[Tachikoma]

That sounds like a ground loop, so something is a little strange with the grounding in the Qutest or the wall warts.

 

[Piotr Michalak]

Guys, I've just received silicone custom shells from Ambient Acoustics in Ukraine. Here's a bit of my impressions and measurements.

There are only 3 colours to choose from (black, white and clear). I chose white and that's how it looks:



The insertion is shallow or rather normal when compared to deep-insertion Sensaphonics shells.

Also you may notice that not the whole IEM is covered in silicone, which is not the case with Sensaphonics. Thus, the latter have more isolation. But Ambient Acoustics are much smaller, compact, somewhat easier to carry and use.



Notice the long deep insertion above!

One thing is not so obvious from the shots. AA shells hold the IEM perfectly in place. It doesn't move at all, as you may see the cable is held in between silicone. This design is brilliant. On the other hand, Snugs doesn't hold the IEM well at all, when you push the shells it will move quite much. Sensaphonics is better, but KSE will still move a little bit inside when making adjustments. It does isolate better though, even if it's much bigger!

Now let's see some measurements:


They look quite similar, but Ambient Acoustics sounds more airy due to the shallower insertion, and Sensaphonics has more impact, but also sounds more "in the head".
Also notice the channel balance in AA.
You may see that Ambient Acoustics is somewhat more natural than Sensaphonics with less accentuated 1-2 kHz and that's also what I hear. There's also a nasty peak at 10 kHz, but in practice it depends on the fit and when inserted correctly I don't hear it - it probably diminishes a few dB. Note! This is diffuse field compensated and measured on cheap miniDSP EARS set, so don't treat it extremely seriously. The dip between 3-4 kHz is probably bigger than in reality due to the compensation curve and simple EARS concha simulation.

In practice I find both shells much better than Snugs from London, which also had quite big left / right channel imbalance. Ambient Acoustics have a better channel balance than Sensaphonics, though. Also, they have a better impulse response and step response! The quicker one below is AA, the differences aren't huge though:


Step response, again AA holds the membrane slightly better than Sensaphonics:

Let's also compare it to Empire Ears Zeus XR first, and Lime Ears Aether next - both great earphones:


Notice less bass in Zeus. Indeed KSE has visceral subbass. Both are great, though. KSE has better resolution and overall quality, but... I love Zeus nonetheless, especially for ADEL, which really relieves some fatigue from my eardrums and I can feel it. I love both!

Again, a close match, with a little bit less bass in Aether, but still a reference quality. It's astounding how close these flagships are in terms of FR.

Conclusion. I find Ambient Acoustics a great alternative to the expensive Sensaphonics shell. AA is rather a half-shell, or maybe a 3/4 shell. It costs 70$ + 55$ shipping in EU. Sensaphonics is $150 + 120$ shipping to the EU + $50 for any other colour than transparent (which is not "clear", mind you). AA shells look better, at least when compared to the cheapest "transparent" ones. They measure better, but Sensaphonics isolates better and has bigger impact thanks to deep insertion.

Which ones would I choose? Both.

 

[tekkster]

Guys, I've just received silicone custom shells from Ambient Acoustics in Ukraine. Here's a bit of my impressions and measurements.

There are only 3 colours to choose from (black, white and clear). I chose white and that's how it looks:

This is an incredible post. Thank you!

I was just thinking about getting new ear tips and was thinking of going the custom route.

 

[berthoud]

I’ve cross checked this thread for everything I can find in regards to comparisons to the 846. I have a few questions for anyone who has experience with both:

How does the isolation and comfort compare?

Does the kse have the same thundering bass or the 846? I’ve read that it’s comparable, perhaps less slam and more texture and detail on the KSE?

Thanks in advance,

 

[aangen]

I have both and I have always been pleased with the "olive" foam tips. Very comfortable. I had CIEMs for a short time and did not think they were an improvement in comfort or isolation.

I started with the SE530, went to the SE535, and then the SE846 and now the KSE1200. I find comfort to be so similar between all of them that I could not pick a favorite. I strongly believe the isolation while very, very good in the 846, is no match for the KSE1200. I do not know why this is, but I strongly believe it is so.

The Bass on the 846 is chubby and fun. On the KSE1200 it's not as obvious, possibly because it is so very, very fast and clean. I do not miss the bass when I am listening to the KSE1200's. And oddly enough, I am fine when listening to the 846's. Right now I am listening via a balanced cableto the 846's connected to a Pioneer XPD-300R. That is something i will never be able to do with the KSE1200. I think I'll be fine.

Owning both, (well shucks, I still use the 535's from time to time) is a good thing.

Update: I am currently listening to the KSE1200's via a Chord Mojo. There is some serious bass happening at this moment. Serious. Perhaps the KSE can match the 846. At this moment it isn't sounding shy.....

 

[berthoud]

Great, thanks for taking the time to share. Physical is the body of the KSE series smaller than 846? Fits the same?

