[SomeGuyDude]

Everyone obviously wants to squeeze maximal enjoyment out of their products, but on a sensitive headphone with low impedance provided your source is clean I have grave misgivings about any claims that it's "night and day" with this versus that, particularly in this time of excellent hardware in consumer electronics.
 
I'll definitely happily check out the same files on a laptop, phone, and dedicated DAP to see what's up, but I'm sure that unless I say "omg it was amazing" on the DAP people will claim my ears aren't "sophisticated" enough and the emperor's clothes really are beautiful. 

 

[spook76]

Further to MCoupe's first point, to really understand what a great recording can sound like and how important an engineer is, all you need to listen to is anything mixed/remastered by Steven Wilson. He is without question the greatest recording engineer working today.

Just take a listen to his remasters of some of King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, to name three, or his his own work with Porcupine Tree or Opeth and hear what a difference a properly mastered album sounds like. If you want him at his best go to Burningshed.com (his official site) and download one of the FLAC albums. Pure dynamically uncompressed goodness, I recommend the 24/48 of Fear of a Blank Planet.

 

[slick530]

The SQ of a smartphone compared to a DAP can be boiled down to the chip(s) that's decoding the audio files. A high-end DAP have a dedicated audio chip to do the decoding natively whereas a smartphone usually rely on an integrated processor to do the job by software. The scenario is kind of like relying on the CPU alone to play games versus a dedicated graphic card. It's night and day in most of the cases unless you use the smartphone mainly as a storage and line-out to a dedicated amp to do the decoding. In fact, even a high-end DAP alone wouldn't even be enough to fully unlock the sonic capabilities of the 846 so it's kind of a waste to see people spending a grand on the 846 and use it on an iPhone or Note 3. It's just overkill to me.

 

[spook76]

The SQ of a smartphone compared to a DAP can be boiled down to the chip(s) that's decoding the audio files. A high-end DAP have a dedicated audio chip to do the decoding natively whereas a smartphone usually rely on an integrated processor to do the job by software. The scenario is kind of like relying on the CPU alone to play games versus a dedicated graphic card. It's night and day in most of the cases unless you use the smartphone mainly as a storage and line-out to a dedicated amp to do the decoding. In fact, even a high-end DAP alone wouldn't even be enough to fully unlock the sonic capabilities of the 846 so it's kind of a waste to see people spending a grand on the 846 and use it on an iPhone or Note 3. It's just overkill to me.

Not to doubt the efficacy of a properly implemented DAP but be careful of your claims as most smartphones today have the same DACs as boutique, high end DAPs (Cirris Logic and Wolfson to name two). The secret lies in the implementation of the DAC chip not just the chip itself.

 

[slick530]

Not to doubt the efficacy of a properly implemented DAP but be careful of your claims as most smartphones today have the same DACs as boutique, high end DAPs (Cirris Logic and Wolfson to name two). The secret lies in the implementation of the DAC chip not just the chip itself.

It's partly true because the smartphone version of the DACs tend to have a lower grade (for instance the G3 have a class D) than their flagship offerings for high-end DAPs or amps. Signal interference from poor quality circuit boards do also take a huge toll on SQ. I think smartphone companies don't really bother implementing true high-end audio chips because it'll take a huge amount of R&D to perfect the sound plus 99‰ of the consumers just listen with crappy phones in the first place. So why bother. I don't think smartphones will be able to replace dedicated DAPs anytime soon.

 

[LFC_SL]

Everyone obviously wants to squeeze maximal enjoyment out of their products, but on a sensitive headphone with low impedance provided your source is clean I have grave misgivings about any claims that it's "night and day" with this versus that, particularly in this time of excellent hardware in consumer electronics.

I'll definitely happily check out the same files on a laptop, phone, and dedicated DAP to see what's up, but I'm sure that unless I say "omg it was amazing" on the DAP people will claim my ears aren't "sophisticated" enough and the emperor's clothes really are beautiful. 

Hyperbolic reviews such as on 6moons indeed mean nothing.

Still not really fair to keep knocking other members without offering an alternative review?

