. Why? Because it wasn’t made for the Bathys. We wouldn’t even need the USB 3.1. I guess USB 2.0 would be suffice for high res music. But this is the only Wireworld cable with USB-C on both ends of the cable. Anyhow, this cable isn’t made for jogging. Of course you might use it at your desk, on your couch, or when on commute with the train/plane etc., and you might even use it when moving around the house or for „small“ homework where you don’t have to move a lot.
That being said, I also use them when walking around the city, like going from A to B. Does it look weird? I don’t think so. I know, some of you don’t even leave the house with the Bathys. Me personally, I don’t care.

5. The cable is only available in two lengths: 0.6 meters and 1 meter. I have got the 1 meter version and of course I thought that 1 meter is too short (against the standard length of 1.2 meters). But, to my surprise, it wasn’t. In fact I think 1.2 meters would be too long for this cable. Why? Because - and this correlates to point 4 - this cable doesn’t bend like a „normal“ cable. It has, as you can see from the pics down below, a somewhat flat design. That’s also because the power cord has its own space and therefore doesn’t interfere with the other cords that deliver the signals (which, I reckon, is one of the main plus points that results in that great sound). What I want to say is, that this cable, when „worn“ with the Bathys and my mobile phone in my left back pocket, kind of folds around my body like a spiral. As said above, it isn’t the most flexible cable out there (to put it mildly), as it wasn’t designed for walking around. But it works for me (I am no jogger). So point 5 (the length of the cable) isn’t really a „bad“ thing. I fact I wouldn’t even urge Wireworld to produce 1.2 meter cables (at least not with that cable layout). But if they would achieve to create a USB-C cable that would be more pliable than the Starlight 8, and also won’t compromise on the sound quality, that of course would be great.

Oh, and here is the link to the Wireworld Website if you want to read more about the cables´ design, conductor material, insulation etc.:
https://wireworldcable.com/products/starlight-8-usb-3-1-audio-cables

I know there are many of you who think a digital signal is a digital signal and why would it sound different on different cables? It´s just 1´s and 0´s that pass that cable, right? Nope, that’s not the case. As I read from another audiophile: USB cables don’t pass 1’s and 0’s, they pass voltage signals which are interpreted as 1’s and 0’s. Voltage below a certain level is interpreted as a 0 and voltage above a certain level is interpreted as a 1. Anything that interferes with the voltage signal can cause the data to be misinterpreted by the DAC …

But I am no engineer or technician. Last time I checked I was just a guy with two ears 😜

So, that’s it. I will continue rediscovering all my beloved albums with the Starlight 8 … and I hope you will, too, with or without that cable (… but at least, please, try my EQ I mentioned above with the USB-C connected to the Bathys, preferably connected to your laptop/computer!! Some of you maybe will „miss“ the bloated bass, haha, but as soon as your ears/brains settle in, I am sure you will appreciate that balanced tuning for long listening sessions.)


And now, finally, let’s move on to some pics:


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Jul 20, 2023 at 9:01 AM Post #289 of 464
So wait a minute, you're reviewing a USB-C cable for a digital connection and saying it sounds different/better?

Get outta here! This is complete nonsense. The 1s and 0s will be exactly the same.
 
Jul 20, 2023 at 11:11 AM Post #291 of 464
Jul 20, 2023 at 12:07 PM Post #292 of 464
I know there are many of you who think a digital signal is a digital signal and why would it sound different on different cables? It´s just 1´s and 0´s that pass that cable, right? Nope, that’s not the case. As I read from another audiophile: USB cables don’t pass 1’s and 0’s, they pass voltage signals which are interpreted as 1’s and 0’s. Voltage below a certain level is interpreted as a 0 and voltage above a certain level is interpreted as a 1. Anything that interferes with the voltage signal can cause the data to be misinterpreted by the DAC …

But I am no engineer or technician. Last time I checked I was just a guy with two ears 😜
"But I am no engineer or technician. Last time I checked I was just a guy with two ears 😜"
You don't say...
I'm just hoping no one reads your post and then actually buys the cables off of your super misguided review of them.
 
