Shure SE846 Impressions Thread

[ZappaMan]

Interesting point of view

But I reckon that for most (if not all) of us people who spend this kind of money on on audio gear, the 846 is not their first pair of headhones or IEM's
One picks up the audio virus on the way, starting with cheaper and or lesser quality gear (at least, that's how it went for me)
Stepping up a level or two in sound quality every once and a while,

Following that route in audio desease/addiction, philosophically speaking, there is no genuine or fake; if it sounds good, it sounds good.
So just trust your ears
And in the case of the 846 even better, They should not sound good; they sound sweeeet!

Personally speaking, I’ve always listened to music but only recently got into headphones or expensive kit, so I can hold my hand up and say, it took me a few weeks to decide if they were legit. People raved about them and I wasn’t sure I was hearing that.
But slowly they did seem to burn in as such. But then they say it’s you’re brain breaking in, rather than the headphone.
Seems like enormous room to be in the dark - and remain there - it’s all so subjective - if only there was an app that could do a sound test/recording - to prove you had what you thought you had

 

[ZappaMan]

You should be able to hear the difference between genuine and fakes

If you dont hear it, you might as well buy fakes

Another interesting point. If you need better kit to get closer to the music, from that place, you are then musically educated/experienced to tell the difference between real and fake.

But if you bought the fake and thus never attained the musical education, then you’d never know any better.

I suppose realistically, it comes down to, how big a step up is this new headphone supposed to be, vs, how good is the counterfeit, in relation to the headphone you’re stepping up from.

Rambling - sorry.

 

[Justin_Time]

You should be able to hear the difference between genuine and fakes

If you dont hear it

You should be able to hear the difference between genuine and fakes

If you dont hear it, you might as well buy fakes

I must agree with you completely.

I failed to see why so many people are agonizing over something that is a rather trivial—definitely not philosophical—issue to me.

There are two,logical reactions to what we, hear from our items.

If they sound great to us, then who cares whether they are real or fake. We should just be happy and just enjoy the music.

If they do not sound as good as we expect them to,, then either we got a fake pair, or worse, you got a real pair but the quality is nowhere close to what is expected from something this expensive. Either way, we’re scr. . ed..

I have not heard a fake pair of 846 but I seriously doubt they sound nearly as good as the genuine article as very high quality is very difficult to fake. But it they do, then the genuine 846is way overpriced if they are that easy and inexpensive to duplicate.

About expectations, I would rank the musical experience with speakers ahead of that of headphones, themselves ahead of items, all of which are pretty far removed from the experience of live acoustic music in a symphony hall. So don't expect miracles. I compared the sound of the $3,000 Shure electrostatic iem to the $3,000 HE1000 v2: not even close. For the same amount of money, the HE1000 v2 sound so much better, and much closer to live music than the KSE1500,though both are still a long way away from concert hall experience.

 

[ZappaMan]

I must agree with you completely.

I failed to see why so many people are agonizing over something that is a rather trivial—definitely not philosophical—issue to me.

There are two,logical reactions to what we, hear from our items.

If they sound great to us, then who cares whether they are real or fake. We should just be happy and just enjoy the music.

If they do not sound as good as we expect them to,, then either we got a fake pair, or worse, you got a real pair but the quality is nowhere close to what is expected from something this expensive. Either way, we’re scr. . ed..

I have not heard a fake pair of 846 but I seriously doubt they sound nearly as good as the genuine article as very high quality is very difficult to fake. But it they do, then the genuine 846is way overpriced if they are that easy and inexpensive to duplicate.

About expectations, I would rank the musical experience with speakers ahead of that of headphones, themselves ahead of items, all of which are pretty far removed from the experience of live acoustic music in a symphony hall. So don't expect miracles. I compared the sound of the $3,000 Shure electrostatic iem to the $3,000 HE1000 v2: not even close. For the same amount of money, the HE1000 v2 sound so much better, and much closer to live music than the KSE1500,though both are still a long way away from concert hall experience.

i wasn’t agonising it’s just an interesting situation to find yourself in. You paid almost half price for the headphones, then you worry they are fake (my experience and a few other posted similarly). Then you have to try and rationalise - are they fake or not.