Legitimate to be sceptical as money does not grow on trees. But there is only so much you can keep saying 'you doubt' and 'you have not heard' and it becomes cyclical.

I know people draw a line in the sand for what they will spend when they have cars and mortgages to fund. That's cool but demo only costs time.

ppl who are sceptical about upgrades and diminishing returns are on every audio forum yet they never go out there and listen, even if only to report they still maintain.

 

[daviemcc]

It's partly true because the smartphone version of the DACs tend to have a lower grade (for instance the G3 have a class D) than their flagship offerings for high-end DAPs or amps. Signal interference from poor quality circuit boards do also take a huge toll on SQ. I think smartphone companies don't really bother implementing true high-end audio chips because it'll take a huge amount of R&D to perfect the sound plus 99‰ of the consumers just listen with crappy phones in the first place. So why bother. I don't think smartphones will be able to replace dedicated DAPs anytime soon.

I think this is just nonsense.

 

[ubs28]

edit: never mind.

 

[moedawg140]

edit: never mind.

What filters are you using? Pop in the black filters, and bam, not aggressive, more warm and a little more docile than say the whites or filter-less that would definitely be brighter and may be 'aggressive' to some.

Edit: I guess you can choose to reply or not.... :tongue_smile:

 

[Ivabign]

The only thing I can relate that is genuine is my own experience - I have an Phone 5 and a DX90. When I use any of my high end IEMs - there are subtle differences - they usually make their presence known at higher volumes - with the iPhone, there is a congestion or shouty nature to the reproduction that is not evident with the DX90 at similar volumes. It isn't night and day, but it is there...

 

[Pepito]

I generally find most areas outside of IEMs to be incremental goodness...which is great.

The only two areas I can think of that make what I would consider big differences are:
1. The music file. Was it a good recording to begin with? Is it heavily compressed? And so on.
2. Balanced amp

That being said, I am always eager to find another couple of points of improvement wherever I can find it.

I would love that illusive tweak to turn my 846 into 1,000,000,846

 
I would add: 3. DAC

 

[M Coupe]

A well implemented DAC will make a difference...fair enough.

 

[Jensenchua]

Now we have the DAPs vs Phones battle~~

 

[Whazzzup]

well my hpa8 blows my i phone away if thats a comparison, and yes within my music collection there is a wide array of recordings from compressed tunes to mind blowing expansive tunes. I just hope that apple keeps considering us audio folks in phone and i mac development.

 

[Pepito]

Hyperbolic reviews such as on 6moons indeed mean nothing.

Still not really fair to keep knocking other members without offering an alternative review?

Legitimate to be sceptical as money does not grow on trees. But there is only so much you can keep saying 'you doubt' and 'you have not heard' and it becomes cyclical.

I know people draw a line in the sand for what they will spend when they have cars and mortgages to fund. That's cool but demo only costs time.

ppl who are sceptical about upgrades and diminishing returns are on every audio forum yet they never go out there and listen, even if only to report they still maintain.

 
Great post LFC_SL!
 
Hear for yourself before attacking other members opinions. slick530 merely offered his point of view but got told to go back to the JH thread, quite the response I must say. 
 
Use head-fi's words as advice but your ears have the final say. My 2-cents on the source issue: it matters. I had a 5th gen iPod which I modded myself (re. RWAiMOD). For those that aren't familiar with the mod it involves soldering two wires to bypass the internal capacitors. Upon hearing the final product (iBasso D10 and IE8 at the time) I noticed greater resolution/clarity, tightened bass, fuller mids, extended treble and an increased soundstage. I had two other friends who helped me with the modding process. They heard my rig before and after and also noticed a difference from top to bottom. 
 
Bottom line: you have to hear it for yourself. I wasn't too worried about my source until I heard with my own ears. Who knew two little wires, better caps and improved circuitry could make a noticeable difference. Most of the smartphones/laptops out there do have good DAC's, but do you really think that they had sound quality as their number one priority? This is where a dedicated DAC comes in, its sole purpose is to convert 1 & 0's to an analog signal.