Jul 20, 2023 at 2:23 PM Post #293 of 464
Guys, these are my personal, subjective findings. No need to be mean. Mind you, I am no newbie and have worked in the music business for nearly 20 years. I am not forcing you to believe or buy something. For you 200$ might be way too much, for many other audiophile listeneners, these would be entry level cables. I don‘t dictate how our market works … and audiophile gadgets most of the time are expensive, alas. You don‘t want others to laugh at you just because your findings are that a 800 Euros Bathys sounds better than an 80 Euros headphone most of the other listeners are completely happy with, do you? Please stop degradeing others.
 
Jul 20, 2023 at 4:13 PM Post #294 of 464
No denigration implied, apologies. People can and should spend their money how they're comfortable (Head-Fi in a nutshell).

Suffice to say cables are a rathole on this forum; I personally have no experience nor expertise that suggests a USB C cable would have any impact at all on the reproduction of digital audio, let alone a very expensive one. That's all I meant to imply.
 
Jul 20, 2023 at 8:30 PM Post #295 of 464
If this were an analog cable you were talking about, I'd still say it was nonsense but also acknowledge that perhaps *you* hear a difference, even if only due to cable impedance differences and poor volume matching.

But for digital cables, sorry, that's complete BS. I guarantee you that in a double-blind test, or any other objective test, there would be 0 difference with any other compatible USB-C cable. It's literally transmitting 1s and 0s, and a $5 cable will do that just as well and the digital data will be no different (and thus it'll sound exactly the same).
 
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Jul 21, 2023 at 2:43 AM Post #296 of 464
If this were an analog cable you were talking about, I'd still say it was nonsense but also acknowledge that perhaps *you* hear a difference, even if only due to cable impedance differences and poor volume matching.

But for digital cables, sorry, that's complete BS. I guarantee you that in a double-blind test, or any other objective test, there would be 0 difference with any other compatible USB-C cable. It's literally transmitting 1s and 0s, and a $5 cable will do that just as well and the digital data will be no different (and thus it'll sound exactly the same).

I always found funny that data transmission could be influenced by USB-C cables ...
But, I am even more surprised, when I imagine some here believe that bluetooth at 250Kbps AAC ultra compressed transmission can be as good or even better than a 990Kbps LDAC (far nearer the 80's old CD sound quality)..
 
Jul 21, 2023 at 2:46 AM Post #297 of 464
If this were an analog cable you were talking about, I'd still say it was nonsense but also acknowledge that perhaps *you* hear a difference, even if only due to cable impedance differences and poor volume matching.

But for digital cables, sorry, that's complete BS. I guarantee you that in a double-blind test, or any other objective test, there would be 0 difference with any other compatible USB-C cable. It's literally transmitting 1s and 0s, and a $5 cable will do that just as well and the digital data will be no different (and thus it'll sound exactly the same).
You didn’t even read my review. And you have no clue about signal transfer. A cable can‘t transmit 1s and 0s. Or do you think a „one“ is floating through the cable? And a „0“ is passing through? Come on, don’t make yourself silly. It’s about Voltage levels passing through that can be corrupted.
The first thing to consider is simply how noisy your source is, and what effect this may have on the receiving device. Using a higher quality source like an SMS200 Ultra will give you a much lower noise level on the output than a raspberry pi, and a raspberry pi will give you way less noise than a beefy gaming PC or something.
But how much this affects your DAC will depend on the level of noise and your DAC. Some DACs are incredibly susceptible to source noise, and some have full galvanic isolation on data and power and are effectively immune to even incredibly bad sources.
However you don’t need to spend tons of money. In fact you can get devices like the Intona 7055-C which provide full galvanic isolation and an incredibly low noise output for about $300.
There are of course also options like using an optical connection which inherently will not pass any noise as there is no electrical connection, it’s just light.
Grounding is also an important consideration, and some DACs WILL be affected by an ungrounded or galvanically isolated source (stuff like the ADI-2 for example is not grounded by the PSU and relies on USB ground, so can encounter significant issues when used behind a galvanic isolator), but many/most will not.