There’s a lot actually going on during this time when you’re trying to decide this, especially if this iem is a big jump from your previous one/experience.

Regards whether it’s philosophical or not, here’s something I pulled from the web.
.......
These and other questions of the “how do you know?” variety are the business of epistemology, the area of philosophy concerned with understanding the nature of knowledge and belief.

 

[csglinux]

If they sound great to us, then who cares whether they are real or fake. We should just be happy and just enjoy the music.

This is wrong on two levels.

1) You'll be missing something. Maybe you won't realize it, because you've never heard the authentic headphone, but you will be missing something.

2) Counterfeit goods can crush a product with a small margin. The work that went into the initial R&D and marketing sees no ROI and this stifles innovation.
There are plenty of excellent lower-priced headphones that aren't cheap fakes.
Please, please, please don't ever support counterfeiters - even if their products sound half-decent to your ears.

Actually three levels:
3) In the US, it is illegal to knowingly send counterfeit goods through the post.

 

[Justin_Time]

This is wrong on two levels.

1) You'll be missing something. Maybe you won't realize it, because you've never heard the authentic headphone, but you will be missing something.

2) Counterfeit goods can crush a product with a small margin. The work that went into the initial R&D and marketing sees no ROI and this stifles innovation.
There are plenty of excellent lower-priced headphones that aren't cheap fakes.
Please, please, please don't ever support counterfeiters - even if their products sound half-decent to your ears.

Actually three levels:
3) In the US, it is illegal to knowingly send counterfeit goods through the post.

I am afraid that you may be misinterpreting my post ...on several levels.

First nowhere in my post did I in any way shape or form support counterfeits. I simply said, if it sounds good, enjoy it. I assume, perhaps wrongly so, that anyone spending nearly a thousand dollars on a pair of tiny i.e.m. loves and knows what music sounds like and recognize whether the gear comes close to recreating it. If not, perhaps this is not the right quality or price level of iem to start. So again, where does the idea of me even suggesting support of counterfeit come from? I am at a lost.

Second, I have been working in R & D for over 25 years so I know a little about the cost of R&D and the need to protect IP. Real innovation and ultimately real quality, however, are not that easy to duplicate. We do not see any counterfeits of Stax SR-009, HiFiman HE1000, Audeze LDC4, Sennheiser HD800, or Focal Utopia. Innovative designs plus the use of high-tech—I.e. expensive—materials partly explain the high costs and preclude cheap imitation. For iem, eight years of R&D raises the cost of the Shure KE1500 to $3,000. The costs of Jerry Harvey iem’s are also in the stratosphere but I do not see any counterfeit for either product. I think because it is not that easy to duplicate high quality. I have not had the misfortune of purchasing a fake 846 but I am reasonably confident that if I had, I would immediately hear the difference.

Finally, if the counterfeit does come that close to the real thing, as some here have claimed, then it suggests that the 846 is not that difficult or expensive to build which suggests the real 846 is over-priced, R&D costs notwithstanding. I hope that is not the case. But with the runaway escalation of the costs of portable audio gears lately, who knows....

 

[csglinux]

So again, where does the idea of me even suggesting support of counterfeit come from?

There was a small clue in this line:

If they sound great to us, then who cares whether they are real or fake.

 

[Justin_Time]

There was a small clue in this line:

You are quite correct.

If it sounds great, the next logical reaction, to me anyway, is to enjoy the music.

It does not seem logical to me that after i’ve Heard something that sounds great to ask myself: is a genuine or a fake?

That would be a very odd reaction indeed.

While I do not condone and much less endorse the support of counterfeits, some of the experiences posted in the forum beg new question. If the “fake” 846 sounds so good as to be nearly distinguishable from the genuine article, unless one does a carefull A/B comparison, then how good is the genuine 846 really? And if it is that easy to duplicate the quality of the 846, is the high asking price justified? After many decades as audiophile hobbyist, I have seen (heard?) too many $10,000 pairs of cables that do not sound any different from cables costing a few hundred dollars not be somewhat suspicious of price escalation.

But, back to our topic, I for one refuse to believe that the exceptional sound quality of the Shure SE 846 is that easy to replicate and that a fake 846 is that hard to recognize. So, to elaborate on what I said: if it sounds great, it is the real thing. Enjoy the music and stop worrying about fakes. Unless you do not trust your ears. Then I can’t help you.

