[Imperfectionist]

Bass is so relative to me... It can certainly be bass heavy if EQ'd to that. However, it's accurate and extended. The frequencies these things represent kinda trips me out. There are no parts of a bassline missing.... not muddy or boomy to me. 

For me, right out of the box, they were pretty clinical and balanced, but with a bit more bass than I'm used to, since it's a separate driver. I don't know how to describe it other than it's "real" sounding.

I like it a bit warmer so I swapped in the black filters and bumped the mids just a hair. It's perfect at that point.

You probably saw in my comment, but I find the highs to be fine, especially with the black filter in. I definitely don't get the "fatigue" I get with some other headphones.

I would identify as a music lover first and audio equipment nerd second. These, for me (and they should be for the price) are perception changing IEMs coming from more pedestrian stuff.

However, these are more accurate in many ways than some of my full sized headphones. Which is crazy to hear myself say it, but it's true.

Biggest thing (and I'm still playing) is experimenting with all the combos of filters and tips and amp and such.

Hope that's helpful.

I own a z1r and se846. To say the bass on the 846, as accurate and extended, you have yet to hear the bass on the z1r.
Only then, you realize that the bass on the 846 sounds very muddy and doesn't extends that much.

 

[hiholto]

I own a z1r and se846. To say the bass on the 846, as accurate and extended, you have yet to hear the bass on the z1r.
Only then, you realize that the bass on the 846 sounds very muddy and doesn't extends that much.

 
 
Hahahaha. Not quite sure if you're trolling me or not.
 
Apples and oranges? Not really certain how to respond to that one. I would imagine that a miniscule, half-eraser-sized driver probably does sound less impressive than a 70mm one thats literally bigger than my ear in an enclosure the size of a coconut and at a cost nearly 2.5 times as much.
 
I rarely even travel with my Momentum 2s, so I definitely can't imagine trying to stuff a pair of Z1Rs in my bag or pocket and listen on the go. 
 
I mean, I get what you're saying, and I'm sure that in comparison to the flagship the lows in a pair of earbuds don't extend as smoothly, but I think that comparison is out of left field completely? I will say they sound better than many of the full sized headphones I've heard, which I'd say is pretty astonishing overall.
 
The Z1Rs are definitely on my full sized wish-list, but I've just finally convinced myself to spend the most I ever have on the se846s. I envy you for having both, I can't even find a pair locally to try out!

 

[Imperfectionist]

Hahahaha. Not quite sure if you're trolling me or not.

Apples and oranges? Not really certain how to respond to that one. I would imagine that a miniscule, half-eraser-sized driver probably does sound less impressive than a 70mm one thats literally bigger than my ear in an enclosure the size of a coconut and at a cost nearly 2.5 times as much.

I rarely even travel with my Momentum 2s, so I definitely can't imagine trying to stuff a pair of Z1Rs in my bag or pocket and listen on the go. 

I mean, I get what you're saying, and I'm sure that in comparison to the flagship the lows in a pair of earbuds don't extend as smoothly, but I think that comparison is out of left field completely? I will say they sound better than many of the full sized headphones I've heard, which I'd say is pretty astonishing overall.

The Z1Rs are definitely on my full sized wish-list, but I've just finally convinced myself to spend the most I ever have on the se846s. I envy you for having both, I can't even find a pair locally to try out!

If you understand me completely, you would also realize that i am basing my debate on the accuracy and extension of the bass based on the merit of your ignorant statement alone.
On top of that, you have revealed that you have not even heard tj3 z1r, and making gross statements based on your insufficient knowledge.
Fyi, i have brought my z1r to canjam sg.

 

[hiholto]

   
I exactly know that feeling! You may wanna listen to Candyman by ZEDD, Aloe Blacc. That deep deeep deeeeep bass line.. Not only that, with all those dynamics and the stereo presentation.. Oh wait you must listen to the whole Home Suite Home by Patrick Williams. I can not describe it well enough. So you just go have a listen man.. There are many many more albums I cannot stop listening to in repeat mode. Like Ray of Light by Madonna, Pleasure Seeker by Paul Taylor. Those are just a few I'm addicted to lately.

Originally Posted by freshman66 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
My all time favourite to test audio equipment is Quincy Jones' "Smackwater Jack" album.

 
Great selections! I've been listening this afternoon. I hadn't head that Madonna album in years!
 
I got the hiss in the Smackwater album too, but it was still a great album musically, and the bass definitely shined. 
 
I also started digging through my oldies but goodies. Crystal Method's "Vega" album takes on a whole new life. Some of my old Depeche Mode tracks are getting a new listen as well. I'm sure I'll be going for days. Maybe we should start a thread specifically with tracks folks like for each headphone! hahahahha.
 
Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[hiholto]

If you understand me completely, you would also realize that i am basing my debate on the accuracy and extension of the bass based on the merit of your ignorant statement alone.
On top of that, you have revealed that you have not even heard tj3 z1r, and making gross statements based on your insufficient knowledge.
Fyi, i have brought my z1r to canjam sg.