 

[aangen]

The 846 is a flatter oval, longer overall than the KSE. Their isn't a lot of difference but I give the nod to the KSE for comfort. (In my ears at least)

 

[csglinux]

I’ve cross checked this thread for everything I can find in regards to comparisons to the 846. I have a few questions for anyone who has experience with both:

How does the isolation and comfort compare?

Does the kse have the same thundering bass or the 846? I’ve read that it’s comparable, perhaps less slam and more texture and detail on the KSE?

Thanks in advance,

I think @aangen has already covered this answer pretty well. I just wanted to add a picture. Below are (raw, uncompensated) measurements taken using a newer mic and coupler, which does a better job of mimicking the the response of a real human ear. The story is the same as that from my old Vibro Veritas coupler though in terms of relative changes (honestly, a cheap mic and a piece of garden hose would show you the important relative changes). Basically, the KSE1500/1200 has a tiny bit less sub-bass than the SE846, but a much more extended treble. Note that my current setup is: KSE1500 (no EQ) + SpinFit Cp240 tips, SE846 + SpinFit Cp800 tips + Trishd mod (this involves taking the blue filter and instead of removing the acoustic damping foam, shoving it all the way down the opposite end of the filter tube). The bass is pretty much a wash, but the clarity you get from the lower distortion and extended highs in the KSE1500 are beyond anything I've heard in any other headphone. I still use the SE846 a lot though. There's still not much to match the SE846 if you want a portable IEM (that doesn't require you also carry an electrostatic amp around with you), that fits comfortably, looks cool, has good ergonomics, and isolates well. The SE846 does roll-off the treble a bit, but as you can see, with the Trishd mod it gets out to almost 10 kHz. In an ideal world, you'd own both IEMs

P.S. @Piotr Michalak - nice work with your KSE measurements. (Looking forward to seeing more stuff from your new coupler soon!...) Those AA sleeves look, from a SQ point of view, better than my Sensaphonic custom shells. Your measurements confirm the same thing I saw/heard, which is that the SCS make the bore length so long, that they notably shift the resonance peaks (in the wrong direction). The impulse responses show this too, with a slightly longer delay/larger phase shift with the SCS.

 

[MRT-Man]

I’ve cross checked this thread for everything I can find in regards to comparisons to the 846. I have a few questions for anyone who has experience with both:

How does the isolation and comfort compare?

Does the kse have the same thundering bass or the 846? I’ve read that it’s comparable, perhaps less slam and more texture and detail on the KSE?

Thanks in advance,

I actually disagree with aangen, I found the isolation of the 846 to be significantly better than the KSE. The 846 has more electronics and stuff in the IEM itself and maybe this contributes to blocking out sound? I was using the shure olive tips with the 846 and that provided enough isolation for me. However with the KSE, I had to move to Westone tips, which are longer (maybe denser too?) to get similar isolation. But in the end, once I figured out what tips to use with the KSE, the isolation wasn't a problem.

I agree with the commentary on bass, definitely more slam with the 846 but more definition with the KSE. it's a different kind of bass, but by no means does the bass disappoint with the KSE.

 

[Focux]

DX120 nice stack size and good transport for KSE1500




^^ @Paul - iBasso

may i know where u got that alligator case from?

 

[TYATYA]

Bass of kse is not hard kick as 535 does.
Listen to gun fire sound at high volume, 535 end fast while kse will bring a tail of the sound. I cant understand this. Kse, e.stat should be faster respond and end faster. BA has more weight it can made a tail or decay.
Result is reverse what I thought.
I search for internet on respons chart of 535 and kse, to compare. Responding chart of both at 300Hz square signal show near perfect square, while on kse it has notch/peak point

 

[sonickarma]

may i know where u got that alligator case from?

3 different colours
http://shop2.dignis.cafe24.com/product/domus-shure-sha-900-kse-1500-case/125/

 

[Sp12er3]

A popular tech channel LTT did a review of the KSE1200



He's been going up the IEM game lately, From Sennheiser's flagship to flagship, to arguably the best IEM in the market right now

 

[csglinux]

Bass of kse is not hard kick as 535 does.
Listen to gun fire sound at high volume, 535 end fast while kse will bring a tail of the sound. I cant understand this. Kse, e.stat should be faster respond and end faster. BA has more weight it can made a tail or decay.
Result is reverse what I thought.
I search for internet on respons chart of 535 and kse, to compare. Responding chart of both at 300Hz square signal show near perfect square, while on kse it has notch/peak point

Hi @TYATYA, Can you post a link to those measurements?