 

[phthora]

You are quite correct.

If it sounds great, the next logical reaction, to me anyway, is to enjoy the music.

It does not seem logical to me that after i’ve Heard something that sounds great to ask myself: is a genuine or a fake?

That would be a very odd reaction indeed.

While I do not condone and much less endorse the support of counterfeits, some of the experiences posted in the forum beg new question. If the “fake” 846 sounds so good as to be nearly distinguishable from the genuine article, unless one does a carefull A/B comparison, then how good is the genuine 846 really? And if it is that easy to duplicate the quality of the 846, is the high asking price justified? After many decades as audiophile hobbyist, I have seen (heard?) too many $10,000 pairs of cables that do not sound any different from cables costing a few hundred dollars not be somewhat suspicious of price escalation.

But, back to our topic, I for one refuse to believe that the exceptional sound quality of the Shure SE 846 is that easy to replicate and that a fake 846 is that hard to recognize. So, to elaborate on what I said: if it sounds great, it is the real thing. Enjoy the music and stop worrying about fakes. Unless you do not trust your ears. Then I can’t help you.

The point is that the fake represents an unconscionable theft. Of course the fake version can have a lower price, they don't need to do the research and development, the marketing, or the warrantying of the product, they simply need to figure out how to produce something close enough to get people to buy it. And they do that not through producing quality products, but through literal fraud. The counterfeiter is stealing the reputation of the original company, as well as their intellectual property and business. Your posts seem to suggest that all of that would be forgiveable, as long as the fake was really convincing. Frankly, I think that is a reprehensible attitude. Shure has worked hard and taken great financial risks to produce their products, and counterfeiters should not be allowed to piggy-back on that work. The worry about fakes is a concern about getting our money into the hands of the people that deserve it and that have invested time, energy, and innovation in making audio better, and out of the hands of people simply stealing, exploiting, and defrauding their way to a quick profit. I am alarmed that you don't seem to see the difference.

 

[csglinux]

You are quite correct.

If it sounds great, the next logical reaction, to me anyway, is to enjoy the music.

It does not seem logical to me that after i’ve Heard something that sounds great to ask myself: is a genuine or a fake?

That would be a very odd reaction indeed.

While I do not condone and much less endorse the support of counterfeits, some of the experiences posted in the forum beg new question. If the “fake” 846 sounds so good as to be nearly distinguishable from the genuine article, unless one does a carefull A/B comparison, then how good is the genuine 846 really? And if it is that easy to duplicate the quality of the 846, is the high asking price justified? After many decades as audiophile hobbyist, I have seen (heard?) too many $10,000 pairs of cables that do not sound any different from cables costing a few hundred dollars not be somewhat suspicious of price escalation.

But, back to our topic, I for one refuse to believe that the exceptional sound quality of the Shure SE 846 is that easy to replicate and that a fake 846 is that hard to recognize. So, to elaborate on what I said: if it sounds great, it is the real thing. Enjoy the music and stop worrying about fakes. Unless you do not trust your ears. Then I can’t help you.

Your two points here seem to be: 1) You can't help people whose hearing is inferior to your own and 2) if it's easy to counterfeit, it must be overpriced.
I'm sure if I were to challenge you on either point here on this public forum, you'd agree neither are a justification for counterfeiting. In which case, why introduce two totally irrelevant straw men?

The point is that the fake represents an unconscionable theft. Of course the fake version can have a lower price, they don't need to do the research and development, the marketing, or the warrantying of the product, they simply need to figure out how to produce something close enough to get people to buy it. And they do that not through producing quality products, but through literal fraud. The counterfeiter is stealing the reputation of the original company, as well as their intellectual property and business. Your posts seem to suggest that all of that would be forgiveable, as long as the fake was really convincing. Frankly, I think that is a reprehensible attitude. Shure has worked hard and taken great financial risks to produce their products, and counterfeiters should not be allowed to piggy-back on that work. The worry about fakes is a concern about getting our money into the hands of the people that deserve it and that have invested time, energy, and innovation in making audio better, and out of the hands of people simply stealing, exploiting, and defrauding their way to a quick profit. I am alarmed that you don't seem to see the difference.