 
I'm really not sure what you're on about at this point. I literally said in my post that I envy you for having a set and I've never heard them. Still doesn't invalidate my point. Apples and Oranges, overall...
 
What about my post is ignorant exactly? I agree that you're more than likely right, but disagree with your comparison and somewhat "1up-manship" tone in your original post. That's why I wasn't sure if you were pulling my leg.
 
I'm not saying the Z1Rs don't have more extended, accurate bass... I'm saying they SHOULD have that and that the comparison to a portable, half as expensive IEM is a bit confusing to me, specifically in reference to bass from a 70mm driver, one of the largest used. 
 
Sorry if it was insulting to you. I honestly thought you were trolling. 
 
Cheers!

 

[Imperfectionist]

I'm really not sure what you're on about at this point. I literally said in my post that I envy you for having a set and I've never heard them. Still doesn't invalidate my point. Apples and Oranges, overall...

What about my post is ignorant exactly? I agree that you're more than likely right, but disagree with your comparison and somewhat "1up-manship" tone in your original post. That's why I wasn't sure if you were pulling my leg.

I'm not saying the Z1Rs don't have more extended, accurate bass... I'm saying they SHOULD have that and that the comparison to a portable, half as expensive IEM is a bit confusing to me, specifically in reference to bass from a 70mm driver, one of the largest used. 

Sorry if it was insulting to you. I honestly thought you were trolling. 

Cheers!

You said that the bass on the 846 is accurate and extends well.

I am telling you that it isn't.

My statement is based solely on the premises of bass accuracy and extension.

And it actual fact, the bass on 846 is what many would consider as muddy and doesn't extends well.

Allow me to stress again that this is based on bass reproduction and extension as factors. Driver size doesn't means more accurate base and extension. It depends more of the tuning of its sound signature.

 

[freshman66]

My all time favourite to test audio equipment is Quincy Jones' "Smackwater Jack" album.

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I have just listened to that album. Not sure if it is just my source (Tidal HIFI to Apogee One to Sennheiser HD6XX) but I am hearing quite an audible tape-like hiss in the background. I don't think this is a good example to test out all of the capabilities of any HIFI equipment for that reason.

Well, obviously the album has been recorded in the 70ies but the remastered version produces absolutely no noise to my ears. Of course there are "cleaner" albums these days with higher dynamic bandwidth - but in the end it always comes down to personal liking

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[hiholto]

You said that the bass on the 846 is accurate and extends well.

I am telling you that it isn't.

My statement is based solely on the premises of bass accuracy and extension.

And it actual fact, the bass on 846 is what many would consider as muddy and doesn't extends well.

Allow me to stress again that this is based on bass reproduction and extension as factors. Driver size doesn't means more accurate base and extension. It depends more of the tuning of its sound signature.

 
You state things with authority but give no stats or facts to back it up. I'm no sound scientist, but I can just respond to you that to my ears, it is. 
 
My point is that everything is relative and for an IEM, it's some of the most accurate and extended bass presentation I've heard. There is separation and a distinct lack of muddiness to my ear simply based on the type of system it is and the fact I'm not hearing the bleed over in instruments and frequencies I often do. 
 
I hear lower frequencies in these 'phones than I've heard in many, many others at nearly all levels of volume. It's also coming at the right timing and covering the notes the songs intended it to cover (no "holes" in the range). On songs with punchy mid-bass... it reproduces it as well as my KEF R series room speakers. On super low dubs... it extends and rolls as smooth and low as my 12" sub. I have plugged it into my OP-1 synth and can hear keys I was never able to even hear before. It runs nearly the entire range of the sub bass and midbass kits. 
 
These are the very definitions of accuracy and extension... Are there headphones that do it BETTER and louder? I'm sure there are. That doesn't make the 846s "muddy" by standalone value. Are there IEM's at this price range and lower that do it better? Again it's very subjective, that sneaky bass, but I'd argue very few do if any on a purely objective level. It's literally one of the things mentioned in nearly every review of the product... The only thing you're missing that I love in my full sized phones is the literal "pressure" and air movement created by the large drivers... I FEEL the bass more in full sized headsets. 
 
I don't think I'm the one here being ignorant. 
 
I get it though. Thanks for the warm welcome. I appreciate you coming in the 846 thread to crap all over my new, fun experience with your vast knowledge and obviously superior Z1Rs!!!! You got me! 
 
You sir, have won the day! Bask in the glory of my defeat! One more ignorant, lowly noob to this audiophile scene made to feel unwelcome!
 
Wow. 
 
I'm done here. Sorry to others for polluting the thread with negativity. 