I no longer own the 535, but here are my efforts of minimum-phase impulse comparison with the 846 and ER4XR:

The KSE has the faster initial response, but the damping and decay of the impulse isn't necessarily superior to that in the ER4XR (it looks better to me than the 846). I guess if you put anything under a sufficiently-powerful microscope, you'll find imperfections BTW, these were all measured from a Hugo 2 using the green filter (I'll re-visit with the other filters at some point). The actual time-aligned impulse is something which has to be considered for the system as a whole. If you ask the folks on the sound science boards, they'll get angry and tell you Heaviside step and Dirac delta functions don't exist in real life, and therefore can't exist in actual music recordings, and therefore you shouldn't even worry about them. I disagree vehemently! I'm free to record whatever I want on my next album. My Dirac-delta-fn album might not sell well, but that's another story IMHO, impulses or step-functions are a useful guide as to how the system will behave in more extreme situations, like sharp drum attack/decay. It looks like Chord have the issue of bandwidth limited D->A pretty much wrapped up now - 1 million taps reconstructs the original analogue signals to within 16-bit resolution. But note the catch - "bandwidth limited". Bandwidth limited systems are going to ring (including that weirdly non-physical pre-ringing) when offered something like a step function. Rob Watts had a fairly controversial slide (I'm sure it was designed to be!) in one of his recent presentations where he wrote: "Everyone says that pre-ringing is bad. Everyone is wrong.".
I've struggled a bit to understand exactly what Rob's filters are doing in the case of, for example, an impulse. I *think* he means that pre-ringing is something you want as a cue for your filters. In theory, your DAC filters could limit the total variation of the signal to avoid any form of ringing, but if you're not very careful that would also add time-smearing.

Back to the KSE - it may be that Shure reached a compromise between fast attack and treble extension. More damping (which might make the impulse look better) would likely tame the treble extension and round off the edges of sharp notes, like piano sounds.

I'd love to get @jude's thoughts/measurements on this?

 

[Piotr Michalak]

At last! Thanks to all the help from @csglinux and also Emil of LimeEars, I have finally equipped myself with a proper IEC60318-4 measurement system and learned how to measure my Sensaphonics sleeves. I really hope it will help some of you to make decisions. I still believe that a Sensaphonics full shell for KSE is superior to anything out there. Here's how it measures with my take on a really deep fit with faber-castell art eraser used as a putty for a canal and a perfect fit simulation:


Interpretation: You may see that it's really hard to measure past 10 kHz here. And I would also say that in real life it's the same: my KSE sounds better or worse depending on the day and fit. Sometimes my ears will adjust nicely, sometimes I struggle to find a perfect spot. I consider it natural to this kind of shell with a deep fit and my ears, that one day may be a little swollen and very dry on the other day - it all depends.

Also we may see that KSE with this fit are kind of slightly bassy, and slightly dark with their upper mids or lower highs. It's not a harman curve here. For example, Lime Ears Aether with bass down has less bass than KSE, but with bass up - has more of it. It's like +/- 3 dB from KSE to the north or to the south. Also both LEA and Model X have more of 3-5 kHz. Aethers have slightly more, but Model X has much more (and it resembles harman curve pretty nicely). I'm afraid I'm not currently authorised to publish these measurements, but I may be in the future.

So I would call this a neutral-dark tuning. Pretty unique and unfrequent. I certainly prefer this to neutral harsh, which is much more frequent Also consider this, that trained listeners supposedly (according to some study) tend to choose rather darker tunings:



The biggest problem with KSE is it's resonance peaks at 9-11 kHz, depending on the tips and the fit. One of the better options for managing these peaks is Comply foams (or Westone, but not Olives). Heres a comparison showing, that at least my version of Sensaphonics shell looks better in this department. There are two takes on the Comply with slightly different insertion.


Believe me, most things look MUCH worse than comply here. Comply is one of the best in attenuating this resonance.

And you won't see it on the graph I'm afraid, but Comply really sounds different. It has more air and seems more neutral in this spaciousness than Sensaphonics. But it has less bass impact, definitely, although it measures the same. At least to my ears. Maybe I can't get as good fit as my metal tube from my coupler gets. My ear canals aren't perfectly straight. And it sounds generally more dull.

Then let's revisit the Ambient Acoustics shell. Please excuse my below 500 Hz roll off here. I was completely unable to get a proper fit with my canals and my measurement device - there is no seal between the putty and this silicone. But let's focus on the highs. There is either a possibility of a nice move of the spike up to 14? kHz (remember that measurements past 10 kHz are uncertain):



Lookin good here in theory! In practice the fit is more shallow than Sensaph. and there is a possibility of a huge wall of highs between 8-10 kHz (I'm not sure if we should include 7kHz, as this would still be harman-acceptable):


So you just have to watch this and manage the insertion

Verdict: in the long run I prefer Sensaphonics shells, even if @csglinux hates them to whom I still owe much and thank for mentoring. Ambient Acoustics may still be great and are much cheaper (approximately 70 usd + 50 usd for shipment VS 150 usd + 50 usd for colour + 120 usd for shipment to EU).

Hope you KSE fans find it useful.