Anyways, let‘s agree to disagree. You know what you know and don‘t want to look over the fence. That’s alright by me.
 
Jul 21, 2023 at 3:46 AM Post #298 of 464
You didn’t even read my review. And you have no clue about signal transfer. A cable can‘t transmit 1s and 0s. Or do you think a „one“ is floating through the cable? And a „0“ is passing through? Come on, don’t make yourself silly. It’s about Voltage levels passing through that can be corrupted.
The first thing to consider is simply how noisy your source is, and what effect this may have on the receiving device. Using a higher quality source like an SMS200 Ultra will give you a much lower noise level on the output than a raspberry pi, and a raspberry pi will give you way less noise than a beefy gaming PC or something.
But how much this affects your DAC will depend on the level of noise and your DAC. Some DACs are incredibly susceptible to source noise, and some have full galvanic isolation on data and power and are effectively immune to even incredibly bad sources.
However you don’t need to spend tons of money. In fact you can get devices like the Intona 7055-C which provide full galvanic isolation and an incredibly low noise output for about $300.
There are of course also options like using an optical connection which inherently will not pass any noise as there is no electrical connection, it’s just light.
Grounding is also an important consideration, and some DACs WILL be affected by an ungrounded or galvanically isolated source (stuff like the ADI-2 for example is not grounded by the PSU and relies on USB ground, so can encounter significant issues when used behind a galvanic isolator), but many/most will not.

Anyways, let‘s agree to disagree. You know what you know and don‘t want to look over the fence. That’s alright by me.

You obviously don't understand how USB works. I suggest a simple experiment. Take a music file and generate a hash, transfer it over a cheap usb cable from one source to another. Check the Hash of the file at the destination. You can do this many times, let me know how often the hash doesn't match. Cheers.
 
Jul 21, 2023 at 3:59 AM Post #299 of 464
Talking cables is a very controverse topic. I get that and it’s everywhere the same. Weil, except maybe here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hig...ressions-pics-comparisons-and-reviews.804952/

There are also many other cable threads where you can discuss science.
Much more important than any cable science talk, that would derail this thread any further, is the EQ I suggested for the Bathys.

Have fun listening to your gear!
 
Jul 21, 2023 at 7:36 AM Post #300 of 464
You didn’t even read my review. And you have no clue about signal transfer. A cable can‘t transmit 1s and 0s. Or do you think a „one“ is floating through the cable? And a „0“ is passing through? Come on, don’t make yourself silly. It’s about Voltage levels passing through that can be corrupted.
The first thing to consider is simply how noisy your source is, and what effect this may have on the receiving device. Using a higher quality source like an SMS200 Ultra will give you a much lower noise level on the output than a raspberry pi, and a raspberry pi will give you way less noise than a beefy gaming PC or something.
But how much this affects your DAC will depend on the level of noise and your DAC. Some DACs are incredibly susceptible to source noise, and some have full galvanic isolation on data and power and are effectively immune to even incredibly bad sources.
However you don’t need to spend tons of money. In fact you can get devices like the Intona 7055-C which provide full galvanic isolation and an incredibly low noise output for about $300.
There are of course also options like using an optical connection which inherently will not pass any noise as there is no electrical connection, it’s just light.
Grounding is also an important consideration, and some DACs WILL be affected by an ungrounded or galvanically isolated source (stuff like the ADI-2 for example is not grounded by the PSU and relies on USB ground, so can encounter significant issues when used behind a galvanic isolator), but many/most will not.

Anyways, let‘s agree to disagree. You know what you know and don‘t want to look over the fence. That’s alright by me.
Yeah, in a double blind test I guarantee you that you would hear no difference. Or if you were to take a measurement of the output there would be no difference.
 

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