Thank you for being a voice of sanity!

 

[ropie]

The point is that the fake represents an unconscionable theft. Of course the fake version can have a lower price, they don't need to do the research and development, the marketing, or the warrantying of the product, they simply need to figure out how to produce something close enough to get people to buy it. And they do that not through producing quality products, but through literal fraud. The counterfeiter is stealing the reputation of the original company, as well as their intellectual property and business. Your posts seem to suggest that all of that would be forgiveable, as long as the fake was really convincing. Frankly, I think that is a reprehensible attitude. Shure has worked hard and taken great financial risks to produce their products, and counterfeiters should not be allowed to piggy-back on that work. The worry about fakes is a concern about getting our money into the hands of the people that deserve it and that have invested time, energy, and innovation in making audio better, and out of the hands of people simply stealing, exploiting, and defrauding their way to a quick profit. I am alarmed that you don't seem to see the difference.

Please do not get personal
I think all of us agree that theft (or conterfeiting) is not a nice thing to do
And I do not read JustinTime stating the opposite.
The point is that it is very difficult to make fakes that sound as good as the originals.

I bought mine second hand and knew they were real within half a minute
I once wanted to buy second hand Sennheisers IE800. I knew the were fake within half a minute

As a rule of thumb:
sound bad= real ones with defect or fakes. Be sad
sound good= real ones wihout defect, Be happy

 

[Justin_Time]

The point is that the fake represents an unconscionable theft. Of course the fake version can have a lower price, they don't need to do the research and development, the marketing, or the warrantying of the product, they simply need to figure out how to produce something close enough to get people to buy it. And they do that not through producing quality products, but through literal fraud. The counterfeiter is stealing the reputation of the original company, as well as their intellectual property and business. Your posts seem to suggest that all of that would be forgiveable, as long as the fake was really convincing. Frankly, I think that is a reprehensible attitude. Shure has worked hard and taken great financial risks to produce their products, and counterfeiters should not be allowed to piggy-back on that work. The worry about fakes is a concern about getting our money into the hands of the people that deserve it and that have invested time, energy, and innovation in making audio better, and out of the hands of people simply stealing, exploiting, and defrauding their way to a quick profit. I am alarmed that you don't seem to see the difference.

 

[csglinux]

sound good= real ones wihout defect

That's not necessarily true.

 

[ropie]

That's not necessarily true.

Isn't it?
The last part should be: sound good = be happy

 

[Justin_Time]

Once again, you are putting words in my mouth.

1. I neither condone nor encourage counterfeit. Neither did i say that if it is is easy to cduplicate, it is OK to make counterfeit. My point was rather IF it is that easy to duplicate—this is a hypothetical statement—it would raise in my mind serious doubt about the quality of the genuine article. That is not the same as saying it is OK to counterfeit and I resent the fact that you call this view reprehensible.

2. I also stated that, to me, I seriously doubt that it is that easy to fake the high sound quality of the Shure 846, When I ordered it from Amazon’s a couple of years ago, it was very clear to me that it was noticeably better that the 535, which that I had for several years and liked a lot. So it seems to me that we should be able to tell whether or not we have a genuine article or a fake in our hands. I kept my 846:from Amazon. If I had found in any way that the sound quality was not commensurate with what I expected from a unit of this price—I.e. it could be a fake—I would have returned it to Amazon for a full refund. And no money would get into the hands of counterfeiters.

3. In my other hobby, collecting mechanical watches, a hobby far more riddled with ciunterfeits than audio. I have seen my share of counterfeit Rolex, Omega, Audemar Piguet,vPatel, etc. Outwardly, the fake watch looks nearly identical to the genuine article but as soon as you open the case and look at the movement—the heart and soul of the watch—all doubts evaporate. The counterfeit cannot duplicate the very high quality of the genuine article where it really counts. I suspect the same hold true for high-end audio. The fake 846;may look identical to the genuine Shure 846, but when you listen to the sound you should clearly be able to tell what you have bought.

So my original, simple and perhaps rather naive point was that, it your Shure 846 sounds great, enjoy it. Don’t worry so much about fakes. Perhaps , i should have added: if it were a fake you would have heard it. If that is supporting immoral counterfeiti, I give up.