 

[hiholto]

Well, obviously the album has been recorded in the 70ies but the remastered version produces absolutely no noise to my ears. Of course there are "cleaner" albums these days with higher dynamic bandwidth - but in the end it always comes down to personal liking

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 
Totally. I didn't mean it as a reference song list necessarily, but totally see the point. I could hear the hiss in my copy, but it didn't detract from the greatness of the music and the BASS. hahahahahhaha. Where did you find the remastered versions? I'd love to check that out too.
 
All great suggestions from both of you. I spent all day listening to them at work. I'm stoked to check out a bunch of new stuff now. 
 
Thanks again!

 

[Imperfectionist]

You state things with authority but give no stats or facts to back it up. I'm no sound scientist, but I can just respond to you that to my ears, it is. 

My point is that everything is relative and for an IEM, it's some of the most accurate and extended bass presentation I've heard. There is separation and a distinct lack of muddiness to my ear simply based on the type of system it is and the fact I'm not hearing the bleed over in instruments and frequencies I often do. 

I hear lower frequencies in these 'phones than I've heard in many, many others at nearly all levels of volume. It's also coming at the right timing and covering the notes the songs intended it to cover (no "holes" in the range). On songs with punchy mid-bass... it reproduces it as well as my KEF R series room speakers. On super low dubs... it extends and rolls as smooth and low as my 12" sub. I have plugged it into my OP-1 synth and can hear keys I was never able to even hear before. It runs nearly the entire range of the sub bass and midbass kits. 

These are the very definitions of accuracy and extension... Are there headphones that do it BETTER and louder? I'm sure there are. That doesn't make the 846s "muddy" by standalone value. Are there IEM's at this price range and lower that do it better? Again it's very subjective, that sneaky bass, but I'd argue very few do if any on a purely objective level. It's literally one of the things mentioned in nearly every review of the product... The only thing you're missing that I love in my full sized phones is the literal "pressure" and air movement created by the large drivers... I FEEL the bass more in full sized headsets. 

I don't think I'm the one here being ignorant. 

I get it though. Thanks for the warm welcome. I appreciate you coming in the 846 thread to crap all over my new, fun experience with your vast knowledge and obviously superior Z1Rs!!!! You got me! 

You sir, have won the day! Bask in the glory of my defeat! One more ignorant, lowly noob to this audiophile scene made to feel unwelcome!

Wow. 

I'm done here. Sorry to others for polluting the thread with negativity. 

Kindly read through this thread : http://www.head-fi.org/t/592974/does-bigger-driver-mean-better-sound/0_30

 

[hiholto]

Awesome thread. Lots of people with varying opinions on the effect the size of a driver can have on sound? What's your point?

 

[freshman66]

Well, obviously the album has been recorded in the 70ies but the remastered version produces absolutely no noise to my ears. Of course there are "cleaner" albums these days with higher dynamic bandwidth - but in the end it always comes down to personal liking

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 
Totally. I didn't mean it as a reference song list necessarily, but totally see the point. I could hear the hiss in my copy, but it didn't detract from the greatness of the music and the BASS. hahahahahhaha. Where did you find the remastered versions? I'd love to check that out too.
 
All great suggestions from both of you. I spent all day listening to them at work. I'm stoked to check out a bunch of new stuff now. 
 
Thanks again!

I found the remastered version in my CD booklet It's been there for a long time and so I expect that all versions you can find now are probably the remastered one.
But really, you are getting my point - in order to compare the "sound" of some device to another you need to have heard the piece of sound very often. According to my age this is one of those CDs, along with quite a few other, notable ones from the past decades. I've listened to it so many times I can really hear the difference.
That said, I do own a couple of Dali reference CDs which have an amazing quality - I never listen to them. Total waste of money

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[hiholto]

Hahahaha. That's why I couldn't find it

Absolutely. That's what's blowing my mind going and listening to those albums you've heard s thousand times but now they seem new all over again! It's crazy. I frigging love good music.

The warmth of that album is amazing with or without hiss IMO.

 

[Imperfectionist]

Awesome thread. Lots of people with varying opinions on the effect the size of a driver can have on sound? What's your point?

That your opinionon 70mm drivers having more bass than the 846 is just also an opinion which is not a fact.
Driver type, housing design, materials all plays a factor into accuracy and extension of bass reproduction.
When comparing, it is much more useful to give a reference point as to which product are you comparing the 846 against with. By saying its accurate and extends further does nothing for anyone to base your statement on.

 

[ubs28]

I own a z1r and se846. To say the bass on the 846, as accurate and extended, you have yet to hear the bass on the z1r.
Only then, you realize that the bass on the 846 sounds very muddy and doesn't extends that much.

The bass of the Shure SE846 with the black filter on the Chord Mojo was great in comparison Z1R. The biggest difference was the treble extension and bigger soundstage when both are on the Chord Mojo. On the other hand the Shure SE846 has more neutral mids as the Z1R has a dip in the mid region.

On the Chord Dave the Z1R pulls away though but my only interest was for portable use which is why I was comparing them on the Mojo.